What are my chances?

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OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145
What are my chances?

Of giving birth naturally (VBAC)?

With my first pregnancy -- I had a c section unexpectedly at 37 weeks 4 days. My daughter was breech + low amniotic fluids. My OBGYN at the time stated that she risked a major cord accident and being delivered stillborn.

Since then I have changed OBGYNS. My new OBGYN (unfortunately) delivers at a defacto ban hospital. He seems to support my wishes for a vbac but says I will be unable to do it at the hospital he delivers at.

They still have NO idea why I had low amniotic fluids (even though it was middle of summer in Florida?) or why she was breech. They also think that her being born and weighing 5lbs 4oz was of "low birth weight". New doctor thinks that all of those issues combined may indicate an unknown issue that never had time to FULLY present itself. So now I am also seeing a high-risk doctor.

SO FAR -- the baby looks great. Growing on target. Nothing out of the ordinary.

ISSUES I've had so far:
- subchorionic bleeding early in pregnancy (don't know if there is any correlation with placenta abruptions/issues in delivery?) As far as I know the SCH lasted around 10 days before it dissolved itself.
- Uterine Fibroid (any correlation for complications?) It has also since disappeared.
- Uterine Prolapse -- honestly not sure if I still have this. My doctor didnt seem concerned and hasn't mentioned anything in months. Said it was possible it would correct itself as baby grew.

Does anyone know if any of those issues would ruin my chances at a VBAC? Would I be completely out of line to deny c-section and go to a different hospital when I went into labor if all looked good w hen it was time for baby to come?

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

I am not a doctor and hate to second guess with such limited info, but that sounds to me like your first c/s might have been unnecessary, and I really don't know why they'd be worrying you about the second based only on that! 37w4d is not at all too late for the baby to still turn from breech, and "low amniotic fluid" is often just ordinary dehydration--did they have you go drink a bunch and relax and then retest??

Unless there's more to the story, I'm not seeing any reason here that you couldn't try for and expect to have a normal VBAC...

faeriecurls's picture
Joined: 06/04/08
Posts: 790

I'm with Leigh, but again, I don't know all the info.

Are there any VBAC friendly doctors/midwives in your area that deliver at a different hospital? I think you would be better off switching providers now and planning/preparing for a VBAC with a doctor or MW that will support you and help you achieve that, rather than just going to a different hospital when you go into labor. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure one of the more experienced mommas will have a lot to add!

kvo
kvo's picture
Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 902

"faeriecurls" wrote:

I'm with Leigh, but again, I don't know all the info.

Are there any VBAC friendly doctors/midwives in your area that deliver at a different hospital? I think you would be better off switching providers now and planning/preparing for a VBAC with a doctor or MW that will support you and help you achieve that, rather than just going to a different hospital when you go into labor. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure one of the more experienced mommas will have a lot to add!

I agree with this. It sounds like your doctor would understand completely and may possibly even be willing to refer you to someone he knows. Way better to do that then to just show up someplace. You never know who you will get.

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"cactuswren" wrote:

I am not a doctor and hate to second guess with such limited info, but that sounds to me like your first c/s might have been unnecessary, and I really don't know why they'd be worrying you about the second based only on that! 37w4d is not at all too late for the baby to still turn from breech, and "low amniotic fluid" is often just ordinary dehydration--did they have you go drink a bunch and relax and then retest??

Unless there's more to the story, I'm not seeing any reason here that you couldn't try for and expect to have a normal VBAC...

I have a friend who is a natural birth advocate and nurse -- and she said it was one of the few good excuses. Because the mix of low fluids AND being breeched. .they didn't worry about her turning in TIME.. they just worried about her turning in GENERAL because of the low amniotic fluid. Because of the lack of fluid and t urning, she could have had the cord wrapped around her much more easier.

What I WISH they would have done was have me drink ,drink ,drink -- and then re scan me a few hours later. It's not as if they took her out that SECOND. I had the sonogram at 8am that morning, but they did not deliver her until 10:28 that EVENING. It seems that would have been PLENTY of time to retest my fluids..

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"faeriecurls" wrote:

I'm with Leigh, but again, I don't know all the info.

