Anyone looking to secede?

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Alissa_Sal's picture
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Anyone looking to secede?

Secession petitions filed on White House Web site

From states across the country, Americans have filed petitions on the White House Web site seeking to secede from the union and form new state governments.

While most of the petitions come from states that supported Mitt Romney in last week?s election, a few swing states and even the deep blue Northeast are represented.

Petitions have been filed for Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas.

?We petition the Obama Administration to peacefully grant the State of Alabama to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government,? reads the Alabama petition. The following text is the same in most of the 20 filed so far:

[INDENT] As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:

?When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature?s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.?

??Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government??
[/INDENT] Most of the petitions have a few thousand signatures; many signers appear to be from other states. Under the ?We the People? program, launched last year, the White House will respond to any petition that receives 25,000 or more signatures within 30 days. Anyone over the age of 13 can create a petition. Previous popular petitions demanded the White House beer recipe (success) and marijuana legalization (no success).

The petitions from Louisiana and Texas, however, are approaching the threshold for a response. They were the first two states represented, followed by Alabama. Petitioners only have to put a first name and last initial on the site.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) raised the idea of secession back in 2009, but he has since made clear that he has no interest in it. Tennessee Rep. Zach Wamp (R) suggested in 2010 that some states might have to ?consider separation from this government? should the leadership in Washington not change. ?I hope that the American people will go to the ballot box in 2010 and 2012 so that states are not forced to consider separation from this government,? he said.

So is secession a reasonable response if you don't like the outcome of a democratic election ("democratic" in this sense not meant to reference the Democratic party, but instead the process of democracy)? Do you think states should be allowed to secede if that is what the majority of the people in that state want? Would you want your state to secede if you did not like the outcome of a presidential election (generally speaking - obviously this election would be relevant to Conservatives, but an election where a Conservative won such as 2000 and 2004 or future elections would be relevant to liberals.) Any other thoughts?

smsturner's picture
Joined: 05/11/09
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You know Alissa, I've been mulling over posting something on this for a couple days.
It's insane. How freaking crazy. Talk about acting like children throwing a tantrum. 'I don't like this, so i'm going to run away! *stomp stomp stomp*'

Is it just me, or is it wwaaaayyyy over the top of any other election result reaction ever.

Here's another that got me thinking:

Arizona woman runs down husband with car for not voting: police - Yahoo! News

GloriaInTX's picture
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I don't think we should secede but I am big on state's rights and think the Federal Government is taking on waaay more than what is allowed in the Constitution, so I can understand their frustration. Hopefully having a Republican Congress will hold the tide back enough for the next 4 years so that we can continue the fight to return the power back to the states where it was meant to be.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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I guess I do think if the majority (I am thinking super majority, like 75%) of a State wanted to succeed they should be able to.

I live in TN. I can see it happening that if the Government succeeded in making tax payers having to pay for abortions there would be a cry to succeed. The social values between two groups of people are hugely different. One group of people believes that abortion is murder and no different than murdering already born children. They believe Same Sex Marriage is wrong, as well as other social issues. The other group of people feel poller opposite. I am not sure how these issues will be rectified. I know many people here that feel a civil war is inevitable (Not saying I am one of them, just that I know people that feel this way). There are a great many people here who believe abortion is just as wrong as slavery was and are not willing to just sit back and let it happen. I would guess there would be a great many people in TN that would succeed if they could.

Now I grew up in WNY, and I know for fact the vast majority of WNY wishes they could be a separate state than NYC.

ClairesMommy's picture
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We regularly have this political debate in Canada. Quebec has tried separating, several times. I'm so sick of it now that I'm almost at the point of saying "Fine, go, but leave our military, currency, fed govt., health system, banks, etc. etc. etc. at the door when you leave. And oh ya, I'm super happy I don't have to sing the national anthem in two languages anymore." Their new premiere is a separatist. They're crazy, and I see another referendum in our not too distant future.

