Animals V Human beings

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Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261
Animals V Human beings

This is a bit of a fluff one...

A girl in work bought a hamster about a week ago and she found out it's leg was broken. She brought it to the vet who in the end had to amputate.... our colleague starting saying to her things like 'Why don't you just have it put to sleep and buy a new one?!'.... 'It would cost you a lot less to just get a new one!' Another colleague got really mad and started comparing the hamster to a child. 'If your child broke his leg, would you have him put to sleep?' etc etc.

So, I just wondered what you all thought? Is it right to compare the two? Does an animal have less rights than a human being?

Joined: 01/06/03
Posts: 1175

I love my pets dearly... but I do not ever put them in the same category as my children.

My aunt, on the other hand, has no children and treats her pets as if they were her children... so I could see her doing the same as your coworker before I would.

Everybody's different Smile

boilermaker's picture
Joined: 08/21/02
Posts: 1984

I think it would depend on the difference in price-- are we talking $50 or $300?

My pets are *SO* not my kids. IMO the only people who assert that are people who haven't had kids yet or never will. You can''t even compare the two in my world.

Personally, I don't think I'd do much to save a $3 hamster that I just got. They don't have long life spans, aren't particularly intelligent or able to form really close bonds with humans.....so I likely would euthanize and get a new one. Frankly, I think that is more humane, as a hamster isn't going to understand why it is in so much pain from an amputation (I feel the same way about people who put their dogs through chemo, you can't explain to your mutt that their misery is "worth it"-- kwim?)

elleon17's picture
Joined: 01/26/09
Posts: 1981

My pets are very dear to me and it would break my heart to acknowledge a horrible truth if I could not afford to help them (surgery, cancer, etc).

That said, they are not the same as my children. I would give my own life for my child, I can't say I would give my own life for my cat.

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1316

Animals are not humans! I have a pet peeve (no pun intended) when it comes to people who compare animals to humans. As much as you love your pet, it's not a child.

As for a hamster, I would weigh the costs. When it comes to amputating the leg or putting the hamster down, whichever cost less is what I would do.

RebeccaA'07's picture
Joined: 11/19/07
Posts: 1628

I adore my dogs and I would do what I could to help save their lives or pay for any health condition. But I don't ever compare them to my child, totally different level.

carg0612's picture
Joined: 09/23/09
Posts: 1554

I too love my doggy (see "furbaby"). Of course I use "furbaby" in a term of endearment type of way - not that I consider her an actualy baby!

I would do what is financially responsible to help our dog. I love her and I will miss her when she is gone one day but I could never ever put her on the same plane as my children.

My sister was totally over the top with her dog. Speant thousands of dollars on this dog. Well when she finally had children she also realized that the dog takes a back seat. She has a different dog now after the other one passed but she refers to him as her DH's dog. Funny how someone who is nutty about their pet changes once children are introduced.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

I like to eat animals.

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1316

"Potter75" wrote:

I like to eat animals.

Mmm, me too!

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"boilermaker" wrote:

I think it would depend on the difference in price-- are we talking $50 or $300?

My pets are *SO* not my kids. IMO the only people who assert that are people who haven't had kids yet or never will. You can''t even compare the two in my world.

Personally, I don't think I'd do much to save a $3 hamster that I just got. They don't have long life spans, aren't particularly intelligent or able to form really close bonds with humans.....so I likely would euthanize and get a new one. Frankly, I think that is more humane, as a hamster isn't going to understand why it is in so much pain from an amputation (I feel the same way about people who put their dogs through chemo, you can't explain to your mutt that their misery is "worth it"-- kwim?)

ITA with this.

When our (much loved) dog got cancer, we chose not to do surgery or chemo even though they were offered as options that would extend her life for another year or so. It was expensive, which was part of our decision, but more than that, I couldn't see putting her through that ordeal. It would have been for us, not being ready to let go of her. So we chose to go the route of keeping her comfortable while she still had a fairly good quality of life, and then putting her down once things started to go downhill. It was really sad, and I still miss her 3 years later, but I completely believe that we made the kindest and most loving decision for her.

In the end, first of all, no, pets are not people, and they are not our children. I can't imagine anyone who actually has childen would compare the two. We love them, they are part of the family, but they are not people. In making medical decisions about my pets, I would consider what is financially responsible for our family (I am not going to put my family thousands of dollars into debt for a pet - IMO that is irresponsible.) I would consider what is kindest for the pet (again, I'm not putting my dog through chemo no matter how much we love her and want to keep her with us.) And honestly, I would consider the life span of the animal. If the animal only usually lives to be 10, and the animal is 9, I'm probably not going to go to heroic measures to save it.

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 1681

Honestly, the idea of someone amputating a hamster's leg is completely absurd to me.

