What now?

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What now?

Hi friends! I'm so sorry I've been MIA, I just can't seem to catch up with life lately. I miss you all terribly though and will never be gone for good, I love you all too much! I love all the fun new threads that have been started, I'll do my best to participate when I can! The kids are talking an extra long nap today, so I have a little bit of time to play!

Sorry, this is really long, but I need to vent and see if anyone has advice. Where to start? OK, we started PTing last OCTOBER. Did the 3-day thing and it worked like a charm. We had an accident here and there for a few months, but were pretty much trained. I was pumped.

But then, he regressed. When we first trained, we didn't use pull-ups or diapers or anything, just dealt with accidents. We even went diaper-free at night. As the first few months continued, we had more and more night accidents until finally I caved and started putting him in diapers (or pullups? I don't remember) only at night. The waking at night wet and cold and the disappointment was really getting to all of us. Well, fast forward a few more months and we slowly transitioned into pull-ups when out, then some days at home (after 3 or 4 poop accidents in one day), to pretty much pullups ALL.THE.FRICKEN.TIME.

During the course of all this, we've tried every possible strategy I can think of. Food rewards, reward charts, toy rewards, punishment (loss of privileges), cold showers, curling up in the fetal position crying... (OK, maybe not that one, but I've wanted to!). When we were on vacation, DH for the first time saw how often he's been crapping in his pants and was pretty hard on him with time outs and whatnot. It came to a breaking point when we were running the marathon and he was with the ILs. I guess he had a poop accident and just FREAKED when they tried to change him. I wasn't there to experience it, but it sounds like it was awful for everyone involved. Crying, screaming, you name it.

So, after talking to MIL about the episode, we had a little family meeting and decided that Pax just isn't ready. That we were going to lay off completely, not get mad when he pooped in his pullup, and his only job was to tell us if he needs changing so he won't get rashy on his bum. This seemed to help for a few days, he seemed less stressed and was able to enjoy the rest of his vacation.

Once we got home, you could tell he was using it to his advantage. He would sit in the middle of the room and crap in his diaper defiantly. I think we've still done a pretty good job not getting upset though, just changing him and moving on. We still encourage him to use the potty, but without pressure and he only does so on his own terms (such a power struggle!). It's been annoying, but fine.

Today it got even worse. Sad My gym has a program where you can drop the kids off at the child-care and leave for a few hours to run errands or whatever. I rarely take advantage, but felt like treating myself today, so I dropped them off and went shopping. Yahoo BUT...when I returned, they immediately pulled me aside and started talking in hushed voices. I guess Pax had a wet diaper and when they tried to change him he flipped out. Mind you, he and I talked about it before I left and I reminded him that they may have to change his diaper if he got it wet or dirty and that he needed to let them so he wouldn't get a sore butt. But I guess it was a colossal battle. The daycare workers' eyes were huge as they told me how strong he was and how hard he fought. He kicked, screamed, started scratching his own skin, grabbed her by the THROAT... She had to get help and two of them had to hold him down so he wouldn't hurt them or him. They were just in awe at how strong he was and how ballistic he went. Sad

I'm so sad, I feel like we broke him. He's obviously embarrassed to still be having potty issues, but he's refusing to cooperate. What the heck do we do???

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I really have no suggestions but I am very sorry you all are going through this. I hope someone on here has some good ideas (which I am sure they will).

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I can't help.. only hug...
Harrison is not potty trained at all. He's just not ready.
I guess he doesn't flip out when people change his diaper because he's crapped his pants for a full 3 years now.

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Wendy, I have MIA for a long time too and popped in today for the first time in months.

I am sorry you are having these difficulties with Pax Wendy. :hug: It is really hard to give advice when I am not there to experience it but the best I can say is that maybe you are right and he just isn't ready yet. Perhaps you could just not discuss it at all for a week and then slowly start dropping "hints" around him, things about big boys and letting him know that it is all going to be on "his terms". Maybe say things like "baby diapers" .....

I'm sorry, not great advice but I do hope you find some relief soon.

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:bigarmhug: Gosh that's tough. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I thought I was frustrated with pting. We've been at it for just over a year. Our only problem is he will not tell us when he has to go. He does great as long as we take him every few hours. Sorry, didn't mean to make this about me - just realized I should just be thankful where we are.

Anyway - I don't know what I would do? Maybe talk to him and ask him why he gets so upset about diapers. Ask if he's ready to go back to wearing big boy underwear and using the potty? Maybe start the pt process all over - go with no pullups during the day since the three day thing worked well before? I really don't know. I wish I did. :confused:

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Aw Wendy. :bigarmhug: You didn't break him, you can't force something that he isn't ready to do for whatever reason might be in a 3 year old's head. I think all you can do is what you are doing now, don't associate a poop in the pants with punishment, don't make a big deal about the poop, just change him, etc. The big thing that I think has to be really hard is if he doesn't want to be changed, nothing like a struggle when poop is involved. It does seem like to him it's got to be some sort of power struggle or control thing if he was doing okay before and then backtracked. The only suggestion I have at all is to just "ignore" it for a while longer and then revisit talking about the toilet, etc. I'm sorry, I hope someone else has some good advice. :bigarmhug:

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:bigarmhug: Wendy

I have no advice, but I'm sure other will. Just wanted to give you another :bigarmhug:

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Wyatt wouldnt PT until he was four, but when he would go in his pants it was no big deal to change him.

