10 lessons learned from this election - Page 10
+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 114
Like Tree56Likes

Thread: 10 lessons learned from this election

  1. #91
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    Do you not believe that businesses will feel the pain of Obamacare?
    From what I understand, most of the impact is still unknown since most of the law's provisions don't take effect until 2014.

    As I was trying to explain before, there is no doubt that some pieces of the law represent greater cost to the insurance companies which we would then expect to see passed on to employers. There are other parts that reduce costs though (again, working with health care providers to reduce costs, and the rule about the min% of the price that needs to be paid out in premiums, increased access to preventative care, et cetera) that will turn around and lower the price. Then there are all of the different tax credits and even exemptions that employers can take advantage of. It's a complex issue, and I've yet to see any concrete numbers - I've seen estimates that say it may cost families up to $2100 per year more, and others that say it could save employers as much as $3000 per employee per year. The numbers are all over the place.

    The two things I am pretty sure of:

    1. Nothing has changed between Nov 5 and today. I firmly believe that CEOS and owners (who all just so happen to be republican) doing highly publicized layoffs based solely on Obama winning the election are, to put it bluntly, grandstanding.

    2. I cannot imagine that, for something like pizza where it seems like it always costs something different anyway, raising the price from (for example) $12.95 to $13.10 is going to make a huge dent in sales. I just can't see it. Am I the only person who can't name, to within 15 cents, exactly what a restaurant/delivery meal for my family will cost? Like I can name a ball park range - "Around $15 bucks or $20 bucks" but I would NEVER be able to call it within 15 cents to even know if they raised the prices. Surely I'm not the only one that is that unobservant...
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 11-11-2012 at 06:53 PM.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

  2. #92
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    9,768

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    No I don't. Here, there isn't much change. We still have LOTS of small business. None of my local non chain pizza places have closed or chains. Many businesses are expanding (grocery stores, banks, restaurants...it runs the gamut) despite having had to provide health insurance (unless they are really THAT small and do not have to) since 2007.
    Everything is closing and people are cutting hours here, we live more in a touristy type area on the coast of Oregon though, maybe that has something to do with it. But even our local supermarket chain had a meeting and cut all supervisors hours to 38 hours to not have to pay so much. Of course the prices of everything is going up, it has to to pay for the gas to get it there, and with min wage increasing they have to pay all employees more. So something has to give, if the price can't go up expenditures have to. My parents have a small business and will go bankrupt if they have to insure everyone, so I told them about the hours, to mandate that no one goes over 40, it is the only way their small property care business would survive, and both my parents would be penniless.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  3. #93
    Prolific Poster
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    But to echo Alissa...what has changed in 5 days? All of a sudden, despite not knowing true costs, everyone is closing and this can blamed on NHCR?

  4. #94
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Everything is closing and people are cutting hours here, we live more in a touristy type area on the coast of Oregon though, maybe that has something to do with it. But even our local supermarket chain had a meeting and cut all supervisors hours to 38 hours to not have to pay so much. Of course the prices of everything is going up, it has to to pay for the gas to get it there, and with min wage increasing they have to pay all employees more. So something has to give, if the price can't go up expenditures have to. My parents have a small business and will go bankrupt if they have to insure everyone, so I told them about the hours, to mandate that no one goes over 40, it is the only way their small property care business would survive, and both my parents would be penniless.
    This has been going on for decades. The jobs I had in 1990 were the same way.

  5. #95
    Community Host
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    13,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    But to echo Alissa...what has changed in 5 days? All of a sudden, despite not knowing true costs, everyone is closing and this can blamed on NHCR?
    This is a completely different topic, but I am going to tell you a story to illustrate. DH and I know of a couple in their 50's who had lost their son. They received a 1,000,000 life insurance policy from their son. They invested that money. A few years ago when the stock market went down they said they had a specific number that they knew they needed the stocks to stay above in order to have enough money to live out the rest of their lives. In the same manor, I think businesses know an exact number that they will need to stay afloat. A good business man would not wait until the day they got to that number to make changes. Back when Obamacare passed, they probably did the math and figured whether or not they could stay afloat with those mandates and what cuts they needed to make in order to stay above that number that they needed to stay afloat. It makes sense to have waited until after the election to make the cuts to see if it was possible that the mandates would be overturned before they got past that number. Now that they know they will not be overturned for at least 4 years, they are making the cuts they need to to survive as a business.
    wlillie likes this.

