Birth belongs to women, not doctors

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momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634
Birth belongs to women, not doctors
momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

I know this one was from last fall. I don't remember it being posted here though. I thought you might enjoy (freak!) about it as a follow up to the above story.

Gotta love (HATE) this state and the idiots running it!!! This one made me so mad when it happened and it still makes me want to cry.

Here you go!

kridda_88's picture
Joined: 01/28/08
Posts: 1798

"The debate over home birth is not new. It continues to rage in states across the country as increasing numbers of pregnant women reject the invasive hospital regimen — a regimen that carries its own risks — in search of a peaceful, natural birth that respects both the process of birth and the dignity of the mother."

This is my favorite sentence and the bold is my favorite part.

kridda_88's picture
Joined: 01/28/08
Posts: 1798

The second article you posted just makes me sick. :mad:

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

Krista- when it happened, it made me want to puke and bawl and flip out all at the same time. I cannot imagine someone taking my baby away from me. What about the breastfeeding bond?! I mean, I can't imagine anything happening to me that would make me not able to bf my baby, it would make me sick, but if it was someone standing in my way, they had better come armed (better than me!)!!!! Had it been me, I would be in prison serving a life sentence for murder and I'm only a little joking about that!

heatherliz2002's picture
Joined: 02/02/08
Posts: 2273

I agree with Krista... the second article makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. Why is it that we hear so much about a woman's "choice" regarding pregnancy (i.e. abortion), but "choice" regarding how she wants to give birth results in having CPS called on her?!

Joined: 11/23/07
Posts: 870

that second article- seriously- all it is going to do is scare parents so that they DON'T get the baby checked out in the ER if they thing something is wrong! (not going to say either way on the abortion issue, but outlawing it seems to only drive people to do it in less safe, illegal circumstances, which i don't think fixes a thing)

ekcanada's picture
Joined: 05/06/09
Posts: 1707

I agree that the second article is very heartbreaking.

I wonder, however, if the mom in the first article did take a rsik by having her baby at home.

That being said, I really do give hats off the all the HB momma's out there. IF I didn't want a hospital birth, I don't think I would have any trouble trusting a MW completely.

On a side note, I never hear about the consequnces when something does go wrong in a home birth, what are the ramifications? How often are MW's held responsible?

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

You got to love this question:

"In the end it comes down to one question: Can a woman decide how she wants to give birth and whom she wishes to have attend her, or is she subject to the demands of physicians and hospitals?"

from the first article. Off to read the 2nd now.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

OK yes I have read that story before. It is from my state where homebirth attended by a direct entry midwife is illegal. They will be prosecuted for practicing with out a medical licence. The bill that was just put up in front of our legislature did not pass. It was opposed by the AMA and ACOG to name a few. Sigh! I really hope that baby is home now. Can you imagine this being a reason to take someones child. Sad

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

Here is the link to the "Bring Ruth Home" facebook page so I don't leave you all hanging on the ending.

And yes, Christy, it makes me sad to say I'm from a state that is so harshly fighting against midwives. Thanks dr's and friends, for making me feel like I will need to second guess whether something really requires a hospital transfer. Nothing like making me feel safe and trusted.

heatherliz2002's picture
Joined: 02/02/08
Posts: 2273

Thanks for posting the link to the facebook page. I can't believe it took them 5 months to return the child to the parents! It just goes to show you... this "free country" isn't quite as free as we like to think.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

What bothers me more than anything about the baby being taken away (besides the obvious) is that the right or wrong of her actions are not black and white. It's not like she gave alcohol to her 16 year old. That is clearly illegal. There are no doubts about that. Even if you think it's your prerogative to decide when your child is old enough to drink, it's illegal. You will be punished for it.

It is not illegal to have a homebirth in IL. It is illegal to be attended by a direct entry midwife, but as much as I hate to say this next line it's true, that's the midwives butt not yours. (God bless all of you midwives still practicing in the shadows in IL). BUT, as it stands what she did was not illegal, it might have been viewed as dangerous, but to take a child away for that long for something that SOME view as dangerous. If memory serves me right there are recommendations starting to come out that maybe breech vaginal births should be studied more and that maybe a c/s should not be jumped to immediately (correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I read that somewhere).

I have friends that work for DCFS. I was going to school to get my BS and on to my Masters in Social Work when I got pg with DS so I've seen and heard about parents being arrested for drugs, bailed and have their children back within weeks. One mom had a meth cooking operation in HER HOUSE WITH HER KIDS and got them back within a couple of months!!!