Are there any VBAC friendly doctors/midwives in your area that deliver at a different hospital? I think you would be better off switching providers now and planning/preparing for a VBAC with a doctor or MW that will support you and help you achieve that, rather than just going to a different hospital when you go into labor. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure one of the more experienced mommas will have a lot to add!

I've thought about it.. but other than the fact that my OBGYN doesn't deliver at a VBAC friendly hospital -- he has been really accommodating and friendly. He'll sit down with me and discuss all my concerns without my feeling rushed. It's hard to find doctors like that. My last OBGYN -- I didn't change because of the c-section (because he DOES deliver at a VBAC "friendly" hospital) but because I felt like just another dollar sign rather than a mother with a child. For example, he didn't even want to DISCUSS vbac wheN I went to see him at 6 weeks because it was "too early" and "anything could happen". but he would be willing to discuss it with me after my 1st trimester. Basically he treated me like my child was not a child until I passed the first tri! I HATED that!

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"kvo" wrote:

I agree with this. It sounds like your doctor would understand completely and may possibly even be willing to refer you to someone he knows. Way better to do that then to just show up someplace. You never know who you will get.

He hasn't actually even discussed c-section with me (YET!) He did mention it at my first appointment mainly because he delivers only at a hospital where it is banned. But I have done research in hospitals and am wanting to deliver at a hospital which is actually closer. It has a restructured L&D unit and is very baby friendly. I've heard a lot of great stories of women getting their VBAC wishes there as the doctors who deliver t here are known to be very VBAC friendly.

The only issue with switching to one of these VBAC friendly doctors is that -- if I should have Doctor A (for example) and he knows ahead of time I want to do a vbac, they charge a VBAC fee so he'll DEFINITELY be there for the delivery. I think it's like 5,000! I also do not think it is covered by insurance.

As for midwife -- in Florida it is illegal for a former csection patient to have their first VBAC in a birth center. If I should have a VBAC now, then next child I will be able to go to a birth center.. but for now, a birth center (unfortunately) is out of the question. I also do not feel comfortable with a home birth (although I think the idea is beautiful) I think I am way too worrisome to do that -- and I know it's not something my husband would agree to. I would be more open to it if my husband was 100% supportive of the idea.. but he never would be.

I also do not think Midwives can assist births in the hospitals in FL but I am looking into that.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

Low amniotic fluid can be a major ordeal, but I can't believe they didn't give you a chance to get it back up. Amniotic fluid is constantly being replenished if all is working well.

I had a c/s 11 years ago and 19 months ago I tried to VBAC. The hospital was VBAC friendly and I thought my dr was too, but he pulled a bunch of crap right at the end and induced me even though I wasn't dialated or effaced at all. I ended up with another c/s. I'm angry at the way I was bullied into an induction, but I learned from it. I am now pg with #3 and am planning a homebirth this fall.

What I have found to help me with my decision is to do tons of research. I know that homebirthing is safer in general. I also know the risks for a repeat c-section and the risks for a VBAC (for me it's a VBA2C) and I choose the risks for the VBAC. The only way I get to make that choice for myself is to homebirth.

If you don't have any pregnancy complications that haven't been resolved then I don't see why you wouldn't have the same chance as anyone else. The research is a little scattered as far as the %'s of women that attempt and complete a VBAC. It depends a lot on how VBAC friendly the provider and hospital actually are, but most statistics are around 70% of trial of labors end with vaginal deliveries. Those are very good odds!

It's also helped me to scour the internet reading successful VBAC stories or in my case HBAC stories. I have quite the library here at home of birth books and I try to get DH to read them all as well, but if there's a chapter that I think he should read to get the point across I mark it and he reads it in the bathroom. I think the thought of a homebirth scared the crap out of him at first, but after sharing my research with him he's now on board with it.

I have lots of information here so if you have anything specific let me know. I will point you in the right direction to find the answers!

Joined: 08/03/07
Posts: 3264

Did they do a pathology report on your placenta or did it show sign of failure to see if it was the cause of the low AF? I had low AF with my first due to placental failure (along with IUGR from it), with my second we didn't have any problems at all.