    ~Bonita~

  6. #96
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    The problems I have with that are two-fold

    a) Again, I'm assuming that these decisions are being made without a lot of hard numbers since the hard numbers on projected impact are hard to come by at this point. I'm a big fan of both people and businesses making informed decisions based on actually sitting down and crunching the numbers rather than just deciding based on....gut? I guess? Over a year out and short of good strong analysis, it seems premature and purely reactionary to start firing people.

    b) Even if Romney had been elected, there was no guarantee that Obamacare would have been overturned. Again, I know he promised to do it, but realistically, how? The Supreme Court already proved that they wouldn't rule it out, and Dems control the Senate, so realistically speaking, how was he going to accomplish that? Also, he himself had agreed with some of the most costly pieces (according to what he said in the debates anyway) like ensuring that insurance companies could not deny people with pre-existing conditions, so who is to say that whatever his Administration came up with would have been any cheaper, even if they had somehow magicked Obamacare away and replaced it with their own plan.

    The whole thing just seems to me to based on fuzzy logic and even fuzzier numbers.
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 11-11-2012 at 07:49 PM.
    Spacers and Jessica80 like this.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

  7. #97
    Community Host
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    13,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    The problems I have with that are two-fold

    a) Again, I'm assuming that these decisions are being made without a lot of hard numbers since the hard numbers on projected impact are hard to come by at this point. I'm a big fan of both people and businesses making informed decisions based on actually sitting down and crunching the numbers rather than just deciding based on....gut? I guess? Over a year out and short of good strong analysis, it seems premature and purely reactionary to start firing people.

    b) Even if Romney had been elected, there was no guarantee that Obamacare would have been overturned (again, I know he promised to do it, but realistically, how? The Supreme Court already proved that they wouldn't rule it out, and Dems control the Senate, so realistically speaking, how was he going to accomplish that? Also, he himself had agreed with some of the most costly pieces (according to what he said in the debates anyway) like ensuring that insurance companies could not deny people with pre-existing conditions, so who is to say that whatever his Administration came up with would have been any cheaper, even if they had somehow magicked Obamacare away and replaced it with their own plan.

    The whole thing just seems to me to based on fuzzy logic and even fuzzier numbers.
    A. A lot of what businesses do are based on educated guesses. They talk to experts, do research, but in the end half to guess. For example, a toy store on Black Friday. Black Friday is so important to a business. Most of the year they are in the red but on that precious Black Friday they are finally in the black (hence the name). How many of each toy are they going to stock? There is no way to know for sure what will be popular. If they do not stock enough of something and it sells out, they are out those sales. If they stock too much of something they will be stuck with product they can not sell. It is a delicate balance. I am sure there are many businesses that feel they are barely above water now, and would not be able to survive if they had to pay insurance for each of their employees. They have to make business decisions based on educated guesses, and their best educated guess is that if they do not lay off employees that they will no have enough to pay the bills.

    B. I agree that it is failed logic that Romney overturn Obamacare because his State also has universal healthcare. The hope was that he would try though. It was also not known before the election who would control the Senate.

    ~Bonita~

  8. #98
    Prolific Poster
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    Man, all I know is, I hope my company either decides they don't really need my position before they ever decide to lay me off instead of just guessing that they may not need me or that perhaps my position isn't affordable.
    Rivergallery likes this.

  9. #99
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    9,768

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    This has been going on for decades. The jobs I had in 1990 were the same way.
    I understand that, My father had worked for this chain for over 30 years. But it is NOW that they are cutting it.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #100
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    A. A lot of what businesses do are based on educated guesses. They talk to experts, do research, but in the end half to guess. For example, a toy store on Black Friday. Black Friday is so important to a business. Most of the year they are in the red but on that precious Black Friday they are finally in the black (hence the name). How many of each toy are they going to stock? There is no way to know for sure what will be popular. If they do not stock enough of something and it sells out, they are out those sales. If they stock too much of something they will be stuck with product they can not sell. It is a delicate balance. I am sure there are many businesses that feel they are barely above water now, and would not be able to survive if they had to pay insurance for each of their employees. They have to make business decisions based on educated guesses, and their best educated guess is that if they do not lay off employees that they will no have enough to pay the bills.

    B. I agree that it is failed logic that Romney overturn Obamacare because his State also has universal healthcare. The hope was that he would try though. It was also not known before the election who would control the Senate.
    It's hard to make an educated guess without much to go on. Helping companies make educated guesses is part of what I do for a living. I don't specialize in healthcare at all, so I can't speak to that industry specifically, but if we had as little info about the actual projected financial impact as they seem to have (from what I can tell from the news) and over a year to continue to investigate, I would advise them to hold off on making big decisions. I'm cautious like that.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
v -->

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Sitemap | Terms & Conditions