needing support :(

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kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902
needing support :(

I've mentioned before that I suffer from pretty severe panic disorder and my anxiety is sky high right now. This is due to baby being breech and my utter terror of having a c-section. I know the panic isn't helping him or me, but I can't make it stop on my own and am not comfortable with taking tranquilizers while pg.

I need to find a way to be okay with the idea of a possible c-section. Doing my hypnobabies actually makes me feel worse now b/c I feel like it's slapping me in the face since I probably won't be able to give birth vaginally now.

I know some of you have probably faced this same issue with preparing for NCB only to discover that a c-section is required. I'd appreciate any encouragement you can provide. I just want to burst into tears and crawl into a hole right now.

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

Have you researched your area or the surrounding areas for someone who may be willing to deliver breech? My Bradley instructor suggested that there are really not many more risks associated with breech births (depending on the type of breech), but there are more risks associated with a provider who is not experienced in delivery of breech babes.

I am sorry you are going through this. I don't know what to tell you since I have similar fears of a c/s. I guess I just try to do EVERYTHING I CAN... and if the end result is still a c/s then I know that at least I was educated, and I tried.

If your LO stays breech are you going to try labor anyways? Or would they press you to schedule a c/s? I have heard of many babies turning all the way up to the very end. Keep visualizing baby turning, do the spinning babies, see if you can go to the chiropractor or do accupuncture/pressure, and research your area. The only way I know to ease the anxiety is to occupy your body and mind, and practice your relaxation.

GL!! And KUP!

klmj's picture
Joined: 11/24/06
Posts: 535

HUGS Kristen. You know I have pretty bad anxiety too.

Haven't been in your shoes exactly, but I did have a lot of worries with my pg with Preston. I kept thinking of the worst case scenario that could happen, etc etc. What helped me was to visualize having a good outcome. I focused on what I DID want to happen instead of all the things I DIDN'T want to happen. I think that, for you, it may be helpful to visualize Liam in the optimal position and a great birth experience. I don't know much about Hypnobabies so maybe you already do visualization. I found it really did help to focus on what I did want though -- it's like rewiring your thoughts to be positive instead of negative.

Also, take a deep breath. It seems like you are doing all the right things that are in your power to turn him.

I'm thinking of you and sending you TONS of head down vibes!!

When I was really full of worries my good friend, who is a doula, told me "You, my dear, will be just fine." It was just what I needed to hear. You will be fine. You are educated about the topic and doing everything you can.

kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902

I am doing everything I can, but the anxiety makes it difficult to do the positive thinking. I am already on meds to rewire my brain, but when there is actually something legitimate to worry about, my stupid brain overrides the meds and I end up panicked anyway.

As for what kind of breech he is, from what I can tell, he oscillates between transverse and diagonal breech with feet dangling. I see my MW for the first time tomorrow, I have acu scheduled for Friday and my first Webster chiro treatment on Saturday.

Keeping busy does help the anxiety, so work is a good distraction, but only when I'm teaching, not when I'm sitting here during my prep time.

cmljll's picture
Joined: 11/28/06
Posts: 1409

(((((HUGS))))) I prepared for a NCB with Ethan and ended up with a c-section before going into labor. Then I was determined to have a natural VBAC with Gabriel and ended up with another c-section before going into labor... So I understand your fears!

I was so scared of a c-section the first time because my mom and I are both highly sensitive to medicines, and she had near-fatal reactions to both a spinal and a full epi... Talk about anxiety! I had to keep the mindset of expect the best, prepare for the worst.

For now, just do everything you can to get that baby to turn! The week I had Gabriel, Wednesday he was head down but not engaged. Friday morning he was transverse. Two hours later he was head down again! I was 39 weeks and am only 5'2" so there wasn't much room to be flipping around so much but he did! Don't give up!

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

First, what position of breech is baby in? There are some positions where a vaginal breech should absolutely be an option. Too many doctors see the head up & say, "Breech!" without looking at where the legs & butt are. They can't operate without your express consent, don't give it unless you think it's the right thing to do. Your doctor will say his liability insurance won't let him do a breech delivery, well, too bad. An insurance company should never get to decide how you give birth!

Second, find a chiropractor who does the "Webster Technique." It's a very simple adjustment that releases your pelvis, which gives baby more room to turn. Also check out "Spinning Babies" for a ton of exercises to help get baby into a better position. I know a lot of people have had success with acupuncture, too.