Cindy

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

"OneLuckyScoop" wrote:

He hasn't actually even discussed c-section with me (YET!) He did mention it at my first appointment mainly because he delivers only at a hospital where it is banned. But I have done research in hospitals and am wanting to deliver at a hospital which is actually closer. It has a restructured L&D unit and is very baby friendly. I've heard a lot of great stories of women getting their VBAC wishes there as the doctors who deliver t here are known to be very VBAC friendly.

The only issue with switching to one of these VBAC friendly doctors is that -- if I should have Doctor A (for example) and he knows ahead of time I want to do a vbac, they charge a VBAC fee so he'll DEFINITELY be there for the delivery. I think it's like 5,000! I also do not think it is covered by insurance.

As for midwife -- in Florida it is illegal for a former csection patient to have their first VBAC in a birth center. If I should have a VBAC now, then next child I will be able to go to a birth center.. but for now, a birth center (unfortunately) is out of the question. I also do not feel comfortable with a home birth (although I think the idea is beautiful) I think I am way too worrisome to do that -- and I know it's not something my husband would agree to. I would be more open to it if my husband was 100% supportive of the idea.. but he never would be.

I also do not think Midwives can assist births in the hospitals in FL but I am looking into that.

You know, read up on it some more, get DH to watch some HBAC videos with you and stuff like that. I was in your shoes just a few weeks back. We were having trouble finding a hospital/OB/MW, and I mentioned HBAC sortof off-hand in a joking manner. At first DH was against it. But we have been taking Bradley classes (which I STRONGLY recommend). They are really great about getting DH involved and putting it into numbers and visual things that he can relate to and understand. Now that we have learned more and more, he is actually totally on board. If I could find a hospital where I knew they would respect my choices and facilitate the environment that I desire, I would have NO PROBLEMS birthing in a hospital. But the odds are slim to none that it will happen like that... even in a VBAC-"friendly" hospital. It all depends who is on staff, and I don't like not knowing. But if I absolutely HAD to birth in a hospital, then my plan would be to wait until the last minute before going (that is of course if there are no indicators of high-risk to me or baby beforehand). You know, if you walk in the door ready to push, then I could hardly see them refusing your VBAC. I just hope you have a really great support group.

Why is DH so against HBAC?

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"momW" wrote:

Low amniotic fluid can be a major ordeal, but I can't believe they didn't give you a chance to get it back up. Amniotic fluid is constantly being replenished if all is working well.

I had a c/s 11 years ago and 19 months ago I tried to VBAC. The hospital was VBAC friendly and I thought my dr was too, but he pulled a bunch of crap right at the end and induced me even though I wasn't dialated or effaced at all. I ended up with another c/s. I'm angry at the way I was bullied into an induction, but I learned from it. I am now pg with #3 and am planning a homebirth this fall.

What I have found to help me with my decision is to do tons of research. I know that homebirthing is safer in general. I also know the risks for a repeat c-section and the risks for a VBAC (for me it's a VBA2C) and I choose the risks for the VBAC. The only way I get to make that choice for myself is to homebirth.

If you don't have any pregnancy complications that haven't been resolved then I don't see why you wouldn't have the same chance as anyone else. The research is a little scattered as far as the %'s of women that attempt and complete a VBAC. It depends a lot on how VBAC friendly the provider and hospital actually are, but most statistics are around 70% of trial of labors end with vaginal deliveries. Those are very good odds!

It's also helped me to scour the internet reading successful VBAC stories or in my case HBAC stories. I have quite the library here at home of birth books and I try to get DH to read them all as well, but if there's a chapter that I think he should read to get the point across I mark it and he reads it in the bathroom. I think the thought of a homebirth scared the crap out of him at first, but after sharing my research with him he's now on board with it.

I have lots of information here so if you have anything specific let me know. I will point you in the right direction to find the answers!

So would you advise in refusing to set a c-section date at all? I know that I will refuse any sort of induction unless I am 41weeks.

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"lifeisgood" wrote:

Did they do a pathology report on your placenta or did it show sign of failure to see if it was the cause of the low AF? I had low AF with my first due to placental failure (along with IUGR from it), with my second we didn't have any problems at all.