:bigarmhug: and no good advice.

Does he throw a fit when you or DH change him? Or just MIL and the day care? (jealous you have that available BTW)

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wendy. ((hug)) sounds like a terrible day. How sad for Pax, my heart feels for him. (that he was so upset, not that he isnt perfect on the potty)

I dont have any great advice. We are not potty trained over here. Peepee about 3/4 of the time, poop a grand total of 5 times on the potty in the last 2 months.

I feel like this- remember when it felt like your kid was the only kid who wasnt sleeping thru the night, nursing perfectly, eating veggies, talking, counting etc etc? I think potty training is the same- it will be at his own pace. Chances are pretty decent that he wont go to kindergarten in a pull up. Maybe it will be the day before, but I would place money on PTing before 5. Eventually he will decide its time, and after that it wont be an issue anymore.

I watched my SIL struggle with my nephew. I wont give details (which are different than your struggle) but they were both miserable. I promised myself I wouldnt do that to myself. Its hard, especially with everyone here having amazing potty kids (kudos to you mamas!!). But Im letting Alex lead this one. Its a battle I decided not to fight.

I agree with what others have said. Let it go, let Pax go. If he poops in his pants, tell him good job with that poop now lets change it like a big boy. Praise him when he lets you change him like a big boy. I think embarrassment over body functions is common- I mean, would you poop if I was in the bathroom with you?! I wouldnt!! I think in kids its hard to rationalize it?? I dont know. I think its a good thing to take a break from PTing for a while, let Pax forget the negative association and revisit it again in a long while.
Good luck!!

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Oh man, that just sucks. Sad I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, and it has to be just SO frustrating that he was doing so well with it initially! You know he can do it - it sounds like it's just a power struggle right now. With one of our many issues with Noelle and PT, I brought her in to the pedi when she got herself really constipated and her pedi said that potty-training issues are the #1 reason he sees kids who are 2 and 3 years old. So you are DEFINITELY not alone! And this is NOT your fault!!

My first thought was to make this as much of a non-issue as possible... but then you've already done that and it's the giant elephant in the room, anyway. I don't know, since he's reacting so violently to being changed, maybe it's time to just put him back in underwear and see if maybe you don't have too many more days of accidents? (easy to say that since I don't have to clean it all up!) Maybe make a big deal out of being a big boy and have him throw away the pull-ups? I really wish I had the magic answer!!!

The only other thing I can think of is to maybe contact that woman who wrote the 3-day method. She seemed to think of herself as quite the expert - maybe she has some ideas for you?

KUP, please. I really hope you get to the bottom of it soon!!!!! :bigarmhug:

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PTing here is not so good...she just does not care. As for boys, sometimes it is just best to stop the training and they will let you know when they are ready. For DS #1, we tried everything to potty train him (all the things you listed) and nothing worked. We actually put him back in diapers and then one day around age 4 we woke up and told us he wanted to wear big-boy underwear and that was that...never had an accident again. At this age, it is a battle of wills and it is the one thing that they can control. Hang in there!

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((((((HUGE HUGS WENDY)))))) i will have to revisit this when i am not so tired.....my post looked like a military agenda!!!!!LOL!!!!! my initial thought is take the diaper/pullups away.....because he KNOWs what he's doing.......but i am not one that likes to clean up poop......so keep the pullup and really come up with guidelines that work for all of you on the cleaning issue......his physical outburst today is just unacceptable......so he needs to know that!!!!!! to me the main issue is the physical outbursts......(((((((((( more hugs girl))))))))))))) good luck !!!!!!!

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Wendy :bigarmhug: I am so sorry for all of this I can imagine how frustrating and exhausting it is :(!

I am trying to pick my brain.. I'm sure you may have done all of these..but figured I will throw them out there lol

Can he dress/undress at all? Pants wise? I say he needs to start helping change his clothes after he goes in underwear. Even if he can't I think having him help clean up should be part of it. Landon has to help wipe up his pee on the floor, stepstool, or toilet when he is done.... I don't make it a mean thing just what happens after you pee all over the place lol. He really does try harder Smile

Obviously if he does go to the bathroom make it a huge issue with praise.

If he does go poop in the diaper, maybe bring it into the bathroom with him and tell him where it goes.

lol, I always tell Landon he will get a butt rash if he leaves his poop in (when he was pooping his pants). He wanted nothing to do with butt cream and would try his hardest (summer is a hard time to use the potty for this age) to get on the potty!

