Worldwide your argument is not working. There are only two sources for vaccines against smallpox these days: Russia and North America. Should they become needed again, the supply is insufficient. To create a new supply might (~?~) be possible, but certainly would take time.
Polio is a disease that is spread in places like Northern Nigeria where inoculation is prevented because of religious belief. For people like me who have lived through the widespread harm of this disease, this is extremely hard. Entire towns van be wiped out by a disease within two days....
Visiting cemeteries nearby in Ontario is a very depressing activity as you can see the deaths resulting , all during the same week. One such cemetery is children only.
I have friends whose family died in the The Great Toronto Polio Epidemic of 1937.
More thought on this is needed....
Ivy (4) visits Nana
For one of my nursing classes I had to watch a video about the history of the polio vaccine and why it became necessary. One of the things discussed in that film was how polio became an epidemic because people were no longer immune to it. It was a bug that was around all the time, and usually mothers would be exposed to it in adulthood and pass immunity on to their children via breastmilk. But various factors, including increased cleanliness (!), decreased breastfeeding, and others, reduced the amount of mothers who were exposed and babies who acquired passive immunity.
Since so many people weren't immune anymore, the virus started wreaking havoc, and it caused a lot of damage and deaths before a vaccine was developed.
The concept that someone will be protected from an illness when they are not, themselves, immune is called herd immunity. That means that the person who is not immune is depending on the immunity of those around them to protect them from being exposed to illnesses. So, unvaccinated children are not "germ machines" as some ignorant people claim, they are actually more vulnerable to illness because vaccinated children may be carrying around bugs that they themselves are immune to but that their unvaccinated friends are not.
I have not yet decided on the vaccination question for my own children, but I do think it's a very valid discussion and a risk/benefit debate that should happen in every family. Good luck as you do research and discover your position on vaccinating your child.
aylaanne I am VERY HAPPY to have discussions like this on my lodge!
Thanks for sharing!
I'm not an epidemiologist and don't know the specifics of viral vectors, but it seems to me (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that although unvaccinated children maybe 'more vulnerable' than vaccinated children when exposed, the risk of being exposed to the virus is very low.
Also, it seems odd to think that children who are immune to a virus (say chickenpocks) are carrying around more of the contagious virus than anyone else in the community, after all, antibodies for a virus kill off the virus - isn't that what they are for?
Maybe I missed a part of your reasoning. Could you expand?
I know that somewhere a couple weeks ago there was a HUGE discussion on this on this board so I'm going to have to go find it and read up!
I remember learning in a biochem class that some antibodies kill off the virus, and some keep it from reproducing, and some stop it from working in some way. I remember there was one "big one" that most of us are immunized against that we are probably crawling with, because the antibody just keeps it from doing anything to you. I wish I could remember which one it is!Originally Posted by sarahsunshine
Well I just got back from my doctor’s appointment. I’m wiped (didn’t sleep well last night), but just wanted to know that he’s everything I expected and more.
I had to find the place first, and was surprised to find that his practice is in the basement of a house – Toane House (he’s Dr. Toane)! You have to take your shoes off at the top of the stairs, and it has a warning about keeping the place clean so that kids don’t have to worry about playing on the floor!
The main floor has two offices – one is called “Psychotheraplay” a place for therapeutic evaluation of children with emotional and physical difficulties, and the other is a shared office with an acupuncturist, a dietician, and another alternative type medicine place.
Before I had even figured out that I was in the right place, a middle-aged fellow with a huge smile (50s?) and very welcoming demeanor said “You must be Sarah!” and shook my hand. “What can we do for you today – are we going to do a full physical, or what would you like? Do you have any concerns? You tell me.” I was shocked! I had got there 10 minutes early and was warned that he was notoriously late, and here he was already addressing me by name! I balked, I was so unprepared for that. And then I said that really, what I wanted today was just to be able to ask him a bunch of questions. HE said “Great – then that’s what we’ll do! I’ll see you in a few minutes.” He then took the previous in.
I had to fill out a couple forms (typical doctor stuff), and pee in a cup, and weigh myself (the nurse said that this was usually done by the patients by themselves as general protocol).
Then I got in his office (HE told me to go to room 6 – not the nurse/secretary)! Then he started out by handing me a sheet that said “this is my general philosophy of healthcare”. I believe in Holistic health – using traditional and non-traditional methods. My expertise is in family practice, but I consider myself to be a consultant. I encourage my patients to become knowledgeable about their issues and make their own decisions, while I’m here to give advice and make as much sense of it as I can. I know quite a bit of natural and homeopathic remedies through experience, but if you don’t feel comfortable with them, I encourage you to consult with others. I work with the other people in this building (upstairs), and know most of the alternative doctors and midwives in the city. I am not afraid to tell you if I don’t know what the problem is, and will work to figure out what it is, and therefore the best specialist to refer you to is.
We talked for a long time (1/2 hour?) about vaccines, and the benefits/costs of taking them, not taking them, or taking homeopathic vaccines. He said he actually didn’t know much about the success of homeopathic vaccines – had not seen the literature, but that in theory it sounded like a much better way to vaccinate (viruses going through the body’s natural defenses) than traditional immunization. He has lots of patients who choose not to vaccinate their children, and many who do it homeopathically. He is personally for vaccination – but not necessarily in the time frame that the province’s health people recommend, and not necessarily with all the vaccines that they recommend either!