Third, even if baby stays in a breech position that isn't safe for a vaginal delivery, remember that babies can turn during labor. Consider the possibility of allowing labor to start, let your body do that work for a while, and see if baby turns. If so, you're all set; if not, then you know at least you tried, but a surgical birth has become medically necessary.

Have you tried doing a "Fear Release" session before starting your regular HB practice? I found that helpful on a couple of occasions when I couldn't relax enough to get "into it," iykwim. If that doesn't help & the fear is becoming overwhelming, I would suggest finding a hypnotherapist who specializes in birth issues.

And finally, as much as we all want to avoid a c-section like the plague, sometimes our babies need a different birth than the birth we want to give them. If your baby needs a surgical birth, then you have one, it's plain & simple. I don't mean that to sound callous, really I don't, but sometimes we natural birthers get into this mindset that c-section = failure, when it doesn't. It means that you gave your baby the birth s/he needed. And having had two c-sections myself, I can say that they really aren't all that bad. Would I have another one without medical necessity? Never. Oh, and I recently posted on the c-sections board about birth plans, what I wanted, what I got during Weston's surgical birth, you might want to take a peek over there. You can still make it a very special birth. Good luck to you!

ETA that it looks like you answered a couple of those quetsions while I was typing, LOL!

jooniper's picture
Joined: 08/27/07
Posts: 780

Hang in there sweetie! You've got a good long while for that baby to turn yet. I also have severe anxiety problems so I hear you on that. Wish I had some advice for you, but the only thing that works for me is distracting myself.
Would you consider delivering breech if you had a qualified breech-friendly provider?
I know the idea of a c-section is so against what we've trained ourselves to think and feel about labor, but I agree with spacers- c-section does not equal failure. You can be proud of the fact that you've done all the research and all the work so you can be sure if you do get a c-section that it was the right choice. Hopefully the baby will turn- I've had THREE friends recently get their babies turned between weeks 33 and 38, so there's a lot of hope. Good luck!

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

And finally, as much as we all want to avoid a c-section like the plague, sometimes our babies need a different birth than the birth we want to give them. If your baby needs a surgical birth, then you have one, it's plain & simple. I don't mean that to sound callous, really I don't, but sometimes we natural birthers get into this mindset that c-section = failure, when it doesn't. It means that you gave your baby the birth s/he needed. And having had two c-sections myself, I can say that they really aren't all that bad. Would I have another one without medical necessity? Never. Oh, and I recently posted on the c-sections board about birth plans, what I wanted, what I got during Weston's surgical birth, you might want to take a peek over there. You can still make it a very special birth. Good luck to you!

I totally agree with this, and as far-fetched as it may seem, I was going to suggest to begin working on a c/s birthplan. That way at least you have your expectations detailed and you are actively participating in the process if it does end up having to be that way. Anxiety often comes from feeling out of control, and maybe making a birthplan will put some of that control back in your hands?

Also, will your provider attempt a version? And are you open to it? It's worth asking anyways.

(((BIG HUGS)))

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

At OHSU in Portland, Oregon, I found only one Obstetrician, Dr. Mark Nichols, with experience delivering breech, as it was once part of the training for an obstetrician and now a lost practice.

I found this here: http://breechbirthseattle.blogspot.com/2009/11/brazons-birth-story-on-loan-from-jodi.html

Not sure if that is an option... I was just going by where your location says.

ETA: She ended up birthing the baby breech at Andaluz Water Birth Center in Portland. And on their website, there is a testimonial by "Sarah" who delivered breech twins at the center:eek:

kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902

"krazykat" wrote:

I found this here: http://breechbirthseattle.blogspot.com/2009/11/brazons-birth-story-on-loan-from-jodi.html

Not sure if that is an option... I was just going by where your location says.

ETA: She ended up birthing the baby breech at Andaluz Water Birth Center in Portland. And on their website, there is a testimonial by "Sarah" who delivered breech twins at the center:eek:

This is good to know. I should feel more in control of what my options are after meeting the MW . OHSU may be an option, but Andaluz is not covered by my insurance. Neither is super close to me, but within 30-45 mins depending on traffic.

As for a c-section plan, I am going to make one if things don't change in the next 4 weeks. Obviously, if the cord is wrapped around him or something like that, I know it will be necessary. I'm still really scared though.

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

Yeah, looks like they attend home-births as well. No way you would consider paying out of pocket? I know a lot of times the home-births are much less pricey than the center. And of course, they almost ALWAYS are willing to come up with a payment plan.