And yet, these parents are subjected to being separated from their NEWBORN because of something that is not a clear cut wrong!!!!

And aren't there still physicians that will attend breech births? What would've happened had this been in the hospital with an OB? Would they have lost their child? Would the OB have been investigated?

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

I know! I just don't get it. It is so sad. Sad

Joined: 11/23/07
Posts: 870

now, in most states, it is NOT illegal (i dont think its illegal in any state) to have an UNATTENDED home birth- i'd say at least it protects those who have legitimate accidents at home, so its kinda stupid to punish them for "practicing medicine without a license" when everyone involved KNEW it and doesnt think they are "practicing medicine" (unless they do carry pitocin for PPH etc, i guess that would fall into that category) but if a doula or someone similar were to make it to a friend just in time to catch, when they WERE on their way to the hospital... would that person be held liable because they are some sort of "childbirth professional"

I do want to say here- if i dont make it to the hospital that is 5 minutes away..... its probably less accident BTW.... if i'm comfortable laboring at home i might just stay damnit!

Marite13's picture
Joined: 08/07/09
Posts: 3368

My SIL lives in CO and is pregnant and is having a home birth with a midwife! I'm so happy for her! Smile

heatherliz2002's picture
Joined: 02/02/08
Posts: 2273

"momW" wrote:

What bothers me more than anything about the baby being taken away (besides the obvious) is that the right or wrong of her actions are not black and white. It's not like she gave alcohol to her 16 year old. That is clearly illegal. There are no doubts about that. Even if you think it's your prerogative to decide when your child is old enough to drink, it's illegal. You will be punished for it.

It is not illegal to have a homebirth in IL. It is illegal to be attended by a direct entry midwife, but as much as I hate to say this next line it's true, that's the midwives butt not yours. (God bless all of you midwives still practicing in the shadows in IL). BUT, as it stands what she did was not illegal, it might have been viewed as dangerous, but to take a child away for that long for something that SOME view as dangerous. If memory serves me right there are recommendations starting to come out that maybe breech vaginal births should be studied more and that maybe a c/s should not be jumped to immediately (correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I read that somewhere).

I have friends that work for DCFS. I was going to school to get my BS and on to my Masters in Social Work when I got pg with DS so I've seen and heard about parents being arrested for drugs, bailed and have their children back within weeks. One mom had a meth cooking operation in HER HOUSE WITH HER KIDS and got them back within a couple of months!!!

And yet, these parents are subjected to being separated from their NEWBORN because of something that is not a clear cut wrong!!!!

And aren't there still physicians that will attend breech births? What would've happened had this been in the hospital with an OB? Would they have lost their child? Would the OB have been investigated?

I agree that it is absolutely appalling. It sounds like a severe case of overreaction. To the bold: there absolutely are OBs who will attend breech deliveries. My father-in-law is one of them. He doesn't necessarily recommend it, and he says it should only be done by someone who has been trained to do it (which is getting harder and harder to find) because of the complications that can arise, but he has done it many times and will do it. He tries to evaluate it one mom/baby at a time. He doesn't necessarily think a c-section is the best option in every breech case.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

I think most states unassisted birth is legal. I mean how can it not be. I don't think a doula could be held liable in a case of accidental delivery since a doula is not a medical professional being paid to deliver the baby. As for breech birth Michel Odent the french ob who is a big natural birth advocate does them all the time. Has anyone seen a breech birth video? I have seen a few.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

"ekcanada" wrote:

On a side note, I never hear about the consequnces when something does go wrong in a home birth, what are the ramifications? How often are MW's held responsible?

None of the midwives around here carry liability insurance because of my state's requirement that they must defer to a supervising OB or risk losing their license. No midwives that I know of are willing to do that, so clients are responsible for finding their own back-up OB. Clients also have to sign a form stating that they understand this and promise not to sue. Midwives *can* face criminal charges if they do something illegal or criminally negligent, but that would be a fine or jail time, not monetary damages to the family.

ETA: about breech birth... it used to be that an OB was trained to deliver breech babies vaginally *before* being allowed to deliver them by c-section! Baby's position makes it a much more complicated c-section than a regular head-down c-section, so OB's were taught the technique of catching a veginal breech first, and then applied that technique to a c-section birth. Sadly, now, it's the other way 'round, which is stupid since it's been shown again & again that c-section doesn't improve outcomes when baby is in a "good breech" position. There are a few doctors here who will catch a vaginal breech, mostly in the teaching hospitals and then you have a ton of students watching :roll: but at least it's an option for some.