I hope it starts going in the right direction :bigarmhug:

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Hugs Wendy. I'm so sorry you are struggling with this. I agree with everyone else but at the sametime I disagree with everyone. I'm torn right down the middle with Pax's situation. On one hand he is totally capable of using the potty, recognizing when he needs to go and what to do when he needs to go, so this isn't an instance of him not being ready in that regard. KWIM? And he's already proven he is capable. But, at the sametime you never want to get into a power struggle with a 3 year old, unless you are in it to win it. From your description it does sound like a bit of defiance and maybe some regression (that was tolerated) from having a little sister enter his world.???????

ETA: I hit post before I was done.

The only thing I have is what my sister ended up doing with her 3 1/2 year old. Same situation, he was totally pt'd using the potty on his own when he needed to go, and had been for some time, until he got a little brother. Then slowly it was an accident here and one there and pretty soon he was back in dipes fulltime. She just said enough. Diapers are for babies, you can wear a diaper but you will be treated as a baby, and a baby naps every couple of hours, a baby doesn't ride tricycles....etc. He got one clean pair of underwear a day and when he messed them it was in the dipes and pjs and he was off to his room for the rest of the day. Yep it was harsh, but in 2 days he was back to deciding maybe the potty wasn't such a bad idea.

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"luangwa" wrote:

On one hand he is totally capable of using the potty, recognizing when he needs to go and what to do when he needs to go, so this isn't an instance of him not being ready in that regard. KWIM? And he's already proven he is capable. But, at the sametime you never want to get into a power struggle with a 3 year old, unless you are in it to win it.

This is where I am with your situation and where I've been with our situation (MANY times). When we have bad weeks I consider throwing in the towel but then I think of where we are and where we've been and I tell myself the only sure way we won't get to our goal is if we stop trying. So we keep going, finding what works (best) and sticking to it. Like Mel said, he's done it and he's done it well - it's not that he can't or that he's not ready It's something else that's 'holding him back' so to speak. Getting him back to where you were is the challenge. You are the Mom and you know him best so of course ultimately it's what you decide is best. :bigarmhug:

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Thanks so much for helping me think this through. I really appreciate all the advice. I started a big multi-quote, but figure you probably don't need all the detail that's rambling in my brain. I think his issues are a number of things, and I'm not sure how to address them yet, but at least I've gained some insight. Ignore the rest if you're bored, just trying to put my thoughts together! Smile Thanks again!

[LIST=1]

  • He has SERIOUS competition issues with his sister. He is so confused about whether he wants to be a big boy or a baby. We really try to give them equal attention, but it drives him crazy when Tia gets ANY attention. If she does something cute or says a new word, he butts in and starts doing the same thing. He talks in baby talk a lot, mimicking her. For the most part, we just refuse to acknowledge him when he's acting like a baby. We don't want to give him a ton of negative attention, because that still takes attention away from Tia, and that's what he really wants. Not sure what to do about this exactly, but I think it's the primary underlying cause. She was already 8 months old when we started PTing, so I'm not sure exactly why he regressed when he did (maybe when she became more mobile?), but I DO think this is part of the reason he goes back and forth on what he wants to do. We definitely try to focus on him being a big boy and how proud we are, etc etc, but he's stubborn and is more interested in out-attentioning Tia.


  • The kid STILL poops several times most days. Even though he's mentally capable of PTing, I really do think that he has accidents due to his stomach issues. I've mentioned it to every pedi we've worked with and they never have any concerns. Since he's still growing well and not in pain, they just don't care. I think maybe I need to look into this more, it certainly isn't making things easier for him. I always thought it was just because he eats so much fruit, but Tia has the exact same diet and has cute, perfect, compact little poops :), not the massive peanut-butter blowouts that Pax has nearly every day. :rolleyes:


  • He's SOOO sensitive and anger is completely counter-productive with him. I completely hear what you're saying Colleen, that we need to just lay the smack down and tell him how it's going to be. It doesn't work. Been there, done that. Cold showers, entire days in his room, etc. It just does.not.work. It always makes things worse and just makes him more averse to doing what we need him to do. It's not in a defiant way though, when we get really angry at him and give big punishments, it just breaks his confidence. He says things like "I let you down." and he just can't build himself up enough to believe he can do it. This isn't just for PTing, but for anything really. Anger/punishment just isn't effective with him.


  • He's embarrassed and going through a shy phase. I think this is the main reason for the physical outbursts. He doesn't freak when it's us (although he doesn't LIKE being changed), but I think his shyness is making him scared and/or embarrassed when someone else tries to change him. It seems like he's feeling these feelings and doesn't know what to do with them so he flips out. We did have a long talk about what choices would be better if he's feeling that way. Not sure if any of it will stick, but hopefully it'll help!


