Abortion = Tampering with the Evidence of a Rape?

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Abortion = Tampering with the Evidence of a Rape?

New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As 'Tampering With Evidence'

A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.

House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown (R), would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."

?Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says.


Third-degree felonies in New Mexico carry a sentence of up to three years in prison.

Pat Davis of ProgressNow New Mexico, a progressive nonprofit opposing the bill, called it "blatantly unconstitutional" on Thursday.

?The bill turns victims of rape and incest into felons and forces them to become incubators of evidence for the state,? he said. ?According to Republican philosophy, victims who are ?legitimately raped? will now have to carry the fetus to term in order to prove their case.?

The bill is unlikely to pass, as Democrats have a majority in both chambers of New Mexico's state legislature.

UPDATE: 12:25 p.m. -- Brown said in a statement Thursday that she introduced the bill with the goal of punishing the person who commits incest or rape and then procures or facilitates an abortion to destroy the evidence of the crime.

?New Mexico needs to strengthen its laws to deter sex offenders,? said Brown. ?By adding this law in New Mexico, we can help to protect women across our state.?

Even if you're pro-life, does this law seem like a good idea to you? Does it help "protect women" to threaten to throw them in jail if they abort their rapist's baby? Other thoughts?

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I just don't have the words for this. It's so gross. Why is it the victims always become the criminals in rape cases?

I think a positive pregnancy test is enough evidence. Holy heck.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As 'Tampering With Evidence'

Even if you're pro-life, does this law seem like a good idea to you? Does it help "protect women" to threaten to throw them in jail if they abort their rapist's baby? Other thoughts?

OMGggggggggggg wth is wrong with ppl! I dont have anything polite to say.

Makes no sense.....what about yhose who are raped but do not get preg..doesnt this bill suggest they were not raped?? I think I am feeling sensative these days and this lady is full of it. I can not believe ppl this dumb get elected.

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seriously?

wtf?!?!?

You don't need someone to keep a baby to prove rape or incest. It's called the "evidence kit" where they get swabs and crap. This is just insane.

And what the hell are they going to do after the woman gives birth?

All this would do is push women NOT to report rape or incest.

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Yeah, I found this pretty unbelievable too. For goodness sakes, you don't need to actually give birth to a baby to prove that you were pregnant, or even to get DNA from the baby to prove that the rapist is the father. Further though, I don't think that most rape cases actually involve "we don't believe that man X put his penis inside of you" but more "was it consensual?", and the existence of a baby certainly doesn't speak to that (unless you believe, like Todd Akin, that f it were "legitimate rape", your body would "shut that whole thing down" in which case I suppose you would see the baby as evidence that it wasn't truly rape..:rolleyes:...)

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And what happens during the nine months that she's pregnant? Does he just walk free while the "evidence" is in her womb?

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Yeah, I found this pretty unbelievable too. For goodness sakes, you don't need to actually give birth to a baby to prove that you were pregnant, or even to get DNA from the baby to prove that the rapist is the father. Further though, I don't think that most rape cases actually involve "we don't believe that man X put his penis inside of you" but more "was it consensual?", and the existence of a baby certainly doesn't speak to that (unless you believe, like Todd Akin, that f it were "legitimate rape", your body would "shut that whole thing down" in which case I suppose you would see the baby as evidence that it wasn't truly rape..:rolleyes:...)

P.s. i looked at your ticker and said o m g look how far along you are.....forgetting that I am almost there too! I think my ticker is a little behind. Ive been too lazy to update it.

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"myyams" wrote:

P.s. i looked at your ticker and said o m g look how far along you are.....forgetting that I am almost there too! I think my ticker is a little behind. Ive been too lazy to update it.

Yep, we are both getting very close now!!! Smile

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I am very prolife, but this is WAY over the line. I cannot believe people would even suggest something like this.

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I am also VERY pro-life, but I also agree that this reasoning is over the top. It does not make sense.

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WTF!!!

My jaw dropped when I read this one.