Cindy

Good question. There was no such report to the best of my knowledge. No one in the hospital, or my pediatrician after the fact (both in the hospital and my own) ever showed a concern for her smaller size. I think most attributed it to the fact that she was ONLY 37 weeks. Had she been born 39-40 weeks, she probably would have been of "normal" size.

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"krazykat" wrote:

You know, if you walk in the door ready to push, then I could hardly see them refusing your VBAC. I just hope you have a really great support group.

Why is DH so against HBAC?

That is what I am HOPING for -- that I will be in full labor when going to the hospital and they'll see no need to c-section me. Especially if everything is A-OK with the baby.

DH is just as anxiety-worrisome as I am. I also am not comfortable with the idea -- mainly because I associate places and experiences. If I am in a lot of pain.. I probably wouldn't want to be in that room again for a long time, etc.

I am not 100% closed to the idea.. just very hesitant.

krazykat's picture
Joined: 08/11/07
Posts: 1143

"OneLuckyScoop" wrote:

That is what I am HOPING for -- that I will be in full labor when going to the hospital and they'll see no need to c-section me. Especially if everything is A-OK with the baby.

DH is just as anxiety-worrisome as I am. I also am not comfortable with the idea -- mainly because I associate places and experiences. If I am in a lot of pain.. I probably wouldn't want to be in that room again for a long time, etc.

I am not 100% closed to the idea.. just very hesitant.

I understand that completely. That is kindof how I started... I was open to it and then started reading more and more and preparing myself (w/Bradley and Hypnobabies), and then that's just kindof where my heart began to lead me to.

I REALLY hope you get the birth experience that you desire. I know how nervous it can make you to be not quite sure of what is going to happen.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

"OneLuckyScoop" wrote:

So would you advise in refusing to set a c-section date at all? I know that I will refuse any sort of induction unless I am 41weeks.

The thing with just refusing a c/s is you have to be ready for quite a fight. The idea almost appealed to me to just go to the hospital ready to push with this pregnancy. However, I read some stories of girls that did just that and I'm just not sure I'm gonna have enough fight in me to do it. When you're laboring, you're completely absorbed in yourself and your own body that I just don't think I'd personally have the ability to deal with everyone pushing for a c/s. Also, my DH is fine with my decision for a VBA2C, but I don't think he'd go to bat for me, especially if at some point the dr's throw in the dead baby card. I'm in quite the fighting mood now, but I really think it would take some kind of willpower to keep this fight right through labor and delivery. I can't imagine it would be a great labor or delivery, but I guess if you could do it at least it would be vaginal.

But, could you stay with your dr at the VBAC ban hospital throughout your pregnancy and then go to the VBAC friendly hospital to deliver? Of course, then you'd still have to probably fight at the end of your pregnancy against a scheduled c/s.

I know that $5000 is a lot of money. It would hurt us quite drastically, if we could even come up with it. However, with the dr that is VBAC friendly you won't have to fight to keep a c/s at bay. He'd also be more apt to monitor you late in pregnancy and not try to scare you. For example, if for some reason, your amniotic fluid does get low again, the non-VBAC dr is going to use this as a perfect reason why you need to schedule your c/s right away! Where as VBAC dr might do something like hydrate you and make you rest and see how that works. With non-VBAC friendly dr, if he somehow does convince you to do a c/s, after that, you're going to wonder if there was something you could've done different. I've spent the last couple years questioning every decision I made at the end of my pg with DS because my seemingly VBAC-friendly dr pushed me into something I didn't agree with. I constantly wonder if maybe I should've just not shown up to the induction. What if I would've fought him harder in the last appointment? What if I would've scheduled an appointment with one of the other dr's, would they have done it different?

Also, just out of curiosity, why is an induction at 41 weeks okay? I'm just wondering how that date came to mind.

Keep talking about it. Keep asking questions. It always helps me to just keep hearing information that others can bring to the table. Also, do you belong to ICAN yet? They are a wealth of information. Those girls point me in the right direction for answers that I need.

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

I think your chances are good! The more informed you make yourself the better off you are. Ask ask ask. Of course reading is a great resource as well:) I recognize your from the cloth diaper board, any fun tiny fluff you want to share?!

