Asking for guidance and support for VBA4C

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Joined: 06/14/11
Posts: 173
Asking for guidance and support for VBA4C

Hello ladies,

Some may know me, others may not. My name is Linda, and I have given birth naturally(vaginal, med-free) to 4 children. I ended up with an emergency c-section due to my daughter turning breech. Against my wishes, they surgically delivered my first daughter. I was subjected to 3 scheduled c-sections after that....just because I was a patient with 1 prior c-section. The hospital was a small community hospital, but that didn't matter. They banned VBAC's and my doctor refused to try. He told me he would lose his license if he even let me attempt VBAC.

My DH and I had many problems with fertility, and we had 5 m/c's along the way before we conceived with the help of clomid. Our first biological child together is almost 19 months old. We are surprised to be expecting now, especially since we did not use medication this time. We consider this pregnancy a blessing and a miracle that it happened on its own.

I have been searching, emailing, and making phone calls in preperation for labor and delivery. February will be here before we know it, and we want to be prepared and have all bases covered.

I am located in Oklahoma (North Central). I have visited the OK ICAN website, but there is nothing located even remotely close to me Sad I found Midwives that work with Dr. Ryan in Tulsa I believe(or maybe they are in Oklahoma City...forgive me, I'm losing myself in locations and information at times), however, he can not do VBAC with a woman who has more than 2 prior c-sections the midwife tells me(the hospital wont allow him to). It is much harder than one would suspect when seeing the ICAN website and statistics on who has higher percentages of VBAC's versus the updated information when you call or email. It seems that things change quickly.

The midwife I emailed with said I am not a candidate to even be seen, much less delivered by any of them because I have 4 prior c-sections. Hmm, I'm lost. I need tremendous support ladies. I am trying to find information and it seems no one shares what they know. I can understand to some extent. I, myself have helped out in any situation when I saw someone in need. That is what I am asking for I guess. Someone with compassion and an understanding of how badly I need to find help. The c-sections have caused a great deal of issues for myself and my babies. Medical problems that I know where brought on from the use of the medications during surgery. None of my vaginally birthed children needed oxygen, nor did they need to be watched in the nursery for over 4 hours.....nor did my heart rate plummet and need meds to bring my heart rate back up.....my vaginal births did not cause scars to my uterus,etc.

I am open to suggestions here or privately. I will never use names or share anything that would involve anyone here or elsewhere. I am open to underground midwives as well. I just need help and support if anyone can help another mom and family.

Sorry for rambling and such a long post. I'm having a little fogginess today and having a bit harder time trying to correctly convey what I am in need of.

Thank you in advance for any help and/or information you can lend me.

Linda

Joined: 03/06/09
Posts: 1054

I am sorry that you're having so much trouble. Oklahoma is so frustrating regarding VBAC policies. I'm sending you a PM with info that might help. I really hope you are able to get the support to make the decision that is right for you!!!

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

I hope you are able to find someone who can help you! I don't know of anyone in your area, so I can't help with that, but, I once read an amazing story by a woman whose first birth was a cesarean for breech, and after 3 repeats, she went on to have 6 VBACs.You might find her story inspiring: http://treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2010/05/youve-had-how-many-cesareans.html

Joined: 05/24/05
Posts: 944

I'm in a different country, so not a lot of help in regards to policy in your area. I just wanted to lend some support. You're not likely to find a lot of research or stats in regards to having a vbac after 4 sections, because it's just not common enough to be studied. I totally understand why you'd want to avoid another section, especially given the problems you've had. Trust your body and remember that a doctor can never force you to do something you don't want to do.

zookeeper's picture
Joined: 11/19/02
Posts: 29

Congrats on your new addition! Not much help here. I have had 9 vbacs though. 3 induced in hospital. The rest homebirths. In November, I will have vbac #10 at home (if all goes well). I hope you can find some help, even if it is an "undercover" midwife! OT, but do I remember you from the large family board? Were you seveninall? If so, glad to "see" you again!

