So why is it that you can't be conservative and for natural birth

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Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
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So why is it that you can't be conservative and for natural birth

Sigh! I am a conservative (obvioulsy). Well in truth I am more of a libertarian. I personally think people should do whatever the heck they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. I think the government should butt out of most things actually. Especially the federal government. I am a member of the a yahoo group for my state of IL. It is pushing for legislation that would make CPM's able to practice legally. Right now they can't. Only CNM's can. It provides licensure for CPMS. There is another bill that is being presented to make birth centers legal too. I am for all of this. I think women need safe birth choices. There are risks to all birth. But nothing I have ever read proves that homebirth is less safe. Anyway I got an email today from the group essentially telling us in the group we should vote for Pat Quinn because Brady is hostile towards the bill. Sigh! I am fairly passionate as some of you already know from debates, LOL and that did not sit well with me. I couldn't keep my mouth shot obviously and I am sure I have pissed some people off. Sigh! Why can't you be conservative and for women's birth rights at the same time? I don't get it.

jooniper's picture
Joined: 08/27/07
Posts: 780

It IS curous- you'd think those who are for smaller govt would be for less interference with birth. Makes sense to me.

I do happen to know plenty of conservative NCBers. I'm pretty liberal and my midwife and I have to simply not discuss anything even mildly political because she is fiercely conservative. The other two people I know IRL who have homebirthed are very conservative, too. Of course, this may just be because I live in a very conservative area.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

Thanks! Of course I live in Obama land so that might be part of it. LOL

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

I'm a fiscal conservative with libertarian social politics and as pro natural birth as they come. My HB midwife is a born again, tattood (and totally awesome) christian who is conservative.

I've never experienced a disconnect between the two, personally.

The only thing that I could see as a potential conflict is that since the republican party tends to be pro-life, they have strong feelings on legislating what a pregnant woman can or cannot do with their body during pregnancy (talking about abortion here).....so seeing that translated into legislation surrounding birth isn't really all that surprising.

emommyof2's picture
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 310

USA politics confuses the heck out of me! My first thought is why does your politics have anything to do with your birth preferences? I mean, our healthcare system is essentially 'run' by our government but they make decisions based on medical needs/research. Then again, Homebirthing has never been "illegal" here to the best of my knowledge, just unsupported by our government health coverage, if you were willing to pay you could have a baby pretty much anywhere. Blum 3

In the last ten years or so Midwives have been granted proper healthcare provider status and are now covered by healthcare (at least in Alberta), but that has nothing to do with if our government is "conservative" or "liberal" it has to do with what the people of Alberta asked for.

And totally off topic, or at least mildly off topic... what's with the crazy bashing going on? Our politicians don't agree 99.9% of the time either but they don't make crazy commercials about it! Your elections are scary!

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 1681

I'm a conservative, born-again, home birthing, maternity RN! How is that for a mix? lol

I would say NCBer come from a pretty good mix of religious, political, educational backgrounds, at least in my experience. I really think it just boils down to who is willing to think outside the box...

cindyanns's picture
Joined: 02/20/10
Posts: 775

I also consider myself libertarian, but more leaning toward the liberal side. I wouldn't think natural birth/home birth would have much to do with politics at all, but since I've taken my birthing classes and met people who are set on natural births, it seems the vast majority are conservative. Lol Kind of interesting.

On the other hand, my Dad is also libertarian, leaning toward conservative and he kept talking to me about having a midwife cause he was convinced it was "liberal mumbo-jumbo" and I needed a "real doctor." It took quite a bit to convince him that midwives were perfectly qualified to attend to birth... Hello... That's what they do. ROFL My brother was the same, only he's extremely conservative. They both had some interesting preconceptions about midwives and natural childbirth.

Maybe it's really down the middle and we just notice the differences more cause of our own political stances? Weird.

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

I was really surprised at the mix of people passionate about NCB, and I must say I never would have known if I hadn't become a part of this community (and I'm very glad to have had my world expanded in that way!) I consider myself very liberal but I think a lot of us actually have more in common than we realize until we're forced (or wander) outside our bubbles. Both parties have gotten very far away from their original positions, and honestly I think these days it's a choice between two bad options--you just have to pick which is slightly closer to your position on the things that are most important to you. For me that's social liberalism, so I vote Democratic (although honestly I don't understand why that's not Republican--I've always been confused by the Republican party supposedly standing for smaller government but then wanting to legislate the heck out of the very most intimate, personal details of life that there are!) Honestly I think if we wiped the slate clean and started several smaller, all-new parties instead of these two unwieldy behemoths, the political landscape would look very different.

jooniper's picture
Joined: 08/27/07
Posts: 780

"cactuswren" wrote:

Honestly I think if we wiped the slate clean and started several smaller, all-new parties instead of these two unwieldy behemoths, the political landscape would look very different.