  • We haven't been as consistent as we should be. As I mentioned, we've tried EVERY method that exists (I'm sure of it! lol), but none of them have worked. Well, obviously we didn't stick with anything very long! Need to come up with a plan and stick to it.


  • He does dress/undress himself completely every day (even picks out his own clothes and chooses if he wants to wear a dipe or undies) and is required to wash out his own undies if he poops in them. It doesn't phase him. He also gets diaper rashes ("boo-boo butt") from poop in his crack, but doesn't care about that either. He loves diaper cream. :rolleyes:
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    I think you're on it with the competition, the timing of Tia becoming more mobile and the regression. I think it could very well be a negative attention seeking behavior, so I'm wondering if continuing to just make a minimal production over the accidents would help any....not negative attention, but also not positive attention, just quick and dirty let's clean you up, please help me with the task, now back to whatever we were doing before. I think right now doing anything where he'd get a negative consequence is still going to reinforce the behavior, to a 3 year old, attention is attention. I am not saying that Pax is sitting in a corner neglected all day, just that as with so many other kids with siblings, that additional child has rewired things in their head into thinking they need more undivided attention any way they can get it. I just think the key in it is that he WAS PT'd, and he did make a choice to not do it anymore, that's the key. And I think you are right on with picking a method and sticking with just that method for however long it takes. PT'ing is a difficult thing, and just as with everything else, the same thing won't work for everyone...it just so happens lots of kids here responded to the straight to undies method. Honestly, I don't think that's as normal as it taking a longer time to PT, regressions, etc. Anyway, I also totally agree with he's probably not going to be going to kindergarten in pullups, so take that looming pressure off of yourself too, I really think you guys WILL find the magic method that will eventually click.

    luangwa's picture
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    "SPCN319" wrote:

    Thanks so much for helping me think this through. I really appreciate all the advice. I started a big multi-quote, but figure you probably don't need all the detail that's rambling in my brain. I think his issues are a number of things, and I'm not sure how to address them yet, but at least I've gained some insight. Ignore the rest if you're bored, just trying to put my thoughts together! Smile Thanks again!

    [LIST=1]

  • He has SERIOUS competition issues with his sister. He is so confused about whether he wants to be a big boy or a baby. We really try to give them equal attention, but it drives him crazy when Tia gets ANY attention. If she does something cute or says a new word, he butts in and starts doing the same thing. He talks in baby talk a lot, mimicking her. For the most part, we just refuse to acknowledge him when he's acting like a baby. We don't want to give him a ton of negative attention, because that still takes attention away from Tia, and that's what he really wants. Not sure what to do about this exactly, but I think it's the primary underlying cause. She was already 8 months old when we started PTing, so I'm not sure exactly why he regressed when he did (maybe when she became more mobile?), but I DO think this is part of the reason he goes back and forth on what he wants to do. We definitely try to focus on him being a big boy and how proud we are, etc etc, but he's stubborn and is more interested in out-attentioning Tia.
  • This is Jaxon to a TEE, minus the potty regression. So very frustrating, but Oh So Normal!!! Really, it does go both ways, Abigail tries so hard to be JUST like Jax, but as parents we don't see THAT as a negative form of behavior. Why? becuase the things she is trying to do is above her age group and not below it? Yes, most of the stuff IS just normal developmental milestones that would have happened if she's an only child. But, she does try very hard to copy him. Isn't it normal human behavior for us to mimic others, even as adults? Why does it get so frustrating or seem so annoying because our 3 year old wants to see mommy's face light up like a Christmas Tree just like it does when his sister says a new vowel/consonant combination? I know I've veered off the PT subject, sorry. And, those really are questions that I'm trying to figure the answer to. I just have been thinking a lot lately on Jax and his obsession with trying to get the same response from us as Abigail gets with a babbled "up Momma".

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    Wendy, I am no expert - I HATE the PT phase - I can only offer you hugs and tell you my experience.

    With both boys, I was mortified it took them so long, but Max was four and Theo nearly four when they finally trained. I can say in retrospect it is partly a boy thing in our case - Anna has been the easiest, earliest to train - in fact, she did it herself. I know it is not true for every boy or every girl, but the bottom line is they have to be on board and determined to do what they need to do - you really can't do this for them.

    In the end, DH was the best one to train the boys; I don't know if it was a male/male thing, but it sure seemed to be. We ended up waiting until the eleventh hour, when they needed to be trained in order to start school. Struggling and enforcing just didn't work.:(

    This is probably not much help, but I would lay off completely. I know that is contrary to the advice given, that it looks like backing down, but it was the only thing that worked for us. I just don't think this is a battle the parent can win easily, and it is about the most horrible battle you can take on. :bighug:

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    I'm so sorry Wendy! :bighug: As others have said, PT is such a hard phase to go through. We're also dealing with some regression here. Tyler still has yet to poop on the potty, but we're having a lot more pee accidents if he's in undies, and he's back to wanting to wear pull ups again. It's strange because he's also recently stopped using his little potty and is (when he doesn't have an accident) peeing on the big toilet. I don't get it.