He has four kids – three of which his wife had at home – so there’s not much to worry about it terms of his views of midwifery and homebirths! He does not have privileges at any hospital, but has frequently gone to the home of patients with newborns if there seems to be a problem and a phone call makes him concerned.
He is trying to cut down his hours, but plans to stay around for many more years. So he’s trying to work 4 days a week instead of 5 (not Friday). He does, however, have an informal after hours policy which is to call him at home, and if it sounds super urgent he’ll refer you to emergency, or an after-hours clinic, or come himself – depending on the situation.
He says that if there is an illness (high fever) and he can’t get a time to see him within 1-2 days that he’s failed as a doctor, and that should NEVER happen.
He doesn’t share the practice, so if he’s gone on holiday (which he will be for the first week of July – my due date!!!!) then he’ll have someone else to refer people to.
In terms of newborn care, he thinks that he should be the primary caregiver, but knows that in certain situations (BFing issues and stuff) that it is also important to have constant and consistent attention from someone who may have more experience – like a midwife – especially if there is already a good relationship there, so he doesn’t like pushing that boundary. He just thinks that some midwives try getting too much into family practice. OK, I can see his point, but he readily accepts that that is not what’s going to happen a lot of the time. At that point it would turn into the more traditional community advice instead of “midwifery”, and wants patients to be involved in their own healing so he deals with that!
All in all, YAY! I think it’s a good match – I just wish he lived closer!
I got an email at about 4pm from my midwife asking if tonight was OK for an appointment. Yep, it was. So at around 7:45 she showed up at our house.
Nothing unusual. Last appointment she said that baby was engaged, but it seems that baby is now floating again - but still head down. She said she wanted to do a belly painting thing before the baby was born - which could be fun - but I'd like to get my belly cast that I did about a month ago now painted first!
DH just got back from his trip to Regina (a mere 8hour drive) about an hour before she got here, so he got to hear the heartbeat. So did our friend who is staying at the house! BP was normal for me (114/63). Everything else was normal and uneventful - which I guess is good. I guess lots of people are a bit worried about labor at this point, but currently I am not in the least but worried or scared, nor is DH, so all seems to fine here too! We just need to get our stuff on the homebirth list organized so we can be somewhat ready in case junior decides to come early!
Anyway, at dinner tonight, DH was wondering what I was doing in terms of nesting. He's been nesting for a good while - but partly that's his personality, fixing things that need it. He likes doing it. I have been feeling like I should be doing SOMETHING but I really can't figure out what. We've decided that we're going to try to do the diaper free thing, so we when I ordered diapers from the cloth diaper service I got a bunch of large rectangular diapers to put baby on as opposed to wear. I did get a few that are form fitted in case someone else takes care of junior for a while and we aren't around.
I can't imagine that we need a whole lot else. Junior will probably not wear much for the first while other than maybe a blanket or some t-shirt type things, and will likely be with us - in a sling or my Mei Tai carrier. Diapers are dealt with. The change table hasn't arrived yet, but I checked and it should be here mid-June. Diapers will be delivered on June 20 for the first delivery and then they wait to hear when the baby is born before they deliver more. Some friends of ours said we could use their baby car seat because their baby was born in February and should be big enough for a larger size by the time Junior is born. I need to check on that. Oh, and yp pick up the bassinette at DH's sister's house.
Other than that, I told my mom that all I could think of is a nice, light, bathrobe and maybe some light nursing shirts, and now that I think of it, some nursing bras. But I don't want to buy any nursing bras until a couple days after the birth, otherwise they probably won't fit.
So what else is there really to do? Install the dimmer switch in the baby's room. And?
Buy a digital camera. I'm going to need photos! In fact, I want photos of the small family NOW, before dear baby arrives.
Prepare a will with your lawyer.
Finish the front garden tidy up. There won't be lots of time for that later.
Freeze a few meals for later on.
Enjoy your friends and alone time.
Take some walks.
Learn some lullabies, sing and play your piano.
Hold off on delivering baby until we get there!
PS: Did you know that my mother was born on her mother's birthday? It could happen to YOU!
Ivy (4) visits Nana
Sarah, your father is nesting too. He doesn't realize it, but I won't scare him and tell him.
He got his cell phone all fixed up so that it will work fine in Alberta.
He's decided to take his laptop and wants me to take my "mouse" etc...
He asked if I'd thought about garden care for while we'll be away. (Like I'd forget that?)
He has arranged his many meetings for before the middle of June and after the middle of July- without my prompting.
He asks lots of baby questions. He was surprised and interested that your uncle J-D was born with a MW.
Ivy (4) visits Nana
***WARNING - RANT AHEAD!!! ***
Well, I think hormones and exhaustion caught up with me yesterday. I’ve already been feeling exhausted and a little under the weather, but when DH told me yesterday that he was told by his boss that he had to go to Winnipeg (Manitoba – 2 provinces away) for a week in June, and he chose June 18-22 because it has the least conflict with everything, I had an internal fit. I told him I didn’t like it one bit, but that’s nothing compared tohow I feel right now.