I suspect I'd have to get my liberal butt out of Texas then:) Oddly enough, I was fairly conservative until I moved here.

cindyanns's picture
Joined: 02/20/10
Posts: 775

"jooniper" wrote:

I suspect I'd have to get my liberal butt out of Texas then:) Oddly enough, I was fairly conservative until I moved here.

That's cause you were living in the Northwest. Wink Not hard to appear conservative up here! ROFL

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"emommyof2" wrote:

USA politics confuses the heck out of me! My first thought is why does your politics have anything to do with your birth preferences? I mean, our healthcare system is essentially 'run' by our government but they make decisions based on medical needs/research. Then again, Homebirthing has never been "illegal" here to the best of my knowledge, just unsupported by our government health coverage, if you were willing to pay you could have a baby pretty much anywhere. Blum 3

In the last ten years or so Midwives have been granted proper healthcare provider status and are now covered by healthcare (at least in Alberta), but that has nothing to do with if our government is "conservative" or "liberal" it has to do with what the people of Alberta asked for.

And totally off topic, or at least mildly off topic... what's with the crazy bashing going on? Our politicians don't agree 99.9% of the time either but they don't make crazy commercials about it! Your elections are scary!

I totally agree!

Oh I know what you mean about the elections. I will be SOOOOO happy when it is over. ugh!

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"Potter75" wrote:

I'm a fiscal conservative with libertarian social politics and as pro natural birth as they come. My HB midwife is a born again, tattood (and totally awesome) christian who is conservative.

I've never experienced a disconnect between the two, personally.

The only thing that I could see as a potential conflict is that since the republican party tends to be pro-life, they have strong feelings on legislating what a pregnant woman can or cannot do with their body during pregnancy (talking about abortion here).....so seeing that translated into legislation surrounding birth isn't really all that surprising.

Yeah but I am pro-life for a lot of reasons, but I feel that it infringes on the rights of the child sooo it really fits who I am. Anyway I am pro-life and for birth choices. A lot of people I know are. In my mind they aren't the same thing. Of course I really don't want a abortion debate so I will shut up now. LOL

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

Maybe it is just the women who live here in my state that I know. I talked with another doula about this and she has seen the same thing. I mean I know y'all don't know about IL politics, but I am sure you have heard of Blago. You know our govenor who was impeached for trying to sell Obama's senate seat. Well Quinn was his Lt. Govenor and he has done terrible terrible terrible things in this state. No way in heck I am voting for him. I want to vote for the libertarian candidate honestly. He best fits my views, but he won't win and Quinn can't win. I hate that I have to choose between 2 terrible candiates SIGH! The thing that kills me is that in all honesty right now there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between the parties. They all spend too much and are bought out by special interests.

On a side note if you look at the philosophy of Repbulicans and Democrats you will see that they are both about control. It is just different control. I read this political site one time that explained it. I will have to go find it. I never fall into the squarley into the Repulican side. I always teeter right on the edge between Libertarian and Conservative.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

Anyway I am pro-life and for birth choices. A lot of people I know are. In my mind they aren't the same thing.

Well, if a lot of people you know are anti abortion and pro birth choice, than you know a lot of NCB friendly conservatives! So there is proof that you can be conservative and NCB friendly! Smile

Either way, I agree that I can't reply without turning it into a debate. I will just say that it seems consistent to me, that a party who would seek to control what a woman does with her body during pregnancy could also seek to control how she births that baby. Sad, but consistent.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"Potter75" wrote:

Well, if a lot of people you know are anti abortion and pro birth choice, than you know a lot of NCB friendly conservatives! So there is proof that you can be conservative and NCB friendly! Smile

Either way, I agree that I can't reply without turning it into a debate. I will just say that it seems consistent to me, that a party who would seek to control what a woman does with her body during pregnancy could also seek to control how she births that baby. Sad, but consistent.