Let's see....if a thief steals my identity and drains my bank account of $1K, is it tampering with evidence if I withdraw the rest of my money to open a new account? (Or continue to the use the same account?)

If a burglar broke my window to enter my house, is it tampering with evidence to replace the window?

If I am assaulted, is getting stitches and treatment for my wounds, is it tampering with evidence.

My ridiculous analogies could go on and on.

Is there a different sentence for rapists if the victim ends up pregnant?

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Double post

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Not sure, but I did read this differently than everyone else. I read it as the rapist would get punished for forcing abortion on their victim. I can see this happening especially in the cases of incest.

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"Rivergallery" wrote:

Not sure, but I did read this differently than everyone else. I read it as the rapist would get punished for forcing abortion on their victim. I can see this happening especially in the cases of incest.

Short of assault, I'm not sure how a rapist can force an abortion on his victim.

I also don't know why they would say "Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says."

It's that "OR" that is problematic. If it were only a law against forcing or coercing someone to obtain an abortion, they wouldn't need the first half of that sentence.

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As it is, the remnants of the pregnancy can be collected in a way that preserves them for DNA evidence if rape or incest has been alleged. This proposal is ridiculous.

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"Spacers" wrote:

As it is, the remnants of the pregnancy can be collected in a way that preserves them for DNA evidence if rape or incest has been alleged. This proposal is ridiculous.

Goodness, it is not even this......it is so insulting to the mother to have to carry inside of her a product of such evil because the government thinks apparently rape by anyone can not exist without a pregnancy. That is the unsaid bottom line. It is sick. For even women who are generally against abortion, they might get one if they were raped. Some wouldn't, some would. But it is a matter of being forced and then further forced. So very sad.

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It was a mistake in wording which has been blown way out of proportion. It was intended to make it a crime for a rapist to force his victim to have an abortion.

A Republican legislator came under fire for her proposed law that, critics said, could lead to felony charges against rape or incest victims seeking an abortion.

On Wednesday Rep. Cathrynn Brown, R-Carlsbad, introduced House Bill 206, which she said was intended to make it a crime for a rapist to force his pregnant victim to have an abortion.

Within hours the bill drew national attention for a section that reads:

"Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime."

That would appear to open up rape or incest victims to felony charges, punishable by up to three years in prison, if they obtain an abortion, reports CBS Affiliate KRQE.

The chairman of New Mexico's Democratic Party called it an "atrocious piece of legislation."

"I was shocked in reading it," Rep. Gail Chasey , D-Albuquerque," told KRQE correspondent Alex Goldsmith. "As an attorney I started looking at it and thought that's not how we gather evidence in a rape anyway, so it doesn't even make sense logically."

"I can't judge her intent, but to me it feels like an extension of the war on women," said Rep. Elizabeth Thomson , D-Albuquerque.

After telling KRQE that critics were simply misreading her bill, Brown later told the station that the language was a mistake made by the bill's drafter, an error she says she missed when reviewing the bill before introducing it.

"When he fixed some of the tampering language in the bill, somehow it just kind of missed the emphasis that I had hoped I'd made clear in the beginning," Brown told KRQE.

Brown will introduce a new bill that makes it clear that rape or incest victims could not be charged with tampering with evidence for getting an abortion.
Another abortion-related proposal has been raised in Santa Fe this session. Rep. Nora Espinoza , R-Roswell, has introduced the "Woman's Right to Know Act" that would require doctors performing an abortion to first show the woman an ultrasound and have her hear a fetus' heartbeat.

Rape-abortion bill causes uproar in N.M. - CBS News

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"myyams" wrote:

Goodness, it is not even this......it is so insulting to the mother to have to carry inside of her a product of such evil because the government thinks apparently rape by anyone can not exist without a pregnancy. That is the unsaid bottom line. It is sick. For even women who are generally against abortion, they might get one if they were raped. Some wouldn't, some would. But it is a matter of being forced and then further forced. So very sad.

