Losing hope for my VBAC (Baby still breech)

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OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145
Losing hope for my VBAC (Baby still breech)

I am losing hope for my VBAC. I went for an appointment at my high risk doctor last week and they said her fluids were on the lower side Diablo so they monitored me this week. Katelyn was still breech then.

On a positive note, went back today for a fluid recheck and a biophysical profile and aside from being breech STILL, she looks wonderful. Fluids are back up, at a 12!

I am now 35w1d. She is still, stubbornly breech. My DD#1 was breech too -- even still at 37 weeks when I had her via c-section. I really do not want another c-section.. but I have tried EVERYTHING.

I have been seeing a chiropractor certified in the webster technique for 3-4 weeks now, 3x a week and Katelyn is STILL breech. I've tried moxa. I've tried visualization. I've tried the cold peas -- the music at my pelvis. I've tried the breech tilt (holy uncomfortable and impossible). The last thing I have is an acupuncture appointment next Tuesday as a last resort.

Still feeling very frustrated and quickly, very quickly, losing hope.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4099

:bighug: Hang in there, you're only 35 weeks! She still has plenty of time to turn! Keep doing what you're doing, and maybe consider ordering the Hypnobabies breech script. Resist their urge to schedule an early c-section, give her plenty of time to turn. Consider allowing labor to start & see if the contractions help her turn. Basically do everything you possibly can to give her the birth you want, but be ready to give her the birth she needs if she doesn't turn.

And next time you have an ultrasound, ask two questions. First, what breech position is she in? There *are* breech positions where a vaginal birth *should* be an option for you, if you so choose. Second, how long is her umbilical cord? Many times I've heard of a baby resisting all efforts to turn, and their cord turned out to be very short; IMHO if that was my situation, I'd stop trying to turn her & begin embracing my next surgical birth.

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

ITA with everything said. After learning what I learned about the benefits to the baby of at least allowing your body to go into labor naturally, I promised that to myself. Also, like PP said, it is very important to know what type of breech. 35 weeks is SO EARLY for them to be putting pressure on you. You technically should have at LEAST another 7 weeks to consider everything. A VERY high percentage of babies turn by 38 weeks, and even more turn between then and birth. And I like the point about asking how long the cord is... obviously if there is a physical reason the baby needs to be breech, then it is what it is. Will your OB do an external version? I've heard it's painful but that it has worked for some people. KUP, and I am sorry this is all so stressful. (((HUGS)))

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4099

*smacks head* I can't believe I forgot to mention external version! Some OBs won't do an external version on a VBAC mom, for fear of rupturing the uterus, but the data doesn't support that. ACOG's own VBAC practice bulletin says that (see page 5.) And the American Academy of Family Physicians says, "External version has been used successfully in VBAC candidates without any incidence of uterine rupture," even during labor, with one study showing a reduction in the cesarean rate of 50%!

http://www.acog.org/acog_districts/dist9/pb054.pdf (see page 5)

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980901ap/coco.html

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

"Spacers" wrote:

*smacks head* I can't believe I forgot to mention external version! Some OBs won't do an external version on a VBAC mom, for fear of rupturing the uterus, but the data doesn't support that. ACOG's own VBAC practice bulletin says that (see page 5.) And the American Academy of Family Physicians says, "External version has been used successfully in VBAC candidates without any incidence of uterine rupture," even during labor, with one study showing a reduction in the cesarean rate of 50%!

http://www.acog.org/acog_districts/dist9/pb054.pdf (see page 5)

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980901ap/coco.html

GREAT info!! Thanks for sharing. I knew they have high success, but wasn't sure about for VBACs. Thanks for posting your sources too.. I'm going to have to put them in my "file" of important information I may need at a later date Wink

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

you got good advice already! I'm glad your fluid measure came back higher this time and I hope she turns for you. You still have a lot of time!

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

Fantastic advice. I agree that while I totally understand how frustrated you must feel, it IS still early and really a shame that they're stressing you out so much about it at this point. Not that there's anything wrong at this stage with trying the things you're trying, but I wouldn't lose hope just yet. The short cord issue is also a really good point...we had that situation on the June board a few weeks ago.

Good luck!!

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

Many prayers that baby turns and everything works out. Hugs hun!

DJMandyB's picture
Joined: 10/18/07
Posts: 68

No advice to add, but I am sending turn, baby, turn vibes your way.

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

Turn baby turn! I hope the acupuncture works well for you. My acupuncturist said it would take 2 or 3 visits to get a breech baby to turn, so definitely talk to him/her and see if you need some follow up visits.

