12 year olds in charge of their own medical decisions? - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    I am confused on why the author of that article included the fact that's NY supports gay marriage because of course that coincides with privacy laws.

    Annnnnnnd this is why I won't click through to the article. Like the gays are the ones getting the abortions, LOL!!! I refuse to give hate groups clicks, sorry. I recognized the name of the site from other debates you have posted, and I remember the comments and the bile they raised. Gloria, if you want to cut and paste the remainder of the article I will read it, otherwise, sorry.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    I am confused on why the author of that article included the fact that's NY supports gay marriage because of course that coincides with privacy laws.
    Glad I wasn't the only one who didn't get it.

  3. #23
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    WRONG- Untill a parent isn't legally liable for the child then they have full rights to know and control everything that child is doing. If the child can't drive, drink, smoke, serve in the military, own a gun, vote.. Then the parent is responsible and the children have different rights than an adult. Different societies view that age differently, which is fine.. But either give them full status as adults or don't..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    WRONG- Untill a parent isn't legally liable for the child then they have full rights to know and control everything that child is doing. If the child can't drive, drink, smoke, serve in the military, own a gun, vote.. Then the parent is responsible and the children have different rights than an adult. Different societies view that age differently, which is fine.. But either give them full status as adults or don't..
    That is interesting that you equate smoking with adulthood.

    drive 16 but varies by state
    , drink 21
    , smoke 18
    , serve in the military, 18
    own a gun, ? I don't know. Isn't this like 3 in texas? Doesn't this vary by state?
    vote 18

    Which age is it? Frankly I don't want "full responsibility" for my kids till they are 21, nor do I want them to have "full responsibility" at 16. Society gives gradual responsibilities with age. NY's law seems wildly young to me ~ Unfortunately it has been put in place because of things like ~ well, maybe like scary zealouts who would hurt a child who came home pregnant and she needs to be protected, or a child who is a victim of incest and can't turn to her parents. Unfortunately those things exist. I don't know how I feel about the law, other than to say that it reinforces to me the importance of maintaining a good relationship with my children. Again, we already have to give permission for our spouses, or our parents, to access our records, this really is no different. Any parent with a normal relationship/non abusive one will see nothing change. What are people worried about unless they shame or abuse their children, is how I see it.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    I am confused on why the author of that article included the fact that's NY supports gay marriage because of course that coincides with privacy laws.
    Haha, I noticed that too. They also mentioned something about this law being "the crush of the communist state" or something like that (can't scroll back and re-read when I reply on my phone) that literally made me lol. Not sure what the law has to do with communism either.

    To answer the OP though, I think that parents do need access to their children's medical records, especially if they are going to be held liable for the insurance and billing (and as long as we refuse to be a single payer healthcare country, OF COURSE the parents should be the ones responsible for the bill. Are there actually 12 year olds out there that have the ability and know how to take care of this stuff on their own? If reproductive issues like access to birth control and abortions are the issue here, then they need to craft a better system to deal specifically with those issues, other than a blanket "mom and dad get the bill but can't know anything about it unless Jr goes online and sets up his own account and....."

    eta: Sorry, it was "communist state control" washing up on American soil.
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 03-13-2013 at 08:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    That is interesting that you equate smoking with adulthood.

    drive 16 but varies by state
    , drink 21
    , smoke 18
    , serve in the military, 18
    own a gun, ? I don't know. Isn't this like 3 in texas? Doesn't this vary by state?
    vote 18

    Which age is it? Frankly I don't want "full responsibility" for my kids till they are 21, nor do I want them to have "full responsibility" at 16. Society gives gradual responsibilities with age. NY's law seems wildly young to me ~ Unfortunately it has been put in place because of things like ~ well, maybe like scary zealouts who would hurt a child who came home pregnant and she needs to be protected, or a child who is a victim of incest and can't turn to her parents. Unfortunately those things exist. I don't know how I feel about the law, other than to say that it reinforces to me the importance of maintaining a good relationship with my children. Again, we already have to give permission for our spouses, or our parents, to access our records, this really is no different. Any parent with a normal relationship/non abusive one will see nothing change. What are people worried about unless they shame or abuse their children, is how I see it.
    Can a 12 yr old really give "informed consent" (meaning they know the procedure, the risks involved) to a major surgery? I don't believe that they can. A 12 yr old is not going to understand everything involved. Plus, I believe doing this takes away all the parents right to sue for malpractice if something does go wrong.

    It's not always that simple.

    Thats not even factoring in if the child(ren) have any sort of long term medical problems. I'm going to have to do guardianship papers for both my sons before they turn 18 because of the issues involved.

  7. #27
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Here is a good piece that explains the law better than the article. Its just an excerpt from a larger piece.

    Generally, under NYS law, minors may only receive medical treatment with the consent
    of their parents or custodians.4
    However, New York has long recognized that minors,
    under certain circumstances, must have the ability to control certain aspects of their
    medical care and their medical information. A minor?s need for medical care or
    information gathered in the course of medical treatment may place them in conflict with
    their parent or guardian. This may arise when a minor seeks a specific form of medical
    treatment, such as reproductive care. But such situations may also be triggered by
    information gathered in the course of routine medical care to which the parent has
    consented. A parental consent or notification requirement or subsequent parental access
    to medical information may discourage the minor from seeking treatment or sharing
    necessary information with their health care provider, damage the minors? relationship
    with their parent or guardian, or put the minor at risk of harm.