So we murder someone because we were raped?

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If you want to term it that way go ahead. It's a legal procedure and we have every right to obtain a safe one thank God.

Not ashamed to say I probably would if I was raped. Can't say for sure 100% until you are there of course but I can picture it.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Short of assault, I'm not sure how a rapist can force an abortion on his victim.

Father rapes daughter. Father takes daughter to get an abortion to hide the fact that daughter is pregnant. Daughter is scared of Father so goes along with abortion.

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"Rivergallery" wrote:

So we murder someone because we were raped?

We exert our very legal options.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Short of assault, I'm not sure how a rapist can force an abortion on his victim.

I also don't know why they would say "Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime," the bill says."

It's that "OR" that is problematic. If it were only a law against forcing or coercing someone to obtain an abortion, they wouldn't need the first half of that sentence.

I agree with this. Something is fishy to me, and I sense some backpedalling and cover up of original intent. My suspicious nature doesn't but the whole "my PR dude who wrote the statement effed up and so now we're writing it the way we intended from the get-go".

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"myyams" wrote:

Goodness, it is not even this......it is so insulting to the mother to have to carry inside of her a product of such evil because the government thinks apparently rape by anyone can not exist without a pregnancy. That is the unsaid bottom line. It is sick. For even women who are generally against abortion, they might get one if they were raped. Some wouldn't, some would. But it is a matter of being forced and then further forced. So very sad.

I think what Stacey means by 'remnants of pregnancy' is the tissue/blood etc. that is produced from abortion - so the 'remnants' would have enought DNA to prove who impregnanted the woman.

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

I agree with this. Something is fishy to me, and I sense some backpedalling and cover up of original intent. My suspicious nature doesn't but the whole "my PR dude who wrote the statement effed up and so now we're writing it the way we intended from the get-go".

I kind of agree with you, not enough to say for sure this is what is happening, but I feel like something could be fishy. I base this on how the media itself reported it. They intended for us to perceive it in a certain way when they wrote:

A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.

House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown (R), would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."

I can't honestly say for sure as I can't judge the intention behind either the reporting or the lawmaker. Is this woman very anti abortion? So I at least someone somewhere wanted us to react the way we reacted.

ETA, plus she herself is an attorney and probably good at manipulating word placement and use. So having an error that bad is..fishy.

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

I think what Stacey means by 'remnants of pregnancy' is the tissue/blood etc. that is produced from abortion - so the 'remnants' would have enought DNA to prove who impregnanted the woman.

Yes I know what she meant. The whole issue is so disturbing.

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"myyams" wrote:

We exert our very legal options.

So legal = morally right... hummm

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"Rivergallery" wrote:

So legal = morally right... hummm

But in America we are allowed to have our own moral compasses. We are allowed to decide what is right and wrong and act within the current legal climate.

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"Rivergallery" wrote:

So legal = morally right... hummm

I did not detect one iota of moral right in what she was saying, only the legal right. You are the one bringing the morals into the topic. This is a legal challenge, not a moral one.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Father rapes daughter. Father takes daughter to get an abortion to hide the fact that daughter is pregnant. Daughter is scared of Father so goes along with abortion.

I would hope that is already illegal and we would not need a new law to be able to arrest someone for this.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

I would hope that is already illegal and we would not need a new law to be able to arrest someone for this.

The rape is already illegal, I'm not so sure about the forced abortion.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

The rape is already illegal, I'm not so sure about the forced abortion.

I would say that yes, forcing someone to have an abortion is definitely illegal. It would amount to assault, coersion, fraud....I don't really know what.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

The rape is already illegal, I'm not so sure about the forced abortion.

I'm not sure either. I have heard of lots of teen girls who have said their parents forced them to have an abortion. I don't think by assault, but more like heavy pressure and threats maybe. But generally those cases where not in incestual types of rapes or rape at all, more like consensual sex producing pregnancy. I don't really know what the laws are but it'd be interesting to find that out.