    I do think it has to do a lot with the competition with Tia. Like you and Mel, this is something that we're dealing with an a daily basis. I swear these boys are going to end up killing each other. Everything that Mel said about the dynamics with her 2 is exactly the same with my 2. I think Tyler's accidents and wanting pull ups are purely for attention. He even told me the other day that the reason why he was acting up and throwing his crayons was because I was ignoring him. Obviously I don't ignore him, but that's how he's feeling.

    I really like Jules' suggestion about making a minimal production of it. I feel like that would help the situation.

    We have issues with Tyler not wanting to change out of his wet/dirty undies or pull up. What I do is if I get push back, it's usually because he's in the middle of something, I tell him he has 5 minutes, show him on the clock where the hand will be when we take care of his mess, and go from there. That helps. If there's a mess on the floor, I just clean it up and ignore his fit that he'll throw. Yesterday he wanted to "leave the germs on the floor" when I was cleaning up his pee. I just told him very calmly that I was going to wipe it up. He screamed at me to put it back and I just told him calmly "ok, I put the germs back." Now I don't know if that was the right thing to do, because I lied and gave him his "way" but I didn't know what else to do. He pretty much calmed down right away. Weirdo.

    I wish you guys all the best of luck. This is so difficult. :confused:

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    what worked awesome with abby was picking a day and talking it up ...........start back at square one......just the talking about pting again...........put him in a pullup or diaper and forget about it.....and just go back to when your changing him......talk about ......after halloween, your gonna be such a big boy we are gonna use the potty again??? talk about 100 times a day..........and maybe it will work come oct......that should be a long enough time for pax to lose any negative associations that he has right now with pting...... and if he's not ready in oct.......try after christmas we are gonna try pting........
    i did this with abby.......i kept telling her after christmas we were getting rid of all her diapers.........and the tuesday after christmas.........she came up to me and asked if christmas was over.......and when i said yes........she took her diaper off and has been pt/d since...........she had about 6 months to mentally prepare because we talked about it ALL.DAY.LONG everyday............

    ****Shrugging shoulders****

    all 4 of mine pt'd really really easy........
    but max wasn't night time pt'd until he was 8.............it just wasn't going to happen.....and i do understand that yelling, fighting, or getting mad won't help......it took a lot for me to let it go.....

    good luck (((((((((HUGS)))))))))))

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    I am so sorry to hear that you are having to deal with this, Wendy Sad It does sound like a lot of it has to do with his jealousy towards his sister. I think it is really hard for the first child to "give up" that spot of being the center of attention. Gweny has even told me that she wanted to wear pull ups again and I just have to keep telling her that pull ups and dipes are for babies and she has beautiful princess panties, she goes on the potty like Bradley, mommom, and daddad, etc. We church up the potty like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, lol. I like the idea of letting it go for a bit and then starting over again from scratch. Maybe even taking him to pick out new big-boy undies and a new potty seat. I hope you are able to figure something out that works for you and him both because I know how frusterating potty issues can be :bigarmhug:

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    Is there something he absolutely loves to do????? Maybe make like a rewards chart and he gets to put a sticker on everytime he goes on the potty. When it gets to like 10 or something he gets to go to a fav place to eat, or splash park or something?!

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    :bighug: that must be so frustrating for all of you. I wish I had some great advice, but unfortunately I don't. Maddie had a bit of regression for about 2 weeks. She really wants to go to preschool and they don't allow kids that aren't potty trained so that was a good motivator to get her back on track. There were some really good ideas posted on here and I hope you find one that works for you guys! You are such a good mom Smile

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    I'm so sorry Wendy. I didn't read through all the responses, so I don't know what's been said, but could someone have given him alot of trouble for accidents? not you I know, and there are times I've been frustrated with Aidan during PTing and have yelled at him, I felt horrible after, but I'm wondering if anyone else, a family member, somone like a babysitter? if they belittled him for having an accident? He just seems to get super upset about it, like he's embarrassed or something. poor thing, I wish I could just go hug him.

    Aidan used to be like that at every change, that's why I had to PT him, thank goodness so far so good, but I'm not ruling out any regression, I know it can happen. He was so strong and would kick and scream and kick me in the stomach etc... it was maddening and heartbreaking at the same time.

    shefrn1's picture
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    :bighug: sooo frustrating i know!!!

    i think i need to disagree with you on one thing though.....it's great that he dresses himself and picks out his own clothes but i don't' think i would let him decide if he's gonna wear a dipe vs undies.....i personally would just say you are wearing undies and then deal with the consiquences ...i know easier said than done but i don't think it's a good idea to give him the choice of having a diaper....if he was in the beginning of potty training maybe i would say different....but he already proved to you that he was able to do it KWIM.

    we went through a regression a couple of months back and never once did i put her back in diapers....no way no how.....steve did put a pull up on her when she had some diarrhea but i wasn't there and i would have never have done that.....but anyway....took a couple of weeks and then she was back on track

    good luck

    and good to see you back Wink

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    Perhaps I'm out of my tree here, but it's just a thought..