I had an external version with DS at 36+4 and he turned successfully. My docs here said they wouldn't do one until 37 weeks, so you may have another couple of weeks even for that type of thing. It definitely wasn't the most comfortable procedure in the world, by any means, but it's over pretty fast.

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

Don't kick me on this -- but I don't think an external version is a good idea. I don't see it as any different from any regular medical intervention. I think there is a difference in encouraging a baby to turn, and forcing them to. Besides -- the version doesn't seem like it fits in the "natural" way of childbirth. It's force -- you know? And if there is (God forbid.. a real reason she can't or won't turn.. I'd hate to think I am posing a risk to my child by FORCING her).

Like some have said above, and a few times to me lately -- maybe there is a reason she can't turn. Whether it be a shorter cord (I've asked about this, but they seem unable to measure it), a misshapen pelvis (which they can't possibly diagnose at this point, since I am pregnant and requires an XRAY) or even something as simple as they are too small, yet. (First DD#1 was low birth weight for gestational age at 5lbs4oz at almost 38 weeks) and Katelyn seems to be following suit measuring in the 27th%.

She is breech birth, but I do not want to attempt a breech birth, nor is it something my doctor (although VBAC friendly and known for it) supports. What if I DO have a misshapen pelvis and her head gets stuck while the rest of her body dangles free? I would -- and could -- never forgive myself if anything happened to her. That with the external version risks (which seem to do more harm than good and I have rarely met anyone in which the version has stuck) I don't feel comfortable with either of those options. Besides, with my doctor, in order to have an external version, you're either having a c-section immediately afterwards or giving birth afterwards and he refuses to induce me because of the risks to VBAC patients and induction(s).

I am going swimming tomorrow at a friend's apartment, hopefully the gravity will help. Or maybe as she grows bigger and her head begins to weigh her down, she'll feel more comfortable head down. I was thinking *THINKING* of (when my doctor starts to really put on the pressure, which thankfully he really hasn't, yet) to wait until I am 39 weeks and some odd days. And if I am strongly encouraged to have a c-section (and everything I have tried has failed) to do an ultrasound a day or day of prior to surgery just so I know for sure she is still breech.

Part of me is just really struggling with feeling like I am going AGAINST nature by doing so many things to turn if she's not doing it on her own. Then part of me just REALLY wants to experience a natural birth to it's fullest. (But then I think to myself -- what if I am just genuinely GENUINELY one of the people that it's not in the cards for?)

faeriecurls's picture
Joined: 06/04/08
Posts: 790

I don't have any advice to offer you - I just want to send you tons of "turning baby" vibes! Keep doing what you are doing and I hope she turns for you - it's still early!

jolly11sd's picture
Joined: 02/02/05
Posts: 3327

I hope she turns for you. She still has a few weeks yet.

sarahsunshine's picture
Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1462

I just wanted to note that DS turned on his own at 36-37 weeks without much prodding (I think I did a bit of visualization but that’s about it). There’s still plenty of time.

As an aside (to any moderators), we have had many requests of how to turn a breech baby and I wondered if anyone could put a sticky, or at least add it to a sticky that already exists?

Turn! Turn! Turn!

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4099

Please don't think I'm kicking you when you're feeling down, I'm just not quite clear on something. You're against an external version as "forcing" something and being "unnatural" but yet you're willing to schedule a c-section? I don't get it. I would think you would want to try every single thing that is less forceful & less unnatural than having your belly cut open, even if those things are more forceful & more unnatural than just doing nothing & having a baby slide out. I really don't understand that. You don't need to try to explain if you don't want to, I just felt the need to voice that confusion because I'm guessing I'm not the only one thinking it.

A properly done external version has very low risk to mom & baby, much lower than a repeat c-section. I know a number of women IRL who have had it done successfully, although in all honesty I also know a few it didn't work for. They check baby's position and where the cord is with ultrasound before starting, and they monitor you & baby through the entire procedure. If baby or cord doesn't look good, they don't do it; if either you or baby isn't handling it well, they stop. And inducing immediately afterward isn't necessary if it's done after 38 weeks, because baby is usually big enough by then to keep from flipping back. And just FTR, in case you didn't know, being a VBAC isn't necessarily a preclusion to induction, either.