Well most of these women that I know I met online and I have never actually met most of them. LOL Biggrin We met on a forum called ovusoft many many moons ago. That forum tends to run more for natural birth in general so it isn't suprising. They are a great group of women though. I did finally meet one of them in person when I went to DC for the 9-12 rally last year. That is actually where I met Gina. (Potter will know who that is)

Joined: 11/23/07
Posts: 870

i'm libertarian i guess, i took a survey. i knew i didnt fit republican or democrat! i'm pro-government-get-your-sticky-fingers-out-of-my-pockets-and-my-personal-business. doesnt matter pro-choice or pro-life, you can't legislate morality and its not a government issue! gay marriage? marriage regulation was given to each STATE in the constitution, let them decide! pro or against, it doesnt matter, its not a federal issue!

healthcare? lets bring that to a vote of the people- and let the congressmen try it out before they expect us to be forced into their crappy coverage.

SaucyVidel's picture
Joined: 07/20/06
Posts: 634

Most of the NCB-ers I know in real life are conservative, most of the midwives, though, are quite liberal. And here online on sites like this I run into more liberal women running in the same circles as me (birth policy-wise) than anywhere else, but I do think a lot of it is regional. Any area with a strong Christian reform movement tends to have a lot of crunchiness with childbearing, in my experience.

There are plenty of women I just avoid discussing politics with on here, unless it is the correct area for it, because we get along swimmingly except for that Lol

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

I consider myself a conservative liberatarian also, Cindy. I've gotten more interested in politics recently (I think a lot of people have) and I've found that in general, I don't like either party because they are both in favor of too much government power, just different ways of doing it and for different reasons. I think we've gotten way to far away from our constitution. I think many Americans are probably more liberatarian than they know--we all believe in freedom from tyranny, right?

I think there are a lot of conservatives who believe families have the right to decide where to give birth. I don't think any one group should be able to claim birth choices as their issue and exclude others. There are all kinds of women who chose homebirth: there are conservative, religious women who choose homebirth because they feel led to it through prayer or find a family-centered approach to birth appealing, there are crunchy women who feel homebirth fits in with their low-tech lifestyle, and there are feminists who feel that the hospital birth model is misogynistic and use homebirth as a way to fight the patriarchy. There are some women who consider themselves some combination of the above or something else entirely.

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

"MrsMangoBabe" wrote:

I think there are a lot of conservatives who believe families have the right to decide where to give birth. I don't think any one group should be able to claim birth choices as their issue and exclude others. There are all kinds of women who chose homebirth: there are conservative, religious women who choose homebirth because they feel led to it through prayer or find a family-centered approach to birth appealing, there are crunchy women who feel homebirth fits in with their low-tech lifestyle, and there are feminists who feel that the hospital birth model is misogynistic and use homebirth as a way to fight the patriarchy. There are some women who consider themselves some combination of the above or something else entirely.

I think you're right but I think it's also why it's easy to forget that this is an issue that crosses the political spectrum...people tend to think only about their own reasons for why they think it's important and forget that other people are equally passionate but for totally different reasons. Personally, I don't care how people get here as long as they do Smile

Labels aren't good for much but creating division. I find it's best to stay open minded about people regardless of their political affiliation until I've had a chance to find out a little bit more about their specific beliefs. If someone is thoughtful and educated about their viewpoint and just doesn't agree with me, right on! It's the blind faith and hatred that get to me, and all sides fall victim to that.

batgirlandrobin's picture
Joined: 11/07/05
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"kris_w" wrote:

I'm a conservative, born-again, home birthing, maternity RN! How is that for a mix? lol

I would say NCBer come from a pretty good mix of religious, political, educational backgrounds, at least in my experience. I really think it just boils down to who is willing to think outside the box...

I think we'd get along REALLY well...I'm all those excepting the RN part! Smile

batgirlandrobin's picture
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"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

Yeah but I am pro-life for a lot of reasons, but I feel that it infringes on the rights of the child sooo it really fits who I am. Anyway I am pro-life and for birth choices. A lot of people I know are. In my mind they aren't the same thing. Of course I really don't want a abortion debate so I will shut up now. LOL

I couldn't agree more!

jooniper's picture
Joined: 08/27/07
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What's interesting is how rare it is to find a NCBer who is politically apathetic. Seems like we're the type to get informed and have our own opinions:)

Chimmy's picture
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"Potter75" wrote:

I'm a fiscal conservative with libertarian social politics and as pro natural birth as they come.

This describes me exactly. As for being a conservative and also being Pro-NCB. I dunno, maybe it's the area that I'm in but there is a HUGE mix of both liberal & conservative when it comes to NCB. I've never seen this as much of an issue. I think this is an area thing (as in, where you live) more than an over all issue Smile

mandora's picture
Joined: 07/16/07
Posts: 262

I'm with the PP who said American politics scares the heck outta me!! I've taught poli sci at the college level here, so I'm about as knowledgeable as a 'lay' person gets about my own country and our system, but I have to say, I'd be terrified to go to the US... your system seems so needlessly HUGE and full of labels and affiliations, etc.