    I think he wants attention from you and he's willing to do whatever he can to get it and has found PT to be the best way to do it. Can you set aside time for just him? Leave Tia with DH and take him to the park, or get ice cream, or go for a walk or whatever? Once he sees that he gets some undivided attention from you maybe he'll decide that he doesn't need the PT to get it and chill out..

    Belle does this when she feels she's getting left out, not necessarily with PT, but with just general obnoxious behavior. With her Ben goes to bed an hour to an hour and a half earlier than she does, so when he goes to bed its time for her and me. We go color on the sidewalk, go swimming or for a walk (if dh is home), go to walmart and grocery shop, go get an ice cream cone at mc d's.. that kind of thing. It's amazing how much better her 'tude is when I do this..

    Just a thought.

    ETA: I hope this didn't come off as my saying you ignore him. Maybe you already do this with him.. I just wanted to suggest it.

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    Thank you SO much for all the input everyone. I'm completely on board with just dropping it for now and ignoring the PT issue altogether, but it's impossible. If he'd let people change him, it would be easy, but the hard part is he won't let us ignore it when he has a fit when he needs to be changed. :dontknow: I'm sure it's just something we have to wait out, but it sucks in the process!

    "luangwa" wrote:

    This is Jaxon to a TEE, minus the potty regression. So very frustrating, but Oh So Normal!!! Really, it does go both ways, Abigail tries so hard to be JUST like Jax, but as parents we don't see THAT as a negative form of behavior. Why? becuase the things she is trying to do is above her age group and not below it? Yes, most of the stuff IS just normal developmental milestones that would have happened if she's an only child. But, she does try very hard to copy him. Isn't it normal human behavior for us to mimic others, even as adults? Why does it get so frustrating or seem so annoying because our 3 year old wants to see mommy's face light up like a Christmas Tree just like it does when his sister says a new vowel/consonant combination? I know I've veered off the PT subject, sorry. And, those really are questions that I'm trying to figure the answer to. I just have been thinking a lot lately on Jax and his obsession with trying to get the same response from us as Abigail gets with a babbled "up Momma".

    That's a really interesting way to look at this, I never looked at it that way. SO true that when Tia "copies" Pax, we love it and when he copies her we get annoyed and frustrated. I also don't know what the answer is, but it's a super interesting question.

    "toothy35" wrote:

    what worked awesome with abby was picking a day and talking it up ...........start back at square one......just the talking about pting again...........put him in a pullup or diaper and forget about it.....and just go back to when your changing him......talk about ......after halloween, your gonna be such a big boy we are gonna use the potty again??? talk about 100 times a day..........and maybe it will work come oct......that should be a long enough time for pax to lose any negative associations that he has right now with pting...... and if he's not ready in oct.......try after christmas we are gonna try pting........
    i did this with abby.......i kept telling her after christmas we were getting rid of all her diapers.........and the tuesday after christmas.........she came up to me and asked if christmas was over.......and when i said yes........she took her diaper off and has been pt/d since...........she had about 6 months to mentally prepare because we talked about it ALL.DAY.LONG everyday............

    ****Shrugging shoulders****

    all 4 of mine pt'd really really easy........
    but max wasn't night time pt'd until he was 8.............it just wasn't going to happen.....and i do understand that yelling, fighting, or getting mad won't help......it took a lot for me to let it go.....

    good luck (((((((((HUGS)))))))))))

    I'm all for waiting it out too, except he starts preschool in August. I really hope we get it figured out by then! I'm so tempted to do the "If you don't go potty, you can't go to preschool", but a teacher I know said that it's an awful thing to do because it starts school on a negative note and those kids often tend to associate school with negativity from day one. Who knows. We'll see what happens!

    "PaulaJoFSU" wrote:

    Is there something he absolutely loves to do????? Maybe make like a rewards chart and he gets to put a sticker on everytime he goes on the potty. When it gets to like 10 or something he gets to go to a fav place to eat, or splash park or something?!

    Yep, BTDT (great idea!). We had a Lightening McQueen sticker chart and he got to choose a toy, a "fun place" or a "big treat" every time we got to 10. It worked really well for a few weeks, but then he lost interest. I think part of the problem is that we're out doing fun stuff like that all the time with MOMS Club, so it's not really that "special", KWIM? My mental health can't handle staying home for an extended period of time, so I'll have to come up with something else! lol

    "Allie01979" wrote:

    I'm so sorry Wendy. I didn't read through all the responses, so I don't know what's been said, but could someone have given him alot of trouble for accidents? not you I know, and there are times I've been frustrated with Aidan during PTing and have yelled at him, I felt horrible after, but I'm wondering if anyone else, a family member, somone like a babysitter? if they belittled him for having an accident? He just seems to get super upset about it, like he's embarrassed or something. poor thing, I wish I could just go hug him.