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

I would cut my losses and have the hamster put down (okay, like I even feel weird about saying 'put down' - seems like a term for dogs or cats). I'd like to say that it's because I couldn't justify spending the money on an animal, because I HAVE spent the money - thousands and thousands of dollars on my yellow lab puppy because he had parvovirus and would have died without intense treatment. I just wouldn't spend the money on a hamster. Period. Same with a budgie or a fish or a turtle. Yes, I know I'm kind of ranking animals and that some are more important to me than others, and yes I guess I'm quantifying their lives in dollars I would spend to keep them alive or well. Oh well. Do I think of humans being above animals? I guess I do that too. My kids are part of the human race (well, at least they seem to be, most of the time) and I don't put any animal above them in importance. That's pretty subjective though. There's lots of nice animals I'd save before a few select people I know. Wink

Joined: 03/16/15
Posts: 53852

I love animals. I have a dozen quail growing out in my yard right now! They will be tasty come october!

Animals are not people. I believe in respecting all life, but I do not believe all life is created equal or for the same purpose.

I would save the human over the dog in a burning building. Wink

Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261

"boilermaker" wrote:

My pets are *SO* not my kids. IMO the only people who assert that are people who haven't had kids yet or never will. You can''t even compare the two in my world. `

So I was wondering, is it 'okay' for people who don't have kids to put animals on a higher pedestal?

I have another example. My Mum's manager is gay and has pets (infact, I think he has a couple of kids from his marriage which makes this even more shocking!). Anyway, a lady who works with them got a phone call one morning to inform her, a very close friend had been hit by a car and killed. She was so upset, she wanted to leave work but the manager wasn't around and she left anyway. When he came back and my Mum explained where and why she had left, his response was 'Oh for goodness sake, I came into work when my dog died!'.... I mean, really??

Is that disrespectful or a fair comment?

xx

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1316

"Minx_Kristi" wrote:

So I was wondering, is it 'okay' for people who don't have kids to put animals on a higher pedestal?

I have another example. My Mum's manager is gay and has pets (infact, I think he has a couple of kids from his marriage which makes this even more shocking!). Anyway, a lady who works with them got a phone call one morning to inform her, a very close friend had been hit by a car and killed. She was so upset, she wanted to leave work but the manager wasn't around and she left anyway. When he came back and my Mum explained where and why she had left, his response was 'Oh for goodness sake, I came into work when my dog died!'.... I mean, really??

Is that disrespectful or a fair comment?

xx

Disrespectful! I understand the loss of a pet. When our 16yo dog put down I was devastated. She was part of the family and it was awful to "lose" her. But a dog dying and a human dying are two different thing and shouldn't be compared.

Before I had my son, I had a co-worker say to me "You're going to love being a mother! Being a mom is the best job I ever had!" the lady that told me this has no kids, she has 3 dogs...

Joined: 01/18/06
Posts: 1626

I've had injured pets (small ones like a hamster) and the nicest, kindest thing you can do for them is to put them out of their misery. THAT is what's best for a pet of that size.

If all life were created equal, I'd not have killed the hell outta that spider that was running from my toddler the other day.

Until I birth a litter of puppies, pets are pets. Not children.

Joined: 01/06/03
Posts: 1175

"azin_may" wrote:

Disrespectful! I understand the loss of a pet. When our 16yo dog put down I was devastated. She was part of the family and it was awful to "lose" her. But a dog dying and a human dying are two different thing and shouldn't be compared.

ITA.

Last month my ds's pet rabbit got sick and died... understandably the kids were totally devestated and took it VERY hard... probably just as hard as if they'd lost a (human) family member. But they are kids. As an adult, while I was definitely sad for the kids and was quite upset years ago when I had to put my cat down, I can distinguish between the loss of a pet vs a human being... it's two completely different things and totally NOT comparable. And, in the case of the rabbit... if we'd have known she was sick beforehand (no symptoms), we would've done the kindest thing and had her put down.

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"JorgieGirl" wrote:

I've had injured pets (small ones like a hamster) and the nicest, kindest thing you can do for them is to put them out of their misery. THAT is what's best for a pet of that size.

If all life were created equal, I'd not have killed the hell outta that spider that was running from my toddler the other day.

Until I birth a litter of puppies, pets are pets. Not children.

Agree. Bees, mosquitoes, ants in the house - we kill those, but bugs and other critters outside - we totally leave those alone. We talk about it frequently actually. I want the kids to respect the animal's habitat and home and that it's not necessary and sometimes just plain cruel to squish bugs on the sidewalk.

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Agree. Bees, mosquitoes, ants in the house - we kill those, but bugs and other critters outside - we totally leave those alone. We talk about it frequently actually. I want the kids to respect the animal's habitat and home and that it's not necessary and sometimes just plain cruel to squish bugs on the sidewalk.

We do the same thing. Inside is our home, outside is theirs. He gets it until he goes to daycare and this little boy thinks it's fun to step in ant piles (which shouldn't be on the playground to begin with!) and then kill them when they run. Soooo many antbites later, ds has finally accepted the lesson that it doesn't pay to be mean just to be mean.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"azin_may" wrote:

Disrespectful! I understand the loss of a pet. When our 16yo dog put down I was devastated. She was part of the family and it was awful to "lose" her. But a dog dying and a human dying are two different thing and shouldn't be compared.

Before I had my son, I had a co-worker say to me "You're going to love being a mother! Being a mom is the best job I ever had!" the lady that told me this has no kids, she has 3 dogs...