I agree with the PP (sorry, I forgot who you were, 3 pages later!) that said that in Canada our politicians never agree either, but they don't create crazy 'anti-this-guy' campaigns (at least not to the extent that your politicians do). But we have 5 major parties to choose from, about a gazillion smaller ones, and the parties make their campaigns/platforms based on a input of their registered voters, at their yearly conventions. It's much more 'by the people' (and even THEN I feel un-represented)... I can't imagine only having 'republican' or 'democrat' (as real options) when voting! For example, though our conservative government 'personally' thinks that abortion should be illegal, we still have government health-care funded abortion options, because the majority of Canadians want to keep it that way...despite the fact that the conservatives are currently in office.

Interestingly, even our conservative government, which is often compared to your republican gov., isn't as 'conservative', politically speaking, as your democrats! Our NDP party, which we consider to be slightly left of center, you guys would consider socialist extremists!! Smile

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"mandora" wrote:

I'm with the PP who said American politics scares the heck outta me!! I've taught poli sci at the college level here, so I'm about as knowledgeable as a 'lay' person gets about my own country and our system, but I have to say, I'd be terrified to go to the US... your system seems so needlessly HUGE and full of labels and affiliations, etc.

I agree with the PP (sorry, I forgot who you were, 3 pages later!) that said that in Canada our politicians never agree either, but they don't create crazy 'anti-this-guy' campaigns (at least not to the extent that your politicians do). But we have 5 major parties to choose from, about a gazillion smaller ones, and the parties make their campaigns/platforms based on a input of their registered voters, at their yearly conventions. It's much more 'by the people' (and even THEN I feel un-represented)... I can't imagine only having 'republican' or 'democrat' (as real options) when voting! For example, though our conservative government 'personally' thinks that abortion should be illegal, we still have government health-care funded abortion options, because the majority of Canadians want to keep it that way...despite the fact that the conservatives are currently in office.

Interestingly, even our conservative government, which is often compared to your republican gov., isn't as 'conservative', politically speaking, as your democrats! Our NDP party, which we consider to be slightly left of center, you guys would consider socialist extremists!! Smile

You'd really be "terrified to go to the US?". That fascinates me! Who knew!

mandora's picture
Joined: 07/16/07
Posts: 262

I live in a border town, so I get a lot of the US political stuff sort of sweep into our municipal politics... I'm fairly politically and community active, and I just don't think I'd have the stamina to keep up with that if our system was like yours, or if I lived there.

It's strange, because I have many American friends, and the PEOPLE don't seem to be well represented by the system currently in place. It's fascinating, from the outside, but I don't think I could ever live there. Smile

Hope I haven't offended. I guess I just like my little ol' Canadian simplistic system. Smile

marymoonu's picture
Joined: 03/15/08
Posts: 2183

I think part of the problem is our system is designed to only allow 2 points of view. You have to fit into a mold of "democrat" or "republican", "conservative" or "liberal"...

The first thing that crossed my mind when I read your question was a poster I saw once in a planned parenthood (I went there for the cheap birth control pills when I was a student)... It was basically a poster listing many, many, many conservative politicians and the movements they've made against women's rights. It really does seem that our system doesn't allow for the two to mesh. I think our whole system just needs revamped.

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 1681

"batgirlandrobin" wrote:

I think we'd get along REALLY well...I'm all those excepting the RN part! Smile

Ah, but are you Canadian?? Wink

I agree with the poster who commented about the American political system and their smear campaigns. We get a lot of the TV and radio ads here and they are crazy! Seems like all you hear is a litany of what everyone has done wrong. Our elections get called and are over and done within a couple months!

batgirlandrobin's picture
Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 163

"kris_w" wrote:

Ah, but are you Canadian?? Wink

I agree with the poster who commented about the American political system and their smear campaigns. We get a lot of the TV and radio ads here and they are crazy! Seems like all you hear is a litany of what everyone has done wrong. Our elections get called and are over and done within a couple months!

Nope! I'm American all the way! Smile

OperaDiva's picture
Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 396

I feel the SAME way sometimes! I am like a lot of you, fiscally conservative, socially libertarian, pro-life (more pro-human rights starting at conceptiton), and very pro-birth options.