    Aidan used to be like that at every change, that's why I had to PT him, thank goodness so far so good, but I'm not ruling out any regression, I know it can happen. He was so strong and would kick and scream and kick me in the stomach etc... it was maddening and heartbreaking at the same time.

    You know, you'd think he'd been ridiculed somewhere, but he's really never spent time with anyone other than us. Since he started PTing, he's only been with a babysitter once, for about 2 hours. The ILs watch him on occasion, but I can't imagine they made a big deal out of it (they spoil him rotten and simply can't bear to say no to him, much less yell at him). I guess he does go to the child care at the gym, they could've done something to embarrass him. I know that he's not allowed to go in the bounce house if he's wearing a diaper, maybe being called out in front of other kids has been hard?

    Several months ago, he became very shy around new people and even his friends. He says things like "They'll laugh at me if I talk to them". No idea where he got it, but that's what I mean when I call him shy. He's SUPER self-conscious, we've been working on it, but he just seems to worry a lot about what people think of him.

    "shefrn1" wrote:

    :bighug: sooo frustrating i know!!!

    i think i need to disagree with you on one thing though.....it's great that he dresses himself and picks out his own clothes but i don't' think i would let him decide if he's gonna wear a dipe vs undies.....i personally would just say you are wearing undies and then deal with the consiquences ...i know easier said than done but i don't think it's a good idea to give him the choice of having a diaper....if he was in the beginning of potty training maybe i would say different....but he already proved to you that he was able to do it KWIM.

    we went through a regression a couple of months back and never once did i put her back in diapers....no way no how.....steve did put a pull up on her when she had some diarrhea but i wasn't there and i would have never have done that.....but anyway....took a couple of weeks and then she was back on track

    good luck

    and good to see you back Wink

    Oh yeah, I hear what you're saying about giving him choice. We haven't always given him a choice, we just started doing that when we decided to drop the whole PTing thing for awhile. We wanted to take all the pressure off and let him take initiative, hence the choice. We made him wear undies for several months, but I almost lost it from cleaning out poopy undies. If it was just pee accidents, it would be one thing, but most of them are sticky, peanut butter poop, all over everything. Car seat, bed, carpet, furniture, you name it. Without the pullups, I spend half my day in poop. I can't do it anymore.

    "mist1006" wrote:

    Perhaps I'm out of my tree here, but it's just a thought..

    I think he wants attention from you and he's willing to do whatever he can to get it and has found PT to be the best way to do it. Can you set aside time for just him? Leave Tia with DH and take him to the park, or get ice cream, or go for a walk or whatever? Once he sees that he gets some undivided attention from you maybe he'll decide that he doesn't need the PT to get it and chill out..

    Belle does this when she feels she's getting left out, not necessarily with PT, but with just general obnoxious behavior. With her Ben goes to bed an hour to an hour and a half earlier than she does, so when he goes to bed its time for her and me. We go color on the sidewalk, go swimming or for a walk (if dh is home), go to walmart and grocery shop, go get an ice cream cone at mc d's.. that kind of thing. It's amazing how much better her 'tude is when I do this..

    Just a thought.

    ETA: I hope this didn't come off as my saying you ignore him. Maybe you already do this with him.. I just wanted to suggest it.

    This is completely true. His behavior is SO much better when we get some one-on-one time. It's really hard to find it, but I should make it a point to get more. We usually get a few hours together in the morning before Tia is awake, but I often spend that time online while he eats and watches Sesame Street. I think it's time I rethink that and focus on quality time with him when I can.

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    My MIL swore by a jar of M&Ms on the back of the toilet (I would probably put it somewhere else in the bathroom or Cadence would eat it all Wink ) - every time dh pottied he got an M&M...instant gratification.

    Make a game of peeing on the cheerios?

    I know this is lame and totally unhealty, but C only pooped like, once a week - so we promised her a happy meal any time she pooped on the potty! With CHOCOLATE milk.

    Hang in there, mama!

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    Hmm what about every time he goes on the potty he gets to put a quarter into the piggy bank (or 10 cents a pee 25 cents a poop LOL)? When he gets to like 10 dollars or something he gets to go shopping??

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    Landon gets 3 peanut butter m&m's every time he poops lol!

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    Wendy, I read this post yesterday and it just breaks my heart. :bighug: This must be so tough for all of you. Please do not feel like you broke him. Trust me, if I've learned anything about toddlers at this point it time, it's pretty darn near impossible to break them... they certainly can do a pretty good job of breaking us though!

