So why is it that you can't be conservative and for natural birth

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mandora's picture
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"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

But you do pay for services. You pay for it out of your taxes. Sorry that is a pet peeve of mine. Heathcare is never free. Feel free to computer slap me if you want. Wink

Theoretically true. Smile But I don't pay taxes - I'm too poor (and until recently, a student... I still have all kinds of credits banked from that to offset anything I *should* pay)... I can make about $60K a year for the next few years and not pay anything. So really *I* don't pay for healthcare right now. Smile Just sayin.... (now YOU can computer slap ME) Wink

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"mandora" wrote:

Theoretically true. Smile But I don't pay taxes - I'm too poor (and until recently, a student... I still have all kinds of credits banked from that to offset anything I *should* pay)... I can make about $60K a year for the next few years and not pay anything. So really *I* don't pay for healthcare right now. Smile Just sayin.... (now YOU can computer slap ME) Wink

Statistically speaking Alberta's taxes are some of the lowest in the western world, AND we actually don't pay for our healthcare here (oil and gas revenue by the government pays for ours) Technically yes a portion of our taxes are lumped into the funding the government assigns to the healthcare of our province (just like your states each province has different setups) but as I mentioned our taxes are so low it really isn't like how the USA pays for healthcare. We have no provincial taxes here (state taxes) and we do have GST (a sales tax to the federal government 5% on every purchase of goods/services) But most of us qualify for what's called a GST return check, so we get money back every quarter from the government to subsidise what we pay on our shopping. ALSO parents in Canada receive two checks a month for each child, the first based on your income is called the Child Tax Benifit. I currently get about 200$ for my DD, and the second check is a flat rate $100 which is to offset any care costs (babysitting/daycare/preschool) It doesn't seem like much but there have been months when that $300 really came in handy. With another on the way I'll start getting another CTB check for the new kiddo about a month after he/she is born.

In short... yes healthcare can be free, and yes we get paid to breed Blum 3

**Edited to add: And I've never made enough to pay taxes either, I get a return of about $3000 a year ***

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"mandora" wrote:

Theoretically true. Smile But I don't pay taxes - I'm too poor (and until recently, a student... I still have all kinds of credits banked from that to offset anything I *should* pay)... I can make about $60K a year for the next few years and not pay anything. So really *I* don't pay for healthcare right now. Smile Just sayin.... (now YOU can computer slap ME) Wink

Ok well maybe not your taxes but someones taxes pay for it. So someone else is paying for your care. You didn't say it but I hear it all the time from those in tax sponsored healthcare how their healthcare is free, but it isn't. Someone is paying even if you(general) specificically aren't. I will leave it up to everyone to decide if this is good or bad on their own. I am not trying to be mean or anything so I hope I haven't offended.

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"momW" wrote:

These are the things I "know" (the term know is used loosely) about Canada from school and life. You're healthcare sucks. It's cold up there. And I think you all speak French as a second language. Your cops ride horses. And you guys aren't trying to hop our border illegally.

This made me smile Smile

Our health care is great and evidence based (contrary to much of what I read about on this board in particular). Technically I *learned* French in school, but I imagine I'm as fluent as most Americans are at Spanish (meaning I can barely speak any, in case I'm wrong and you're all bilingual). Our cops used to ride horses... Before there were cars ;). And no, we aren't too big on hopping the border.

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"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

Ok well maybe not your taxes but someones taxes pay for it. So someone else is paying for your care. You didn't say it but I hear it all the time from those in tax sponsored healthcare how their healthcare is free, but it isn't. Someone is paying even if you(general) specificically aren't. I will leave it up to everyone to decide if this is good or bad on their own. I am not trying to be mean or anything so I hope I haven't offended.

True health care is not free. Canada is heavily taxed, compared to the US and much of that goes towards our health care system. However, even being conservative minded (socially and fiscally) I consider it a good trade off. There are many other social systems I would cut, but health care is worth spending on, in my opinion.

We also pay very little taxes due to tuition credits, charitable donations, political donations, etc. But, taxes come in other forms - GST, PST, HST, taxes on fuel, property taxes, etc. I know these go into different levels of gov't, but tax is tax.

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"kris_w" wrote:

True health care is not free. Canada is heavily taxed, compared to the US and much of that goes towards our health care system. However, even being conservative minded (socially and fiscally) I consider it a good trade off. There are many other social systems I would cut, but health care is worth spending on, in my opinion.

We also pay very little taxes due to tuition credits, charitable donations, political donations, etc. But, taxes come in other forms - GST, PST, HST, taxes on fuel, property taxes, etc. I know these go into different levels of gov't, but tax is tax.

I don't have the right answer. The healthcare one is one that I struggle with. I pay a lot in taxes. I mean a lot. It totally sucks actually. And right now our taxes are going to go up drastically. I can't afford to pay more. Do I think everyone should have healthcare, of course. What is the right answer for paying for it... I really don't know. I know that not getting to choose my doctor and being told I have to wait for the care I need isn't something I can deal with. (we have had various storis on my BB of Canadian women having to wait or not getting choices) There has to be a way to balance it out. It is just a pet peeve when people say it is free, because it isn't. Now is it worth it maybe, but still isn't free. kwim? Right now I am incredibly disgruntled by our government. LOL I personally would cut funding to the crazy mouse thingy that Nancy Pelosi stuck funding for in the stimulus bill. Wink

As for Canadian healthcare, I only know what has been said by women here and on other boards, so my knowledge is lacking.