I agree that the government needs a major overhaul, it really is having to vote for the lesser of two evils. I would vote libertarian most of the time, but really where would that get me, since everyone else thinks it's not really an option? More people vote libertarian than did before, but it's still not high enough numbers to really make it a viable option.

brandnewmommy's picture
Joined: 05/02/07
Posts: 29

I'm in Illinois and I'm frustrated when it comes to voting. I really really really want CPMs to be licensed. But it's really hard when you have to pick and choose between a lot of different issues that are important. I've also given up on the two main parties. I will likely vote libertarian. I guess I figure if we don't start voting differently, the main two parties will always be the only options.

I'm frustrated that with CPMs and birth centers not being a legal option in IL really limits my options for my home birth. There's one CNM who does homebirths legally within a decent radius of my house. So it's not like I get to interview and pick and choose. I get to meet her and hope that it's a fit because she's my only option. I could go with a CPM practicing illegally, but that option scares me. I'd worry about what would happen if transfer should become necessary.

Anyways, not trying to hijack, just trying to say that I'm in Illinois and I completely understand and feel your frustration. It sucks having very limited options because our rights as far as birthing goes have been legislated away from us.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"mandora" wrote:

Hope I haven't offended. I guess I just like my little ol' Canadian simplistic system. Smile

Yes, it is important that one likes the political system that they live within.

And not offended, necessarily, just shocked that the US could actually be "terrifying" to someone who lives in such a like country. Everyone has different things that scare them, rational or not, I suppose.

mandora's picture
Joined: 07/16/07
Posts: 262

That's really funny that you say that - the similarity of our countries/cultures... I teach sociology at the college here, and this week's lesson is on culture. When asked to describe Canadian culture, nearly every Canadian begins with 'we're not American!' (my students included). We see ourselves as very distinctly different from the US (in terms of a lot of aspects, politics being just one).... but the more Americans I talk to, the more it's clear that you guys see us as very similar! Smile Very interesting!! I really do wonder what accounts for it? Maybe it's because you guys have more 'outside influence', so Canadians probably have a better sense of what 'American' is, vs. Americans having a sense of 'Canadian'? I know our media is no where NEAR as dominant as yours (even within Canada, at times!)... I wonder if that has anything to do with it? (totally off topic with this post, sorry guys... just a very timely discussion for me, given today's lecture topic for my students). Smile

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

I'm in IL too and also a member of the yahoo group you are referring to. I had the same thought when I saw the post about voting. It seems like we have a lot more staunch democrats in this state in general than anywhere else. I know in my area it's held over from a time long ago when the democratic party was all for the 'little man.' Now, there are more issues dividing the parties than the older generation acknowledges so they still vote democratic without really understanding the 'real' issues at hand. That is the case with every person over 65 that I know that votes democratic, my grandparents, my ILs and everyone of their friends or acquaintances. They also pass it onto their kids. I know some of my aunts and uncles vote democratic across the board just because that is what my grandparents do.

I too am a conservative and NCB advocate and feel in the minority in this state. I' glad to see from so many previous posts, that may be true here but not everywhere.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
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"mandora" wrote:

That's really funny that you say that - the similarity of our countries/cultures... I teach sociology at the college here, and this week's lesson is on culture. When asked to describe Canadian culture, nearly every Canadian begins with 'we're not American!' (my students included). We see ourselves as very distinctly different from the US (in terms of a lot of aspects, politics being just one).... but the more Americans I talk to, the more it's clear that you guys see us as very similar! Smile Very interesting!! I really do wonder what accounts for it? Maybe it's because you guys have more 'outside influence', so Canadians probably have a better sense of what 'American' is, vs. Americans having a sense of 'Canadian'? I know our media is no where NEAR as dominant as yours (even within Canada, at times!)... I wonder if that has anything to do with it? (totally off topic with this post, sorry guys... just a very timely discussion for me, given today's lecture topic for my students). Smile

Okay, I'm gonna put my ignorance out here. I know nothing about Canada or Canadians except what I've heard from other ignorant people I know. Stories like, if you live in Canada and you break your leg, the healthcare is so crappy that you might just have to walk around with that broken leg for weeks before you can get in to the doctor. Now, as an educated person, I know that is not true, but it is the kind of story that I've grown up hearing so I guess that one just stuck with me. I've never given much thought to Canada I guess. You guys just exist up there pretty quietly and we don't learn much about you in school. These are the things I "know" (the term know is used loosely) about Canada from school and life. You're healthcare sucks. It's cold up there. And I think you all speak French as a second language. Your cops ride horses. And you guys aren't trying to hop our border illegally. Some of these I say tongue in cheek cause I know it's not completely true but these are the things I grew up knowing about Canada. Now, as an adult I'm ashamed to say though that I don't have much to add to that list. I guess I just assumed you were like us but with democrats running everything (would be why I've never thought of moving to Canada). Smile :) Please don't be offended by my ignorance or American arrogance. Now I feel like I should google Canada and study up or just fly up there and take your class. I love Sociology, cultural studies and studying anything humanitarian so now I feel like I should know more about our neighbors to the North.