Well, I know the chances of going into labor early are small (what with mom being 2 weeks late for my brother and 1 week late for me), but you just never know. PLUS, DH has been gone so much lately (1st 2 weeks of May, back for 1 week, then gone for another week and a half and came back Wednesday night). And for the few days that he has been at home, a good friend was staying with us who he hadn’t seen in over a year – so they spent until 3am talking most nights. As well, SS (not that I have anything against SS and don’t enjoy time with him!) has been with us when DH has been around. So really, I think I can count the amount of time we’ve had, just the 2 of us, on 0 fingers since the end of April! I know, I know, once baby is here we will have 0 anyway and I have to get used to it, but I wasn’t expecting that NOW!
And yes, DH will be home this week, but we have SS – which means that we will be running around all week taking him to school and Tae Kwon Do and Soccer games. Usually I go with them, or I take SS and DH catches up with us, but in the past weeks I’ve been letting them go together and staying home and resting.
On top of that, and this is weird that it matters because usually I don’t care in the least, my birthday is the 19 of June and DH won’t be here! Why would I start caring about that now? I don’t think my dad was EVER home for my birthday when I was growing up – and I was always too busy on that day anyway doing regular stuff to even think about it. I’d just have a cake, or a family day, or go to my friend’s farm on the weekend and celebrate there – or get an ice cream cone on the way home from school.
AND, June 18-22 was going to be the first week that I took off work (which is a whole other story in itself)… which may or may not be a good thing because now all of a sudden as much as I will be by myself at home and that will take getting used to, there will be NO ONE at home with me, or to look forward to seeing in the evening – and NO, I don’t want to have a family friend “baby sit” me! It seems every other time DH has left in the past month, by some coincidence a friend “shows up” who needs a place to stay for a little while.
And I know that it’s better if he goes that week than AFTER – or closer to my due date, after all, given that I’m already really tired it would be insane for him to pick one of the other 2 weeks in June when we have SS – and I’d have to take SS to school and all his other activities as well as already be exhausted. AND I know that it makes no sense to be upset about it instead of enjoying the time I have with him now! But STILL!!!! *sniffle*
And then my parents come on the 25th – which as much as I’m looking forward to that, means that DH and I still won’t have time alone – though probably they will help out with SS so maybe we will!
I think the biggest thing bugging me is that DH arranged to be gone so much in May so that he wouldn’t have to be gone in June/July, and now he has to be gone anyway!
He did tell his boss that if there was any sign of being in labor that he’d be on the next plane home… but if my labor is anything like my mom’s first labor, he would miss the birth!
I know I shouldn’t be this upset about it, but I really am. I haven’t been this upset in AGES!
It must be at least partly due to hormones and tiredness. And being behind in everything at work. And having to run all over town yesterday to try to get the details of my transfer from temporary to permanent status figured out (my boss thought that was done a month ago), and the delay probably means that I don’t get any sick leave with pay before the birth. And when I went to get my criminal record check, it seems that I have a twin with the same name and birth date who does have a criminal record (it took a while to sort that out – fortunately I still had my maiden name at the time of the offence), and then even though our friend was gone so we made supper together, DH spent most of that time on the phone with his ex-wife arranging/rearranging summer schedules, and talking with a High School ex-girlfriend who happens to be in town visiting some friends (no I’m not worried about any relationship going on, just that *I* wanted time with him!!!! And then our friend came home, and is leaving for good today, so DH *again* stayed up all night talking with him.
Anyone have a magic wand to make it all better?
I now there are many people – even on this board – that haven’t seen their DH/SO for ages so I feel a selfish complaining. Or people, like my friend Diane who’s son had to go back to the hospital today because of complications with her son’s surgery a couple days ago. Sorry guys. I realize that you actually have WAY bigger issues to deal with than this bit of folly. I’ll try to snap out of it.
Skyler Dylan 22 April 1999
Reed Aslan 17 June 2007 ~ 8 September 2008
Ivy Rayne 3 May 2009
Leo Spencer 2 Sept 2010
Forrest Reed 15 Aug 2012
Oh, sounds like an awful day!!! Yes, there are people who have it worse, but that doesn't mean you don't have a right to be upset about things that don't go right in your life--that's like a pathway down into accepting everything bad without fighting it, because there's -always- someone you can imagine who has it worse... Anyway, don't feel guilty about -feeling-. At least when you acknowledge your feelings you can make a conscious decision about what you're going to do about them!!
My DH and I have only been apart for two nights since we met almost 10 years ago. It took me a while to get used to his need for constant closeness, but I can't even imagine now, not having him there at least at some point every single day. When he went to help crew in a sailboat race a couple of years ago (I couldn't get the time off work, and it was one of those "grab it now" chances), we were separated for three days and two nights and it seemed like forever--I couldn't wait to have him back.
Hope that you're feeling less emotional now that some hours have passed; it's no fun when the hormones hit (at least, I'm assuming that's partly what it is since you say you're being upset about things that don't normally bother you).
Update us when you have a chance!