Starflyr's picture
Joined: 10/20/07
Posts: 428
North Texas ICAN

You might check out our ICAN group in North Texas. There is a doctor in Denton at Denton Presbyterian named Dr Cummings, he does VBACs on cases that NO ONE ELSE will touch - VBA3C with inverted T-incisions, for example (my doula had this one). Per him, he doesnt practice out of fear of lawyers,he fears God.

He is the "go to guy" for anyone who is outside of the "1 prior low transverse c-section" rule.

You might give him a try. I know Denton is a drive from Ok, even if you live near the border, but if your heart is set on a vaginal delivery, I think he might be your closest/best bed.

*hug*

Star

Joined: 06/14/11
Posts: 173

Erica, You are correct Smile I had logged in so very long ago and updated my info, and clicked "remember me", but when I came back(next day I think) it had logged me out of the system. I had been trying ever since then to log back in, to no avail. So, I made a new screen name and then Missy stepped in and swapped everything over to the new name for me Smile Bless her! I am thankful. I've missed all of the ladies from this site, and I'm thankful to be back...and have an account that's recognized,lol! Thank you, it's great to see you too. I'll be over to the large family board to update soon too :bigarmhug: Congrats to you on your pregnancy and how wonderful you've BTDT and can share and relate. Thank you for sharing with me.

Star, thank you for all of the information, I appreciate it more than I can say. I will see how far away he is and if that is an option. More talks with the DH Smile

Beth, I appreciate your help. So much more than words can convey! A HUGE thank you!!:bigarmhug:

I appreciate all of your responses, no matter if you are in the same country or not. All of the support that each of you are showing means the world to me, and I thank each of you for that!

jonibug's picture
Joined: 11/27/06
Posts: 781

I'm not any help but just wanted to show support as well. The only thing I can think of to help your baby if you must have a c-section is to convince the dr to let you go into labor naturally first. The contractions help squeeze excess fluid out of the baby's lungs, which is why section babies tend to need more suctioning and oxygen. As for you, I wonder if the dr would look at your history of (what sounds like) dropping BP and be more preemptive about it and give you something right before a section.

I do hope you are able to avoid a section though and have this lo naturally.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

Ok I don't have time to fully respond right now, but I will share my story with you. I pray you are able to find a supportive provider.

WonderWomanExtrodinare's picture
Joined: 05/26/07
Posts: 1192

I am not much help but wanted to offer my support that you are chosing a VBAC. I really hope you find the help you need and can have the birth you want. Hugs!!!

Starryblue702's picture
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

I won't be of much help but I definitely wanted to post and show you some support! I would be just like you are, the thought of a c-section just makes me want to cry right now. What are the reasonings that everyone (doctors, midwives) is giving you for not going along with your wishes for a VBA4C?

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

I just sent you a PM with some location-specific information! Blum 3 I'm sorry I didn't get to it earlier but I've been swamped with work.

Remember that you have three things in your favor: prior vaginal births; the recently revised ACOG guidelines which encourage thorough counseling of benefits and risks, shared patient-doctor decision making, and the importance of patient autonomy; and the law, which says that you have the right to informed refusal & cannot be forced into unwanted surgery.

I can't find the ACOG statement #115 in whole online without paying, but the summary provided by ACOG says the following recommendations that are based mainly on consensus and expert opinion (level C):

  • Women undergoing TOLAC should do so at facilities able to perform emergency deliveries and with staff immediately available to provide emergency care because of unpredictable risks associated with TOLAC.
  • When these resources are not available, women should be clearly advised regarding greater risks for TOLAC and management alternatives, and counseling and management plans should be documented in the medical record.

My very rough translation of that is, if a woman insists on VBAC against your advice, document everything, have her sign a liability waiver, and let her try or you'll get sued. Blum 3 Good luck to you!!!