(sorry to hijack)

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"mandora" wrote:

That's really funny that you say that - the similarity of our countries/cultures... I teach sociology at the college here, and this week's lesson is on culture. When asked to describe Canadian culture, nearly every Canadian begins with 'we're not American!' (my students included). We see ourselves as very distinctly different from the US (in terms of a lot of aspects, politics being just one).... but the more Americans I talk to, the more it's clear that you guys see us as very similar! Smile Very interesting!! I really do wonder what accounts for it? Maybe it's because you guys have more 'outside influence', so Canadians probably have a better sense of what 'American' is, vs. Americans having a sense of 'Canadian'? I know our media is no where NEAR as dominant as yours (even within Canada, at times!)... I wonder if that has anything to do with it? (totally off topic with this post, sorry guys... just a very timely discussion for me, given today's lecture topic for my students). Smile

Yes, they are very similar. Compared to the majority of the rest of the world, of course. I think that very few Americans would ever begin to describe our culture with "We are not Canadian!", LOL.

emommyof2's picture
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 310

There are many similarities between the citizens of the USA and us crazy canucks, but to be perfectly honest the differences vastly outweigh the similarities. One of the reasons I think most Canadians will automatically start with "We're not american" is because of our own personal experiences with those of the USA. I can only imagine the people from our country that influence the american perspective on Canadians, but our perspective has been skewed by those that we're interacting with.

Think of it this way, My daughter is 4 and just recently actually started paying attention to TV in general (before it was just a box that made noise while she was playing) And she's been asking more and more questions, we happen to get a lot of american TV up here. She's asked why those people are all so angry (in reference to the political ads we see from the states) and was actually scared by one ad! We may live in a city of over a million people, but the violence and other experiences she sees on american tv is VERY foreign to her. Your politics is only one aspect of a completely different lifestyle/ideals/life goal/community, for a country that maintains the separation of church and state, the USA is by far one of the most religion touting countries out there. (Again of those that separate church and state) These small things combined with what we hear and see of american politics/tv/news does serve to terrify the heck out of most average Canadians. Add to that some of the more vocal gun-toting conservative Americans that immigrate up to Alberta and then spend all their time telling us how wrong we are... and its a wonder our two nations get on as well as we do. (and yes I'm sure there are some liberal, socialist hippies that invade the southern states and talk about how much better Canada is... it does work both ways Biggrin )

And I'm rambling again... silly pregger brain... what was I talking about? Blum 3 *goes off to drink some coffee to jumpstart her brain again*

mandora's picture
Joined: 07/16/07
Posts: 262

Just so you can add to your 'Canadian knowledge' Smile :) (or, to hijack the thread a bit more...)

You're healthcare sucks. -nope. Smile I have never waited longer than a couple of hours to get care, and even then, it's because it wasn't important in the scheme of triage (it was a weird rash, or I just had a cough or something). When I hemorrhaged after my miscarriage, I walked into emerg and was in the ER, on a bed, with an IV within 10 minutes. If I need to make an appointment with my family doc I can do so within the same day usually. Midwifery and homebirth are covered here (in Ontario anyway...some provinces it isn't and you have to pay out of pocket, but that's changing). We don't pay for any services (just prescriptions). I've never known (or even HEARD of) anyone who has a story like what you're describing, but for some reason, many many americans (friends of mine included) think it's the norm.

And I live in a rural area... our healthcare services are considered sub-par by the standard of the rest of the province/country.

It's cold up there. - sometimes, yes. Smile But not ALL of Canada, (in parts of BC we grow peaches!). The coasts rarely see snow. In the summer where I live (northern ontario) we get pretty consistent temps of 80-90F.... in the winter it's usually around 0F. That's from say late Dec to early March.

And I think you all speak French as a second language. -sadly, no. If you want a government job you need to speak french, but only like 10% of our population actually DOES.