Our home-birth will not be covered by our insurance, though I plan to fight for reimbursement afterwards. A lot of times they will consider covering things if their providers in the area cannot provide a particular service... I plan to use the "home-like" environment. None of the hospitals in the area can provide that, and I have anxiety documented in my medical history. It might not work, but if it does, yay me!! LOL.

I am so fearful of an unnecessary c/s at this point, I would be willing to sell lemonade, or brownies to try to raise money to avoid it ROFL That center looks AWESOME!! I wish, wish, wish, we had a facility like that... and they will even do vbacs!! I would totally put up a 2nd mortgage on our house if I had to.

If anything, you could always call and see if they can refer you to someone who might be covered by your insurance, or you could explain your situation and get their take on it. This is the way I have found the BEST information out. I have been referred from one person, to another, to another and finally found a home-birth MW willing to accept a VBAC in WV. One MW even joked that I had figured out the "secret knock" to get the information I wanted. She said the birth community is pretty tight-knit out there... but Portland looks pretty open to natural-birthing (alternative) options.

Pretty good stuff! let us know what you find out!

Oh yeah, and there is always ICAN. Check them out... lots of good referral info there as well!

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

Try to give it a couple more weeks. Blaise was breech till the 34 1/2 week appt. and he flipped. Of course I was nervous the whole time -= didn't want a c-section etc.... and everything turned out just fine. I just spent time on my hands and knees playing w/ DD, and I'm sure it helped.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

"kvo" wrote:

OHSU may be an option, but Andaluz is not covered by my insurance.

Unless you have an HMO, it would probably be covered by your insurance's "out of network provider" clause. You'd have to pay out-of-pocket and then bill the insurance for reimbursement, but you can usually get between 50% and 70% depending on your coverage. If you have an HMO policy, they aren't required to cover out of network at all. But ITA with the pp who said she'd sell lemonade or take a 2nd mortgage, hell I'd even ask my parents for a loan, to pay for it. Especially if you're in an area where it would be hard to VBAC, it might be worth it for your childbearing in the future.

kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902

"Spacers" wrote:

Unless you have an HMO, it would probably be covered by your insurance's "out of network provider" clause. You'd have to pay out-of-pocket and then bill the insurance for reimbursement, but you can usually get between 50% and 70% depending on your coverage. If you have an HMO policy, they aren't required to cover out of network at all. But ITA with the pp who said she'd sell lemonade or take a 2nd mortgage, hell I'd even ask my parents for a loan, to pay for it. Especially if you're in an area where it would be hard to VBAC, it might be worth it for your childbearing in the future.

Yeah, we aren't in the greatest place financially right now and DH and I compromised on me buying hypnobabies and hiring the doula rather than paying $4000 out of pocket. With the MW and doula, I am not worried about an unnecessary section. I know if it happens it is b/c that's the only way. You are right about the VBAC, but fortunately this will be my last child--we are doing permanent sterilization (me if c-sec; DH if not).

OHSU is an out of network hospital, so if that doctor agreed to take me at the last minute then I would still get 80% covered plus $1400 for every day I am in the hospital (AFLAC). That would be okay. At my in-network hospital, between my primary and secondary insurance and my AFLAC policy, I will have it all paid for.

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

"kvo" wrote:

Yeah, we aren't in the greatest place financially right now and DH and I compromised on me buying hypnobabies and hiring the doula rather than paying $4000 out of pocket. With the MW and doula, I am not worried about an unnecessary section. I know if it happens it is b/c that's the only way. You are right about the VBAC, but fortunately this will be my last child--we are doing permanent sterilization (me if c-sec; DH if not).

OHSU is an out of network hospital, so if that doctor agreed to take me at the last minute then I would still get 80% covered plus $1400 for every day I am in the hospital (AFLAC). That would be okay. At my in-network hospital, between my primary and secondary insurance and my AFLAC policy, I will have it all paid for.

I called the birth center here in Anchorage when I was considering staying during DH's deployment, and their MWs were CPMs (which would not be covered by my insurance), but they knew a loophole and filled me in; They had an RN who came every Wednesday, and as long as I started with her and then finished my appointment with the MWs, then all my pre-natal and post-partum care would be covered by the insurance. The only thing I would be responsible for was $2500 which was the cost of the actual birth.