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

I now have another reason to hate Florida! Blum 3 You know, I'd talk with a lawyer about that VBAC fee. I'm pretty sure that's been tried before & found to be illegal. It's penalizing you for the way your first child was born, and it's a penalty that other pregnant moms don't have to pay, and I'm pretty sure it violates something besides common sense & decency. I don't have time to look it up (shouldn't even be here at all!) but you might want to look into it.

Also, your comment about, "they'll see no need to section me," strikes me as you have a lot of thinking to do. It's not up to them whether to section you or not, it's YOUR decision, and no one else's. EVER. A lot of the other stuff you're saying sounds strong, so I'm sure if this is just a "slip of the tongue" or if it's your shadow-self peeking through, kwim? Words are powerful, and those words are giving away your power, which is something you can't do when you're going for a VBAC. Your mind-set has to be more along the lines of, "There won't be any time to discuss a repeat c-section." And with that in mind, you also need to read your hospital admittance paperwork very carefully, because you might find that it gives them the right to perform a c-section on you at their discretion. Cross that part out, and date & initial it, and get a copy for yourself. In an emergency, your verbal consent will be sufficient (BTDT!) and that also protects you from a scalpel-happy and/or VBAC-hostile doctor.

Now about the issues you're concerned about. The early bleeding *may* indicate that the placenta has improperly attached at the incision site, but that can be checked by ultrasound later in the pregnancy. Uterine fibroids can sometimes be in the way of baby getting out, but if yours has disappeared (from hormone changes, you might find it returns after birth) then that's no problem. Uterine prolapse is almost never an issue because it resolves itself as the uterus grows, but if a later ultrasound shows it's still prolapsed, I'm pretty sure there are exercises you can do to encourage it to tip the right way. Good luck to you with your VBAC!

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"momW" wrote:

The thing with just refusing a c/s is you have to be ready for quite a fight. The idea almost appealed to me to just go to the hospital ready to push with this pregnancy. However, I read some stories of girls that did just that and I'm just not sure I'm gonna have enough fight in me to do it. When you're laboring, you're completely absorbed in yourself and your own body that I just don't think I'd personally have the ability to deal with everyone pushing for a c/s. Also, my DH is fine with my decision for a VBA2C, but I don't think he'd go to bat for me, especially if at some point the dr's throw in the dead baby card. I'm in quite the fighting mood now, but I really think it would take some kind of willpower to keep this fight right through labor and delivery. I can't imagine it would be a great labor or delivery, but I guess if you could do it at least it would be vaginal.

But, could you stay with your dr at the VBAC ban hospital throughout your pregnancy and then go to the VBAC friendly hospital to deliver? Of course, then you'd still have to probably fight at the end of your pregnancy against a scheduled c/s.

I know that $5000 is a lot of money. It would hurt us quite drastically, if we could even come up with it. However, with the dr that is VBAC friendly you won't have to fight to keep a c/s at bay. He'd also be more apt to monitor you late in pregnancy and not try to scare you. For example, if for some reason, your amniotic fluid does get low again, the non-VBAC dr is going to use this as a perfect reason why you need to schedule your c/s right away! Where as VBAC dr might do something like hydrate you and make you rest and see how that works. With non-VBAC friendly dr, if he somehow does convince you to do a c/s, after that, you're going to wonder if there was something you could've done different. I've spent the last couple years questioning every decision I made at the end of my pg with DS because my seemingly VBAC-friendly dr pushed me into something I didn't agree with. I constantly wonder if maybe I should've just not shown up to the induction. What if I would've fought him harder in the last appointment? What if I would've scheduled an appointment with one of the other dr's, would they have done it different?

Also, just out of curiosity, why is an induction at 41 weeks okay? I'm just wondering how that date came to mind.

Keep talking about it. Keep asking questions. It always helps me to just keep hearing information that others can bring to the table. Also, do you belong to ICAN yet? They are a wealth of information. Those girls point me in the right direction for answers that I need.

5,000 is a huge financial risk. What if something happens, and the VBAC doctor pushes for a section? Then that's 5,000 out the door. We just don't have it. It's not available. We push pennies as it is.. It's just an impossible financial situation. I guess, at this point in time -- I just have to read up, know my facts and keep telling myself that I can "do it".