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"kris_w" wrote:

This made me smile Smile

Our health care is great and evidence based (contrary to much of what I read about on this board in particular). Technically I *learned* French in school, but I imagine I'm as fluent as most Americans are at Spanish (meaning I can barely speak any, in case I'm wrong and you're all bilingual). Our cops used to ride horses... Before there were cars ;). And no, we aren't too big on hopping the border.

Then why on earth was everything in borth French and English when I went to the world figure skating championships in Vancouver BC. That was just annoying. LOL

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I am not happy with the way health care is in America today. Health insurance is a pain--its way too complicated. However, I'm not comfortable transfering all of the power over the system to the government--I just don't trust them. I would prefer having it be where you can get health insurance with a very low premium and a very high deductible and have it be for emergencies only, and then have a health savings account and pay for your services yourself, that way the market can keep costs down. I am okay with having government funded health insurance for the poor, though I wish there was some way to keep people from abusing it--when DH was a missionary in New Jersey, he said there were people in the ghettos who were on medicaid and would call ambulances for rides to the hospital because they don't have to pay for it--do you know how much an ambulance bill is? I think that happens to a certain extent with private insurance, too, though not as much becuase of deductibles and copays. I just would prefer for the healthcare decisions to be made by the consumer because I believe that free markets can keep costs down. We also need major legal reform because part of why our doctors, especially obsetricians, aren't practicing evidence based medicine, is the fear of litigation, because the legal system gives them insentives to use every technology and procedure because the more you do, the less you're at fault for a poor outcome, to the courts.

um...getting off soapbox now, sorry...

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"Mom2ThreeKiddos" wrote:

Then why on earth was everything in borth French and English when I went to the world figure skating championships in Vancouver BC. That was just annoying. LOL

lol... We're a bilingual country, not bilingual people. Wink The main language in Quebec is french though, they are truly bilingual.

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I think the horror stories about Canadian health care are probably sometimes true and sometimes exaggerated for effect to strengthen the resolve of those pushing privatized health care. There are definitely some areas of the country where there are doctor shortages, where facilities are lacking/not state-of-the-art, etc etc.... but that's true no matter where you go. I know people who live on the American side (we're a border town and have a sister city in the US), who have told me that their hospital/doctor situation/general healthcare options are MUCH worse than ours. Is it true? I don't know... I can't speak from experience. But I suspect there are going to be areas of your state/province/country where resources are lacking (for various reasons) and that will result in services not being awesome.

If you live in a large metro area of Canada, you absolutely have no issues getting care, you have an abundance of choices about care providers, and don't have to wait for care. In smaller or rural areas, naturally your choices are more limited. You need to remember, our population is 1/10 of yours...over a much larger geographic area. That means that we simply don't have population densities to support large mega-hospitals for every community or region. If something happens and my kids need specialist treatment, we need to be air lifted 8 hours south to the closest large hospital with a children's hospital (all of which is covered by government coverage, btw). But that's because in that 8 hour radius, we have maybe 200 000 people, spread over an area the size of many of your US states. We simply don't have the NEED for the resources the US has, or any way to maintain them (if only 4 people a month need a service, you're not going to build a major state-of-the-art center, kwim?)

So, I think comparing what works in Canada to 'what could work in the US' isn't fair.... your population is MUCH bigger. To support government funded healthcare, you would need a much higher income than we require in Canada. 360 million people, vs. 30 million... that's a BIG difference when you're talking about health services (or any social/health/government program).

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"mandora" wrote:

So, I think comparing what works in Canada to 'what could work in the US' isn't fair.... your population is MUCH bigger. To support government funded healthcare, you would need a much higher income than we require in Canada. 360 million people, vs. 30 million... that's a BIG difference when you're talking about health services (or any social/health/government program).

That is probably very true.

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"momW" wrote:

DITTO!!!

Sigh! and it happens again.

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"MrsMangoBabe" wrote:

I am not happy with the way health care is in America today. Health insurance is a pain--its way too complicated. However, I'm not comfortable transfering all of the power over the system to the government--I just don't trust them. I would prefer having it be where you can get health insurance with a very low premium and a very high deductible and have it be for emergencies only, and then have a health savings account and pay for your services yourself, that way the market can keep costs down. I am okay with having government funded health insurance for the poor, though I wish there was some way to keep people from abusing it--when DH was a missionary in New Jersey, he said there were people in the ghettos who were on medicaid and would call ambulances for rides to the hospital because they don't have to pay for it--do you know how much an ambulance bill is? I think that happens to a certain extent with private insurance, too, though not as much becuase of deductibles and copays. I just would prefer for the healthcare decisions to be made by the consumer because I believe that free markets can keep costs down. We also need major legal reform because part of why our doctors, especially obsetricians, aren't practicing evidence based medicine, is the fear of litigation, because the legal system gives them insentives to use every technology and procedure because the more you do, the less you're at fault for a poor outcome, to the courts.

um...getting off soapbox now, sorry...

So true. Sigh!

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