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"Rivergallery" wrote:

So legal = morally right... hummm

Legal means I decide for myself whether it is moral or not in choosing the act/behavior.

Self defense is legal murder. Don't think I could bring myself to do it. Owning a gun is legal; I don't believe it is morally right to keep a gun in homes where someone who has a documented history of mental illness lives. Premarital sex is legal yet many choose not to. Adultery is legal, yet not necessarily moral for many people. I can judge all of the above as immoral by my standards. But do I get to legisilate my own morality and force you to follow my morals?

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I find it absolutely impossible to believe that someone who didn't want an abortion could be forced into it. There is so much counseling required, and a waiting period and then more counseling. If you have someone with you, they have to leave the room for at least part of the counseling, that's required just to make sure that you're not being forced or coerced. They give you tons of opportunity to say no, to change your mind, to say that you're being forced into it. They'll ask that person to leave the premises, they'll ask someone else to come get you. They give you all kinds of information about support services and counseling services, how to apply for welfare, emergency shelters if you can't go home, where to get low-cost prenatal care. You basically have to insist loud & clear that you really do want to have the abortion. Anyone who claims they were forced or coerced is either lying about it, or they lied to their abortion counselors.

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"Spacers" wrote:

I find it absolutely impossible to believe that someone who didn't want an abortion could be forced into it. There is so much counseling required, and a waiting period and then more counseling. If you have someone with you, they have to leave the room for at least part of the counseling, that's required just to make sure that you're not being forced or coerced. They give you tons of opportunity to say no, to change your mind, to say that you're being forced into it. They'll ask that person to leave the premises, they'll ask someone else to come get you. They give you all kinds of information about support services and counseling services, how to apply for welfare, emergency shelters if you can't go home, where to get low-cost prenatal care. You basically have to insist loud & clear that you really do want to have the abortion. Anyone who claims they were forced or coerced is either lying about it, or they lied to their abortion counselors.

If you think a young girl being raped by her father would never be intimidated enough to go through all that without telling someone you are deluding yourself. Especially after some of the undercover videos that have surfaced from Planned Parenthood where the counselors were going out of their way to help girls have an abortion even when the girl stated that she was underage and the father of the baby was in his thirties. The situation in this video it could have easily been her father or an uncle or someone that told her to go in and lie to get an abortion, and the counselors are sure not going to try and talk them out of it.

Anti-abortion movement gets a new-media twist - Los Angeles Times

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I agree with Gloria to the extent that some victims of rape could be easily coerced into an abortion by a family member or person who exerts some kind of control over her....maybe even the rapist himself, especially if the rapist is part of the family. I'm trying to imagine myself at 13 or 14 or so...being raped and then not knowing what's best. You're young, naive, and probably a lot more willing to be reassured that abortion is the only way.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Father rapes daughter. Father takes daughter to get an abortion to hide the fact that daughter is pregnant. Daughter is scared of Father so goes along with abortion.

2 things: 1. If it isn't already illegal to force someone to have an abortion (whether you raped them first or not) then it should be. But at that point we also need to define what "force" really means. Even a dad that raped his daughter can't actually perform an abortion or force her to submit to one, short of assault. I'm fine with saying that people aren't allowed to force or even heavily coerce others to have an abortion, but that seems like it's a separate issue from rape because coercion happens whether the woman is raped or not.

2. Again, I'm looking at the actual wording of the proposed law. It said "Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion," If it was simply against coercing women to get abortions, the only part they needed is the part after the "or" (i.e. "Tampering with evidence shall include compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion,") I agree with Claire that it sounds like a lot of backpedaling to me once the Rep realized that she was getting huge backlash.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

2 things: 1. If it isn't already illegal to force someone to have an abortion (whether you raped them first or not) then it should be. But at that point we also need to define what "force" really means. Even a dad that raped his daughter can't actually perform an abortion or force her to submit to one, short of assault. I'm fine with saying that people aren't allowed to force or even heavily coerce others to have an abortion, but that seems like it's a separate issue from rape because coercion happens whether the woman is raped or not.