    Consequently, all minors in New York have the right to consent to their own treatment in
    certain circumstances and for certain medical conditions, and state law also gives some
    minors the right to consent to all or almost all their medical care.5
    When minors consent
    to their own medical treatment, they are then entitled to confidentiality of those records;
    providers may not disclose information about minor-consented treatment to parents or
    guardians unless they first obtain the minor?s consent to do so. In fact, all minors may
    have the right to voice an objection to the disclosure of medical information gathered in
    the course of their treatment when sharing that information with parents, guardians, or
    others would pose a threat to the minor?s well-being.

    When it is the parent, and not the minor, who has the authority to consent to the minor?s
    care, information about the minor?s treatment usually may be disclosed to the parent.

    New York law, however, allows concern about detrimental effects on the health and wellbeing of a minor patient to trump the parent?s right to access. A health care provider
    must not reveal the information to a patient?s parents if he or she determines that
    disclosure would be detrimental to the provider?s relationship with the minor, or to the
    minor?s relationship with his or her parents.6
    A provider may also withhold information
    from a minor patient?s parents if the minor is over twelve and objects to the disclosure.7
    In such cases, the health care provider can rely on his or her judgment as to whether to
    disclose the information to the minor?s parent.8

    Circumstances in Which Minors Can Consent to Their Own Health Care
    In New York, all minors have the authority to consent to their own treatment in a number
    of situations and, generally, to control access to information related to such treatment.
    By law, minors have the right to consent to care for the following health services on their
    own (without parental involvement or consent):


    ? Reproductive health care, including family planning (i.e.,
    birth control and other contraception),9
    emergency
    contraception,10 abortion,11 pregnancy/prenatal care,128
    including care during labor and delivery and care for sexually
    transmitted infections13;
    ? Mental health services under many circumstances;14
    ? Certain alcohol and drug abuse services;15
    ? HIV testing (although parental consent is generally required for a minor to
    receive medical treatment for HIV 16; and
    ? Sexual assault treatment.17

    Providers also can treat minors in an emergency without parental consent.18 In this
    instance, access to information may not follow consent. In the case of ?emergency [care]
    which was the result of accidental injury or the unexpected onset of serious illness?,
    medical information can be disclosed to the parent or guardian, 19 unless the disclosure
    would put the minor at risk.


    Additionally, under NYS law, certain categories of minors have a broader right to
    consent to any and all medical care, and therefore, to the confidentiality that accompanies
    consent. Married minors,20 pregnant minors21 and minors who are parents themselves22
    have a statutory right to consent. New York law also gives emancipated minors, the right
    to make their own health care decisions without the consent of a parent or guardian.2
    So first, based on the bold, i think the account given in the article is a matter of poor execution of the laws. I think the information could have been properly disclosed to the parents without any problem.

    And as to the rest mentioned above, i have no problem with it

    The entire PDF can be found here:

    http://nyehealth.org/images/files/Fi...%20version.pdf

    It also gives some actual scenarios for consideration.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 03-13-2013 at 10:57 AM.

  8. #28
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    It truly depends.

    Just like in a divorce case, their is attorney-client privilege between the children and the guardian ad litem. That way children are free to express their concerns and opinions without fear of repercussions with either parent. However, if a minor is charged with a crime, the parents would be a part of the criminal proceedings.

    Likewise, depending on the nature of the medical treatment/visit would determine how much information the parents are privvy to. If it is something like a minor asking about an STD test needs to feel free to be able to talk to the doctor. If the visits are psychiatric, the minor needs to feel free to be honest about what is going on.

    Of course anything that would result in a doctor notifying the authorities should include notifying the parents also.

    In the movie My Sister's Keeper the younger daughter hires a lawyer to be allowed to make her own medical decisions because her mother is having her undergo marrow transplants (?) to save her sister's life. Something like that should involve the child's input on what happens .

    A broken leg? Car accident? Plantar's wart? Yeah, there shouldn't be any dr. - patient confidentiality from the parents.

    I said earlier in the week about my DD's trip to the ER. When they wheeled her to the x-ray/scan area, I had to walk with her but wait outside the door (due to radiation).

  9. #29
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    That is interesting that you equate smoking with adulthood.

    drive 16 but varies by state
    , drink 21
    , smoke 18
    , serve in the military, 18
    own a gun, ? I don't know. Isn't this like 3 in texas? Doesn't this vary by state?
    vote 18

    Which age is it? Frankly I don't want "full responsibility" for my kids till they are 21, nor do I want them to have "full responsibility" at 16. Society gives gradual responsibilities with age. NY's law seems wildly young to me ~ Unfortunately it has been put in place because of things like ~ well, maybe like scary zealouts who would hurt a child who came home pregnant and she needs to be protected, or a child who is a victim of incest and can't turn to her parents. Unfortunately those things exist. I don't know how I feel about the law, other than to say that it reinforces to me the importance of maintaining a good relationship with my children. Again, we already have to give permission for our spouses, or our parents, to access our records, this really is no different. Any parent with a normal relationship/non abusive one will see nothing change. What are people worried about unless they shame or abuse their children, is how I see it.
    Seriously - I don't equate it society does... Yes the age is all different it is silly.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #30
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    This was a 15 year old boy who dislocated his finger, and the parents were not allowed to see his records without consent.
    This was a mis-execution of the existing laws so it if you feel that its wrong you don't have to worry. It shouldn't have happened. The beef that needs to be taken up is with the individual hospital that wouldn't divulge the information.

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