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"Spacers" wrote:

I just sent you a PM with some location-specific information! Blum 3 I'm sorry I didn't get to it earlier but I've been swamped with work.

Remember that you have three things in your favor: prior vaginal births; the recently revised ACOG guidelines which encourage thorough counseling of benefits and risks, shared patient-doctor decision making, and the importance of patient autonomy; and the law, which says that you have the right to informed refusal & cannot be forced into unwanted surgery.

I can't find the ACOG statement #115 in whole online without paying, but the summary provided by ACOG says the following recommendations that are based mainly on consensus and expert opinion (level C):

  • Women undergoing TOLAC should do so at facilities able to perform emergency deliveries and with staff immediately available to provide emergency care because of unpredictable risks associated with TOLAC.
  • When these resources are not available, women should be clearly advised regarding greater risks for TOLAC and management alternatives, and counseling and management plans should be documented in the medical record.

My very rough translation of that is, if a woman insists on VBAC against your advice, document everything, have her sign a liability waiver, and let her try or you'll get sued. Blum 3 Good luck to you!!!

Exactly. And to the bolded.. no one can force you to have a c-section, even when they have a so-called VBAC ban. Having a supportive provider will really help you. I just recently tried for a vba3c. I didn't get it due to pre-e (that came on really late and fast). I switched providers 3x during my pg. I really suggest finding a capter of ICAN that is somewhat local. You could even try logging onto Mothering.com. They have the tribe section where you can ask about providers in your area. I eventually worked with a high risk OB that was 3 hours away who was vbamc supportive. They even started an induction with me using a Foley Bulb. Good luck and if you ever have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

cmljll's picture
Joined: 11/28/06
Posts: 1409

I hope you can find what you need and get the birth you want!

I remember you:) When someone mentioned your former screen name, I recognized it. We were on the Dec 09 board together. Good to hear from you!

Joined: 06/14/11
Posts: 173

Krystal,
They have only said that I am not a candidate based on having more than 2 prior sections. Mainly because of the hospital not allowing(in Tulsa) Dr Ryan to deliver VBAC after 1 c-section I believe she said. It was just a plain "no" based on that. I still have the email. I wrote to her asking for further guidance and she never returned a response. Nothing. Nada. That kind of upset me. I suppose it's an overly emotional time for me right now.....feels like brick walls are running at me. I also wrote an email to the lady of ICAN in Tulsa, but she has not responded at all either. I will call or write the director (I believe that's what she is) since I have no response yet from the other lady.

Spacers,

Thank you so very much for all of the information!! You have went above and beyond to provide information and I appreciate your time and kindness :bigarmhug:

Connie,

Yes, we shared Dec '09 together, and it is wonderful to see you again!!! I've missed everyone so much here! We moved back then and I lost internet for a long while. Once I got it back, I could not log in once the system logged me out. Since then, we have moved out of state (from TN to OK) and I've finally gotten online again. Whew, it's been a while,lol! HUGE hugs to you Smile

Christy,

Thank you so very much for sharing with me here, I do appreciate it. It's so nice to have such very supportive friends here.

Thank you, each and every one of you! You are all blessings and so very giving Smile

Linda

Joined: 03/06/09
Posts: 1054

KUP on how it goes! I'm praying you get the birth you want!

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, I don't think, is the option to get your prenatal care with an OB who isn't VBAC friendly and just quietly play along. Forget to sign the consent papers until you're past 36 weeks. This is because they legally can't abandon you if you are full term for any reason, but before then, they can transfer your care to someone else if they can't provide the service you want. At least you're getting prenatal care with someone, make sure you & baby are healthy, get an ultrasound, etc. Then when you're in labor, show up at one of the VBAC-friendly hospitals and use their resident or on-call OB for delivery, just tell them that you do not consent to them calling your OB. I would strongly recommend getting a doula if you do this, so you have someone "on your side" and are never alone even when DH has to use the restroom.