That may be exactly why this law is needed, because they could add on extra charges even if they couldn't prove the abortion was forced. All they would have to show is that abortion was to hide evidence of the rape. And I disagree that he couldn't force his daugther to have an abortion. The threat of violence is just as real as actual force.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

That may be exactly why this law is needed, because they could add on extra charges even if they couldn't prove the abortion was forced. All they would have to show is that abortion was to hide evidence of the rape. And I disagree that he couldn't force his daugther to have an abortion. The threat of violence is just as real as actual force.

This doesn't make sense to me. Pregnancy may be evidence of sex but not necessarily rape.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

That may be exactly why this law is needed, because they could add on extra charges even if they couldn't prove the abortion was forced. All they would have to show is that abortion was to hide evidence of the rape. And I disagree that he couldn't force his daugther to have an abortion. The threat of violence is just as real as actual force.

How would they prove that the abortion was to hide the evidence of the rape without proving that it was forced? I mean, if a dad rapes his daughter and she wants an abortion just because she wants one (understandably, IMO) then the abortion isn't really to hide evidence of the rape. IMO it seems like it would be next to impossible to prove that the abortion was to hide evidence of the rape without proving that it was forced; otherwise I think it's a fair assumption that perhaps the daughter simply didn't want a daily, forever reminder of her ordeal.

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"ethanwinfield" wrote:

This doesn't make sense to me. Pregnancy may be evidence of sex but not necessarily rape.

For an underage girl evidence of sex IS evidence of rape, since a young girl cannot consent to sex.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

How would they prove that the abortion was to hide the evidence of the rape without proving that it was forced? I mean, if a dad rapes his daughter and she wants an abortion just because she wants one (understandably, IMO) then the abortion isn't really to hide evidence of the rape. IMO it seems like it would be next to impossible to prove that the abortion was to hide evidence of the rape without proving that it was forced; otherwise I think it's a fair assumption that perhaps the daughter simply didn't want a daily, forever reminder of her ordeal.

I don't think the intent would matter. Unless he tells the clinic to save the evidence he would still be tampering with evidence.

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Where do you draw the line with coersion? I think we all agree on the rapists and child abusers, but what about the unemployed boyfriend who says, we really can't afford to have a kid right now? What about the mom who tells her lazy adult daughter, if you want to have a baby then you need to find your own place to live? The decision to have a child sometimes requires discussion by all the parties, and I shudder to think that an honest open discussion about what changes this child would bring, could lead someone into court on coersion charges when a mom decides after the fact that she maybe made the wrong decision. Even worse, as punishment when the boyfriend leaves her. I can see that happening.

And I disagree that he couldn't force his daugther to have an abortion. The threat of violence is just as real as actual force.

Wow, sounds like a real winner that we want raising even more people! :rolleyes: I'm flabbergasted that some of you think that a pregnant girl needs to be protected from potentially being forced or coerced into having an unwanted abortion, but don't seem to make the connection that her being pregnant in the first place might be indicative of an abusive or neglectful home, and that having a baby is NOT in her best interest. I don't think having a baby is EVER in the best interest of a 12yo or even 15yo. And I'd say that probably the odds are far greater that she might feel forced or coerced into continuing an unwanted pregnancy than into having an unwanted abortion. Many of you on this board have said if your teenaged daughter was pregnant, that you would not assist her in any way to get an abortion even if she wanted one. That should be illegal IMHO.

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"Spacers" wrote:

Where do you draw the line with coersion? I think we all agree on the rapists and child abusers, but what about the unemployed boyfriend who says, we really can't afford to have a kid right now? What about the mom who tells her lazy adult daughter, if you want to have a baby then you need to find your own place to live? The decision to have a child sometimes requires discussion by all the parties, and I shudder to think that an honest open discussion about what changes this child would bring, could lead someone into court on coersion charges when a mom decides after the fact that she maybe made the wrong decision. Even worse, as punishment when the boyfriend leaves her. I can see that happening.