I think part of me feels confidant that I can -- simply because I never DID go into labor. What if I am a total natural? I never had the chance to feel my water break or to feel a single contraction with Carli. What happened with her could have been a simple fluke. Maybe I was simply dehydrated and that was it. But that doesn't mean I CAN'T give birth naturally..

Knowing I live in Florida and will be having another late Summer baby -- I am working really hard on staying hydrated. Doing everything I can to avoid the possibility of dehydration. Also will try things to have the baby turn early on -- maybe she'll stay that way.

I know there is a HUGE possibility they will do the dead baby card. Maybe I will just have to go in there prepared for their REASONING to pull the card.. "You're taking too long to labor.." "the baby is too big.." etc. I am hoping if I come back just as prepared that they'll realize that I am not uneducated in the matter.

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"graysonsmom" wrote:

I think your chances are good! The more informed you make yourself the better off you are. Ask ask ask. Of course reading is a great resource as well:) I recognize your from the cloth diaper board, any fun tiny fluff you want to share?!

heh! Smile My serger has been out of work temporarily while I wait for my serger blades to come in. So I don't have anything other than a recent diaper bag I made. Smile

OneLuckyScoop's picture
Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 145

"Spacers" wrote:

I now have another reason to hate Florida! Blum 3 You know, I'd talk with a lawyer about that VBAC fee. I'm pretty sure that's been tried before & found to be illegal. It's penalizing you for the way your first child was born, and it's a penalty that other pregnant moms don't have to pay, and I'm pretty sure it violates something besides common sense & decency. I don't have time to look it up (shouldn't even be here at all!) but you might want to look into it.

Also, your comment about, "they'll see no need to section me," strikes me as you have a lot of thinking to do. It's not up to them whether to section you or not, it's YOUR decision, and no one else's. EVER. A lot of the other stuff you're saying sounds strong, so I'm sure if this is just a "slip of the tongue" or if it's your shadow-self peeking through, kwim? Words are powerful, and those words are giving away your power, which is something you can't do when you're going for a VBAC. Your mind-set has to be more along the lines of, "There won't be any time to discuss a repeat c-section." And with that in mind, you also need to read your hospital admittance paperwork very carefully, because you might find that it gives them the right to perform a c-section on you at their discretion. Cross that part out, and date & initial it, and get a copy for yourself. In an emergency, your verbal consent will be sufficient (BTDT!) and that also protects you from a scalpel-happy and/or VBAC-hostile doctor.

Now about the issues you're concerned about. The early bleeding *may* indicate that the placenta has improperly attached at the incision site, but that can be checked by ultrasound later in the pregnancy. Uterine fibroids can sometimes be in the way of baby getting out, but if yours has disappeared (from hormone changes, you might find it returns after birth) then that's no problem. Uterine prolapse is almost never an issue because it resolves itself as the uterus grows, but if a later ultrasound shows it's still prolapsed, I'm pretty sure there are exercises you can do to encourage it to tip the right way. Good luck to you with your VBAC!

That's a great idea about the paperwork! I am wanting to preregister at that hospital, anyway so it'll be nice to get the paperwork and read through it and see just what their stances are on c-section.

As for what I meant in regards to finding no need to section -- I'll take in mind whatever excuse they throw at me and make my own choice. If they say "too big", I know for a fact I will laugh and say "Good try."

As for the SCH -- it was shown to be gone 10 days after they first found it. The high risk doctor shows no concern and says my placenta looks great. It's in a great spot (not sure where) but I know it doesn't put me at any risk for any serious complications! The HR doctor has never once mentioned a repeat c-section so I am happy with that.

I am not even sure I will discuss it with them at all. I certainly will not bring it up myself.

cactuswren's picture
Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 4658

"OneLuckyScoop" wrote:

I know there is a HUGE possibility they will do the dead baby card. Maybe I will just have to go in there prepared for their REASONING to pull the card.. "You're taking too long to labor.." "the baby is too big.." etc. I am hoping if I come back just as prepared that they'll realize that I am not uneducated in the matter.

That is the best thing you can possibly do!