    Okay, so I've read through all the responses and thought about is some and I've come up with what I think I would do if it was my child. Of course, I must also state that I have NEVER had to deal with anything like this from any of my children... YET... so feel free to just ignore me if you want to. Smile

    I would keep him in diapers/pull ups for at least another few weeks (3-4) and deal completely with his behavior first, before dealing with potty training itself. He has made this into a power struggle of sorts and before anything else, his behavior needs to be dealt with. SO... if he makes a "good decision" there can be a positive reward of sorts, and if he makes a "bad decision" there needs to be a negative consequence. You need to be consistent with the positive and the negative (according to what decision he makes) every single time! So, you set the "rules." Tell him that he does not have to use the potty at all for right now if he doesn't want to. Tell him that learning to use the potty is a hard thing to master, and it does take time. You know that he will use the potty and do really well in the future, but right now it's perfectly fine for him to be in diapers. Now... explain to him what the "rules" are for wearing diapers. Tell him that since he is in diapers now he will have to be changed when his diaper is wet or dirty. It is completely unacceptable to throw a fit or protest in anyway when if comes time to have his diaper changed. If he cooperates and has a pleasant attitude then he will get a "reward." I would keep the reward simple and fairly immediate, such as giving him an m&m for having a pleasant diaper change. I would avoid trying to do sometime like a fancy sticker chart where the big prize is several stickers away. Then, tell him that if he protests in anyway there will be a consequence. Only you can truly know what will work the best here. Whatever you decide to do, the second he starts to protest in anyway I would implement the consequence. Also, you might want to give him some warning that the diaper change is coming, because no one likes to have the rug pulled out from under them. So, if he's busy and you know that he needs a change, simply say, "in 2 minutes I am going to ask you to come to me for a diaper change." The consequence should again be something that is fairly immediate. Follow through with the positive or negative at every single diaper change. Also, do not reward a diaper change that started out bad (him protesting) with later obedience. Only give the reward when there is NO protest.

    So, in a nutshell that is what I would do. Once the behavior is under control, then you can introduce potty training again. I would use a similar reward/consequence system at that time to. Every time he is successful on the potty he gets a reward. If he does have an accident it's not a big deal, you just clean it up and tell him you are confident he will do better next time. BUT, what is not okay is to protest about being cleaned up! Again, if he were to protest about having an accident cleaned up, then there would need to be a consequence.

    Wendy, I hope this helps you out!! Again, it's what I would do, but I certainly understand if you try and find another way to deal with this situation. Whatever you decide to do, please kup on how things are going!

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    Laurie, you have been gone too Long!!!!! I've missed the wisdom and experience you include with your posts. We need you around here. Please stay and be our friend. Wink

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    "luangwa" wrote:

    Laurie, you have been gone too Long!!!!! I've missed the wisdom and experience you include with your posts. We need you around here. Please stay and be our friend. Wink

    seriously THIS

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    Coming from a mom that has not potty trained the kid...

    Miles freaks out about diaper changes with other people, too. It sucks but its also completely understandable. I've gotten calls from his preschool to come change him because he wouldn't let anyone else do it.

    One problem for him is that he is terrified of the little changing tables. Do, where were they changing him? Most change tables were not made for 3 year olds.

    Miles is more stubborn than me and I know it. That's one of the reasons that I'm letting potty be on his own terms. I don't want a fight.

    So, if it were me, I'd put him back in diapers for a while and just pretend that nothing is wrong and pretend the potty thing never happened. Work on his changing behavior if it keeps being a problem maybe leave a little potty in the corner and if he wants to explore it, let him at his leisure.

    Sounds like he needs to build up his confidence again.

    Good luck!

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    "luangwa" wrote:

    Laurie, you have been gone too Long!!!!! I've missed the wisdom and experience you include with your posts. We need you around here. Please stay and be our friend. Wink

    Yes, yes, ITA. Thanks so much Laurie. Your advice makes complete sense and is so simple. Consistency is the key. It's so easy to "know" these things, but so hard to actually do them!

    It's funny, I was thinking about this last night and I've painted Pax to be this messed up nutcase. lol He really is a pretty normal and well-adjusted kid, I'm just overanalyzing everything to try and figure out why he flipped out. Just had to put that out there. Smile

    Tia calls...I'll keep everyone posted!

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    "SPCN319" wrote:

    Yes, yes, ITA. Thanks so much Laurie. Your advice makes complete sense and is so simple. Consistency is the key. It's so easy to "know" these things, but so hard to actually do them!

    It's funny, I was thinking about this last night and I've painted Pax to be this messed up nutcase. lol He really is a pretty normal and well-adjusted kid, I'm just overanalyzing everything to try and figure out why he flipped out. Just had to put that out there. Smile

    Tia calls...I'll keep everyone posted!

    Trust me, Wendy, not a single person here things Pax is messed up. If they do, clearly they dont have a 3 year old at home. I really think this sort of behavior stuff is par for the course in the world of children. Its terrible 3's here, too. Two's were easy peasy compared to this!! Anyways, just wanted to say- I dont think anyone here thought that about Pax (or you!!)