I cannot stress enough how much information is to be gained by calling and asking around. Most times the actual billers know many more loopholes than we do regarding insurance policies. They handle this stuff every day. It may take some work on your part, but as we were discussing earlier about easing anxiety... this may be a great way to keep your mind occupied!!

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

I understand how you feel. Even though my OB told me by palpating that DS was head down, I had a fear of him being a surprise breech and ending up with a c/s.

Your baby still has a lot of time to turn, and most do (only 4% of babies are breech at term). Have you tried the Hypnobabies "turn your breech baby" track? http://hypnobabies.com/store/shop.php?pid=17&sid=4&cid=4&start=12

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

Hugs, Kristen. I don't want to minimize your anxiety or fears, and I think that being informed and ready for a c/s is a good idea for ALL pg moms no matter what, because you just really can never know and it's better to be prepared than surprised at the last minute.

That said, it really is way early to know whether your baby will be breech or not. I know I'm a little behind you, but my mw was extremely dismissive (she is very frank, in a good way!) when she told me the bump above my belly button was a head and I expressed concern. I said she mostly likes to hang out diagonal/transverse, and was told there is no reason for her to be in any particular position yet, and not to worry until at least 36 weeks. I know that you can't help worrying, but there really is a lot of time yet before c/s should be your assumption. I know that I can't turn off the worry entirely, either, but knowing that my caregiver is SO unconcerned does help me manage the fear when it pops up. I hope your mw is able to give you some reassurance as well.

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

You have gotten great advice and I just wanted to offer some hugs!
:bigarmhug:

My baby was not in position until around 34-35 weeks. I forget exactly. But I remember the moment he turned and it was pretty cool! I was playing piano at my church at the time and my mind was not at all on my belly, but my fingers! And when I had a m/w appt the following monday and told her, she was like "oh good, yeah I see on your chart we havn't checked for that yet." So it was so early she was pleased but not surprised.

Hang in there, hon!

kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902

Thanks everyone. I am feeling better--no longer making myself sick with panic. The chiropractor got me a bit nervous when she said we were in a hurry to get him turned by 38 weeks. I guess it's pretty typical for the hospitals to require a c-section if baby has not turned. I would be really concerned about that if I were still with my OB, but I doubt the MWs will force it until I'm at 40 weeks.

Marite13's picture
Joined: 08/07/09
Posts: 3368

Just wanted to offer some hugs and to say that your baby still has a LONG time to turn! Also, having just gone through this, I know you don't want a version either, but, a version is better than a c-section. Also, my version was SO EASY, and I think it had everything to do with the fact that I had been doing all this other stuff for three weeks prior. So good luck- I'm glad you're feeling better- I hope things continue positively!

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

Lurker:

Just an FYI for those with DH in the military. Look into Operation Special Delivery program. It is a nationwide program to provide free doula support to military moms during and after birth. Let me know if you need more information.

I had a c-section. I new from day one that I had to have one for medical reasons, so I never even thought about having a natural birth. I was scared to death, but it is not as bad as it seems. As someone said, it is not failure to have a c-section. I also know what it is like to suffer from anxiety. Once you get a thought in your mind is just keeps going and going and going, like the pink bunny. I would be happy to answer any question you have about a c-section. Sending prayers he turns around for you.

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

Glad you are doing better. I am sure having a plan helps. As far the anxiety I had some births fears earlier on in my pg and what helped me was visualizing each scenario out to an end that I was comfortable with. Even if that may not be how it would happen, it helped ease my fears and anxiety.

sarahsunshine's picture
Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1462

Hi Kristen,

Sorry you are feeling this way!

I hope you checked out the spinning babies web page, and you could also look into acupuncture. I’ve never done acupuncture, but I’d definitely try it if I was desperate! Reed was breech until 36weeks but for some reason I never was too concerned. Sure enough, by my next appointment he had turned. I don’t know whether he was just going to turn or not, but I did a bunch of visualisation (with a picture my MW gave me).

Also, I just found out that in Canada, Breech birth is recommended over a C/S by the SOGC under certain situations. Hence, be informed about what the guideline and real risks are for you and your baby and the position of your little one.

For me, I think putting together a c/s birth list would help alleviate my fears. At least I would have some control, and I’d have my MW as an advocate for me and baby.

Other than that, does your hypnobabies help at all with your anxiety? I would try to focus on hypnobabies regularly, simply to help with keeping my mind from going back to the stuff I don’t want to think about.

And, don’t focus on Pink Elephants!