Agree with the first paragraph.

To the second paragraph, I'm sorry, but MAJOR :rolleyes:.

One of my coworkers doesn't have kids, and is quite admandant about never ever ever wanting kids (like constantly talking about how much they annoy her and how she hates them). But she and her long term boyfriend have 5 cats, and they get each other cards "from the cats" for Mother's Day and Father's Day. She even has a picture of all of the cats in a frame that says "I

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

I don't know. Someone I know wanted kids desperately and her husband couldn't have them and he refused to adopt. She hated animals and put up with the dog that he wanted. Then that one died and the one they got after that has definitely filled a void in her life. I think it's one thing to choose not to be a "real" mom and dad and treat your pet as if it's a child, but I do think it's helpful for those who didn't get that chance. I wouldn't want someone to say something like the things being said on this thread about someone like her because I know he makes her happy (the dog). It will be her only chance to ever "mother" anything.

Sometimes it's hard to hear them tell a story about their pet right after we tell a story about Jason and I realize that even though they don't know it, it's not the same thing at all, but in their mind it is and why should anyone else get to judge them for that?

Though I'm really suprised she stayed with him for the 35 years they've been married. I know she was upfront and honest about wanting to be a mother and if my SO was callous enough to disregard my wish to adopt, I'd probably contact a divorce lawyer.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

Lillie - I understand what you are saying, and I do know that pets can really help to fill that void in people's lives when they are looking to nurture and love something but can't or won't have kids.

I know that I shouldn't be so judgey on this topic, because again, it doesn't affect me and I'm sure they have their reasons for considering thier pets to be their kids. But my honest gut reaction when someone is really going on about their "kid" (when they mean their pet) is an internal eye roll, particularly when it is someone who has said time and time again how much they hate kids and don't want kids. It's the whole "I don't want kids, but I still want to consider myself a Mommy" thing that I don't understand and find irritating. I would be much more charitable if it was someone that I knew that had wanted kids but couldn't have them.

Joined: 01/06/03
Posts: 1175

"wlillie" wrote:

I don't know. Someone I know wanted kids desperately and her husband couldn't have them and he refused to adopt. She hated animals and put up with the dog that he wanted. Then that one died and the one they got after that has definitely filled a void in her life. I think it's one thing to choose not to be a "real" mom and dad and treat your pet as if it's a child, but I do think it's helpful for those who didn't get that chance. I wouldn't want someone to say something like the things being said on this thread about someone like her because I know he makes her happy (the dog). It will be her only chance to ever "mother" anything.

Sometimes it's hard to hear them tell a story about their pet right after we tell a story about Jason and I realize that even though they don't know it, it's not the same thing at all, but in their mind it is and why should anyone else get to judge them for that?

Though I'm really suprised she stayed with him for the 35 years they've been married. I know she was upfront and honest about wanting to be a mother and if my SO was callous enough to disregard my wish to adopt, I'd probably contact a divorce lawyer.

I don't disagree that it can fill a void/etc. However, I still don't agree that their "fur-child" in anyway is on the same level as a human child, kwim? My aunt's 3 dogs and a cat are her "kids"... almost to the extreme. Calling herself "mom" to them... you can only talk to them a certain way... she complains that my mother treats her dog "like a dog" (that one always makes me :rolleyes: and :lol:)... etc. She even has kept the ashes of her last 2 dogs and a cat. In her case, I'd say she's tiptoeing the line of considering them on the same level. Would I ever say anything to her about it? Of course not... but I do think it's a bit much.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Fur baby makes me gag. All I picture is like some Ewok kid or something. You mean CAT. Or, DOG. A fur baby is gross.

That said, I don't care if people equate their pet to my child. I will laugh in their face, however Smile

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3186

"Potter75" wrote:

Fur baby makes me gag. All I picture is like some Ewok kid or something. You mean CAT. Or, DOG. A fur baby is gross.

That said, I don't care if people equate their pet to my child. I will laugh in their face, however Smile

This. Completely.

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Potter75" wrote:

Fur baby makes me gag. All I picture is like some Ewok kid or something. You mean CAT. Or, DOG. A fur baby is gross.

That said, I don't care if people equate their pet to my child. I will laugh in their face, however Smile

Yup.

And to add, when people use animals to fill a void and treat them like their child, they are doing that animal a disservice and not fullfilling that animals need. Animals are not people and should not be treated as such.

If I had the money, I might fix the hamsters leg. But my family would come first and if spending the money would take away from the needs of my family, then I would not. The other side is putting a hamster under anesthesia and doing a surgery of that magnitude would actually put the hamster in harms way and may do more harm then good in the long run. Especially on an animal tht only lives about 3 years.

Starryblue702's picture
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

In no way can you compare a human to an animal, I don't care what kind of animal it is. I love my yorkie and would do anything I could to save her if anything happened to her, but in no way does she come close to one of my children. I also get upset when I see those ads on TV asking for help for animals that are abused. Now of course it's horrible and inhumane to abuse any animal, but I would never give money to animals before children in need, and there are millions of hungry children in just our country alone.