Your cops ride horses. -only for special occasions or on parade days and stuff. I actually have a friend who's an RCMP officer (or 'mounty') and he's only been on horseback twice...once was his graduation, and the other was a parade. Most of the time he's in a cruiser. Smile

And you guys aren't trying to hop our border illegally -not usually.... although I don't know why I would.... no free health care!! HA!! Smile (I kid...)

I think it's only normal though, that you wouldn't have as much knowledge of our culture...we don't export it like you guys. We get US tv here...US magazines, books, etc etc.... when was the last time you watched Canadian tv? Wink

ETA: ALSO - right now, it's actually the conservative gov. in charge! Not our version of the democrats (who would be the liberals). Although, they're a minority gov so nothing they do gets passed, and they're not as conservative on social issues as US republicans (they're more fiscal conservative, socially sort of middle of the road).

brandnewmommy's picture
Joined: 05/02/07
Posts: 29

This has been really interesting. Personally I've never bought into the lie that Canadian healthcare sucks. If that's true, why do all of the Canadian women that I run into in my online mommy groups seem perfectly content with their care. Also, Canadian maternity leave has made me seriously want to move to Canada. I admit that the cold scares me off. Although, after hearing you describe it, it sounds like I've got it worse here in the midwest. Midwestern winters are harsh and LONG! But I really hope to be in NW US someday. I guess then I'd be a close neighbor at least. But still without paid maternity leave probably! Sad

mandora's picture
Joined: 07/16/07
Posts: 262

Oh yeah, midwestern US winters are MUCH worse than the majority of the populated areas of Canada. There are many winters when southern ontario doesn't even see much more than a couple degrees below zero (C)...so like, 30 or so F.

TyrantOfTheWeek's picture
Joined: 12/26/05
Posts: 1147

I am almost glad homebirth midwifery is illegal in GA. I get awesome, low cost maternity care and my midwife can safely do things at my home that would otherwise not be allowed if she were affiliated with a hospital or had malpractice insurance to abide by. She will do HBACS, twin vaginal births, breech births, etc with no Big Brothers telling her what to do. I get really sad when I read on here about women getting "risked out" of their midwife practices for stupid things like going "overdue" or whatever. With my midwife, there really isn't such thing.

And I so want to move to Canada. I have heard nothing but awesomeness about it. Well, except the cold/snow.

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

Mindie--I can see what you're saying about the advantage of midwifery being underground, but I think the biggest disadvantage is how difficult it makes it to transition from midwifery care to obstetric care if it is necessary because of the lack of collaboration and the hostile attitude towards homebirth among medical providers. I've read stories where it has to be kept secret that the midwife is a midwife and the birth was a planned homebirth (Ayelet/tanismom's story of her planned homebirth turned hospital transfer in Isreal comes to mind--should be in the 2009 lodges--as well as a story recounted in Jennifer Block's book Pushed) and I think that has a potential to cause problems for moms and babies in a real emergency.

TyrantOfTheWeek's picture
Joined: 12/26/05
Posts: 1147

"MrsMangoBabe" wrote:

Mindie--I can see what you're saying about the advantage of midwifery being underground, but I think the biggest disadvantage is how difficult it makes it to transition from midwifery care to obstetric care if it is necessary because of the lack of collaboration and the hostile attitude towards homebirth among medical providers. I've read stories where it has to be kept secret that the midwife is a midwife and the birth was a planned homebirth (Ayelet/tanismom's story of her planned homebirth turned hospital transfer in Isreal comes to mind--should be in the 2009 lodges--as well as a story recounted in Jennifer Block's book Pushed) and I think that has a potential to cause problems for moms and babies in a real emergency.

You could always show up at the hospital and claim to have not known you were pregnant...It works for the chicks on that show, right?

j/k.

I think that homebirth midwifery should be independent, yet have at least working relationships with OB that doesn't exactly make them connected....does that make sense?

MrsMangoBabe's picture
Joined: 04/09/07
Posts: 2276

yeah, I agree, the construct where midwives work "under" OB's is no good--it puts too many limits on midwifery--I would prefer a collaborative model instead of a heiarchal one--the midwives (along with the mother herself) deciding when the OB's are needed instead of the OB's deciding when they need to step in and setting limits how far past the due date the midwife can attend a birth, how long the water can be broken before the mom must transfer, what in the woman's history or current pregnancy qualifies her as "too high risk," etc.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"OperaDiva" wrote:

I feel the SAME way sometimes! I am like a lot of you, fiscally conservative, socially libertarian, pro-life (more pro-human rights starting at conceptiton), and very pro-birth options.