Wow, sounds like a real winner that we want raising even more people! :rolleyes: I'm flabbergasted that some of you think that a pregnant girl needs to be protected from potentially being forced or coerced into having an unwanted abortion, but don't seem to make the connection that her being pregnant in the first place might be indicative of an abusive or neglectful home, and that having a baby is NOT in her best interest. I don't think having a baby is EVER in the best interest of a 12yo or even 15yo. And I'd say that probably the odds are far greater that she might feel forced or coerced into continuing an unwanted pregnancy than into having an unwanted abortion. Many of you on this board have said if your teenaged daughter was pregnant, that you would not assist her in any way to get an abortion even if she wanted one. That should be illegal IMHO.

I agree with your first paragraph. However, maybe I am reading it wrong, but to the bolded. If you are pro-choice, then IMO it should be pro-choice for everyone. No matter what her circumstances a woman or girl should have the final say over her own body. It should never be OK to force or coerce someone to have an abortion.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I don't think the intent would matter. Unless he tells the clinic to save the evidence he would still be tampering with evidence.

But if she wants the abortion, then what, she can't have one because that's tampering with the evidence?

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So much going on here. First, I believe abortion is very wrong and should not be legal. However, it is currently legal and that is what we have to work with. When someone goes to their parents/boyfriend/spouse/employer or whoever and tells them they are pregnant in undesirable conditions they are going to advise them one way or the other. They might even advise them strongly and tell them they are going to be out on their ear if they do/don't have an abortion. I believe that is probably a conversation that happens on a daily basis. This is not the same as forcing someone to have an abortion. I agree that you can not FORCE someone to have an abortion unless that abortion happened in a back ally/room somewhere. You can tell them you will brake up with them or kick you out of the house if they do not, but I do not believe that to be against the law (pretty rotten though). I would guess a great many of people having an abortion do so because their loved one is not in support of them keeping the pregnancy and they feel they have no choice.

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"ftmom" wrote:

I agree with your first paragraph. However, maybe I am reading it wrong, but to the bolded. If you are pro-choice, then IMO it should be pro-choice for everyone. No matter what her circumstances a woman or girl should have the final say over her own body. It should never be OK to force or coerce someone to have an abortion.

I am absolutely pro-choice and I recognize that sometimes that means people I think shouldn't be having kids, will have kids. I don't think KIDS should be having kids for all kinds of reasons, long-term physical & emotional health being #1. And I don't believe that someone else's pro-life beliefs and ability to restrict your travel to & from an abortion clinic for two days should be the reason anyone has a baby, no matter her age.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

But if she wants the abortion, then what, she can't have one because that's tampering with the evidence?

The law clearly wasn't intended for that and they have already said they are going to change the wording to make it clear that the law is for the rapist and NOT the victim.

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"Spacers" wrote:

I am absolutely pro-choice and I recognize that sometimes that means people I think shouldn't be having kids, will have kids. I don't think KIDS should be having kids for all kinds of reasons, long-term physical & emotional health being #1. And I don't believe that someone else's pro-life beliefs and ability to restrict your travel to & from an abortion clinic for two days should be the reason anyone has a baby, no matter her age.

The only way you could force a parent to consent to a surgery that had life long consequences is to take them to court and remove their parental rights. You can not even remove a sliver on a minor child without their parents consent, why would you give a minor a major thing like an abortion without parental consent.

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In many states, teenagers have autonomy to their reproductive decision-making. If you're "old enough" to have sex, you are old enough to make the decisions that go along with it. It should never be someone else's decision when you have a child. That's why I'm pro-choice and anti-parental consent laws.

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"Spacers" wrote:

In many states, teenagers have autonomy to their reproductive decision-making. If you're "old enough" to have sex, you are old enough to make the decisions that go along with it. It should never be someone else's decision when you have a child. That's why I'm pro-choice and anti-parental consent laws.

I am thankful not to live in such a State.

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