And IMHO probably the main reason you're feeling overwhelmed with having tried everything and it's not working, is that you started way too early. You're only 35 weeks, at this point you should just be starting to think about Optimal Fetal Positioning exercises. You shouldn't be worrying about chiro & acupuncture & moxa & headstands in the pool for another week & a half. Those are all good things to be doing, but your point about baby maybe being too small still is a good one. Don't be stressed about this when you don't need to be. Mountains & molehills, you know. Wink Final word, you know your baby, you know your body, and you need to trust your gut, but make sure your gut is educated with good accurate information! :bighug:

Oh, and since I didn't include a link above, here's the Hypnobabies breech script, you can buy it online & download to an MP3 player, or they can send you a disc. http://www.hypnobabies.com/mylink.php?id=4058#breechbaby

TyrantOfTheWeek's picture
Joined: 12/26/05
Posts: 1147

She has PLENTY of time. A Misshapen pelvis is also unlikely unless you have had some sort of pelvic injury or were malnourished as you were growing.
I wouldn't throw in the c-section towel just yet Wink

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"Spacers" wrote:

Please don't think I'm kicking you when you're feeling down, I'm just not quite clear on something. You're against an external version as "forcing" something and being "unnatural" but yet you're willing to schedule a c-section? I don't get it. I would think you would want to try every single thing that is less forceful & less unnatural than having your belly cut open, even if those things are more forceful & more unnatural than just doing nothing & having a baby slide out. I really don't understand that. You don't need to try to explain if you don't want to, I just felt the need to voice that confusion because I'm guessing I'm not the only one thinking it.

A properly done external version has very low risk to mom & baby, much lower than a repeat c-section. I know a number of women IRL who have had it done successfully, although in all honesty I also know a few it didn't work for. They check baby's position and where the cord is with ultrasound before starting, and they monitor you & baby through the entire procedure. If baby or cord doesn't look good, they don't do it; if either you or baby isn't handling it well, they stop. And inducing immediately afterward isn't necessary if it's done after 38 weeks, because baby is usually big enough by then to keep from flipping back. And just FTR, in case you didn't know, being a VBAC isn't necessarily a preclusion to induction, either.

And IMHO probably the main reason you're feeling overwhelmed with having tried everything and it's not working, is that you started way too early. You're only 35 weeks, at this point you should just be starting to think about Optimal Fetal Positioning exercises. You shouldn't be worrying about chiro & acupuncture & moxa & headstands in the pool for another week & a half. Those are all good things to be doing, but your point about baby maybe being too small still is a good one. Don't be stressed about this when you don't need to be. Mountains & molehills, you know. Wink Final word, you know your baby, you know your body, and you need to trust your gut, but make sure your gut is educated with good accurate information! :bighug:

Oh, and since I didn't include a link above, here's the Hypnobabies breech script, you can buy it online & download to an MP3 player, or they can send you a disc. http://www.hypnobabies.com/mylink.php?id=4058#breechbaby

You know, I don't know. I just don't feel comfortable with it. It probably doesn't make much sense of my reasoning, either. But I do not think my doctor will do a version, anyway. From what I've heard, when he does it, you're having the baby right after one way or another. So I guess it would have to be something attempted in labor -- I don't know. I just don't feel comfortable with the idea.

I started earlier (around 31w) because my doctor said that he typically doesn't start to worry until 35-37 weeks. I knew the pressure would be on when we got to it. He has said even now, as well as my high risk doctor that most babies who are breech at 35 weeks do not typically turn. I know it's still possible for her to turn.. but after a second child, and a second breech baby, it has me thinking that maybe something is wrong with ME. Does that make sense?

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"TyrantOfTheWeek" wrote:

She has PLENTY of time. A Misshapen pelvis is also unlikely unless you have had some sort of pelvic injury or were malnourished as you were growing.
I wouldn't throw in the c-section towel just yet Wink

I do not believe I ever had any sort of pelvic injury. Plus I would think with how much my chiropractor is up in every part of my bones and joints that it would be something that she could probably tell? She hasn't said and she works in a birthing center so I know we've talked about it.

.. and I DEFINITELY was not malnourished, LOL.

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

I know so many people, myself included, whose babies didn't turn until 37 plus. This baby was breech until 38 weeks. One of my good friends' second baby was breech until the week before she delivered - I think she was late so that would have brought her up to 40 weeks. I know the feeling (since I was recently there) of discouragement...but you truly do still have time.

mommys's picture
Joined: 05/08/06
Posts: 6264

Just wanted to jump in and wish you some patience (not just your own, but from your doctors Wink ) and some good thoughts! I hope she does turn!

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

"sarahsunshine" wrote:

As an aside (to any moderators), we have had many requests of how to turn a breech baby and I wondered if anyone could put a sticky, or at least add it to a sticky that already exists?

I think we could add it to the resource sticky. I believe there may already be links to the spinning babies website and Robin's vaginal breech site, but we could add some more specific info. I'll work on that.

to Allison--only you can decide what is the best course for you and your baby. I hope she turns, but if she doesn't, I hope you are still able to have a great birth experience.

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