I agree that the government needs a major overhaul, it really is having to vote for the lesser of two evils. I would vote libertarian most of the time, but really where would that get me, since everyone else thinks it's not really an option? More people vote libertarian than did before, but it's still not high enough numbers to really make it a viable option.

Yes yes yes, you know exactly what I mean. Thank you!

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"brandnewmommy" wrote:

I'm in Illinois and I'm frustrated when it comes to voting. I really really really want CPMs to be licensed. But it's really hard when you have to pick and choose between a lot of different issues that are important. I've also given up on the two main parties. I will likely vote libertarian. I guess I figure if we don't start voting differently, the main two parties will always be the only options.

I'm frustrated that with CPMs and birth centers not being a legal option in IL really limits my options for my home birth. There's one CNM who does homebirths legally within a decent radius of my house. So it's not like I get to interview and pick and choose. I get to meet her and hope that it's a fit because she's my only option. I could go with a CPM practicing illegally, but that option scares me. I'd worry about what would happen if transfer should become necessary.

Anyways, not trying to hijack, just trying to say that I'm in Illinois and I completely understand and feel your frustration. It sucks having very limited options because our rights as far as birthing goes have been legislated away from us.

I totally know exactly how you feel. We have on CNM who does homebirth close to me too, but I am not a candidate since I am a vba3c. Sigh! I did meet with some midwifes who practice outside the law so to speak, but the one didn't seem comfortable with my vbac and I am don't want to have a care giver who is not comfortable. You wouldn't happen to belong to a certain yahoo group would you? LOL I caused quite a rukuss on there the other day. Ooops.

And as for transfer I will tell you the midwife I met wanted me to have some care from an OB so I wouldn't be without a doctor if I had to transfer.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"momW" wrote:

I'm in IL too and also a member of the yahoo group you are referring to. I had the same thought when I saw the post about voting. It seems like we have a lot more staunch democrats in this state in general than anywhere else. I know in my area it's held over from a time long ago when the democratic party was all for the 'little man.' Now, there are more issues dividing the parties than the older generation acknowledges so they still vote democratic without really understanding the 'real' issues at hand. That is the case with every person over 65 that I know that votes democratic, my grandparents, my ILs and everyone of their friends or acquaintances. They also pass it onto their kids. I know some of my aunts and uncles vote democratic across the board just because that is what my grandparents do.

I too am a conservative and NCB advocate and feel in the minority in this state. I' glad to see from so many previous posts, that may be true here but not everywhere.

Yeah I couldn't keep my mouth shut so you know who I am now. LOL I am glad the moderator stepped in. I talked to her and she was very nice about it. I do think it must be this state. It is tough for me living here. The town I live in isn't so bad, but having Chicago circumvent any vote we have really stinks.

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"mandora" wrote:

Just so you can add to your 'Canadian knowledge' Smile :) (or, to hijack the thread a bit more...)

You're healthcare sucks. -nope. Smile I have never waited longer than a couple of hours to get care, and even then, it's because it wasn't important in the scheme of triage (it was a weird rash, or I just had a cough or something). When I hemorrhaged after my miscarriage, I walked into emerg and was in the ER, on a bed, with an IV within 10 minutes. If I need to make an appointment with my family doc I can do so within the same day usually. Midwifery and homebirth are covered here (in Ontario anyway...some provinces it isn't and you have to pay out of pocket, but that's changing). We don't pay for any services (just prescriptions). I've never known (or even HEARD of) anyone who has a story like what you're describing, but for some reason, many many americans (friends of mine included) think it's the norm.

But you do pay for services. You pay for it out of your taxes. Sorry that is a pet peeve of mine. Heathcare is never free. Feel free to computer slap me if you want. Wink

Mom2ThreeKiddos's picture
Joined: 09/15/09
Posts: 1380

"MrsMangoBabe" wrote:

yeah, I agree, the construct where midwives work "under" OB's is no good--it puts too many limits on midwifery--I would prefer a collaborative model instead of a heiarchal one--the midwives (along with the mother herself) deciding when the OB's are needed instead of the OB's deciding when they need to step in and setting limits how far past the due date the midwife can attend a birth, how long the water can be broken before the mom must transfer, what in the woman's history or current pregnancy qualifies her as "too high risk," etc.

I agree. I think midwifes should be able to have sole practices without having to be babysat by an OB.

batgirlandrobin's picture
Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 163

"mom2threekiddos" wrote:

heathcare is never free.

this is so true!

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

...but having Chicago circumvent any vote we have really stinks.

DITTO!!!

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