Sorry, bit of a tangent, but a debate that I've crossed sides in through the past 20 years. At first I was like "Oh no. Don't go, Quebec is part of Canada's multicultural fabric blah blah blah!!" and now I don't care. The only part that really concerns me is that the country will literally be geographically severed in two pieces.

Quebec Votes 2012: The most dangerous election in decades - Canada, Quebec Election - Macleans.ca

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

We regularly have this political debate in Canada. Quebec has tried separating, several times. I'm so sick of it now that I'm almost at the point of saying "Fine, go, but leave our military, currency, fed govt., health system, banks, etc. etc. etc. at the door when you leave. And oh ya, I'm super happy I don't have to sing the national anthem in two languages anymore." Their new premiere is a separatist. They're crazy, and I see another referendum in our not too distant future.

Sorry, bit of a tangent, but a debate that I've crossed sides in through the past 20 years. At first I was like "Oh no. Don't go, Quebec is part of Canada's multicultural fabric blah blah blah!!" and now I don't care. The only part that really concerns me is that the country will literally be geographically severed in two pieces.

Quebec Votes 2012: The most dangerous election in decades - Canada, Quebec Election - Macleans.ca

Honestly, this may be because I'm feeling super grouchy today, but this is kind of how I feel. Of course, there is a petition for my own beloved CO, and I certainly don't want us to secede (not that we would anyway - anyone can start a petition, but we went blue this year so presumably more of our folks are happy about Obama winning than are unhappy). But kind of in general, I feel like "If you don't care about being a part of the USA just because your side lost an election, and you would rather pick up your toys a go home....don't let the door hit you." And yes, leave all of our federal aid, military, currency, et cetera at the door when you go.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Sorry - double post

KimPossible's picture
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People in Upstate NY joke about seceding, but any NYer with a right head about them would be crazy to seriously suggest it. Speaking not a western NYer, but as an upstate NYer. It would be terrible for upstate, as much as we complain about the city getting a lot of the money and attention, it also creates a lot of money and attention. And its not like CT or NJ who are small and close enough to mooch off the benefits of the city. The rest of NY is too big.

And really the same goes for any state that would think about seceding from the Union. If they honestly think they would be better off, i think they are sorely mistaken.

I was listening to something on the radio once...it was about Lincoln, and the question was why he wasn't ready to just let states secede from the union, and it talked about how he had a vision..an accurate one, on the benefits of being a united country...for everyone, instead of little broken up countries.

I don't know what would be 'appropriate' circumstances to just let a state secede. I hesitate to say "just because they want to" is a good enough reason.

GloriaInTX's picture
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I wish California would secede then the rest of us wouldn't keep having to foot the bill because they keep going bankrupt and the Federal government has to bail them out. Smile

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I agree Alissa. Filing a petition to secede and being granted the opportunity should be there but doubt that it would ever actually happen.

I just don't understand why "We have differing opinions" means "We need to get out of here!" My father and I have differing thoughts and I never think I want to emancipate myself from my family.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I wish California would secede then the rest of us wouldn't keep having to foot the bill because they keep going bankrupt and the Federal government has to bail them out. Smile

Based purely on economics (which states receive more federal money than they give) I would prefer to keep CA (which has given a surplus of 18B over the past 20 years) and get rid of most of the red states (which are aptly named! ;))

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

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"Jessica80" wrote:

I just don't understand why "We have differing opinions" means "We need to get out of here!" My father and I have differing thoughts and I never think I want to emancipate myself from my family.

No, but you are not being forced to pay for things that you are morally against. Just last night I was reading articles about the Hobby Lobby and how it is going to really suffer due to the Healthcare mandates. Basically pay for abortions or pay millions of dollars in fines. The government should not be able to do that and I can understand the desire to not be apart of such a country. Right now we have freedom of religion, but there are people who are fighting with all of their being to take away all religion from anywhere but your own home. I can see how the Pilgrims wanted to go somewhere new where they could practice there own religion how they see fit. I can also see how if the country continues down the path that it is headed today that people will just want to be able to be in a place that they can be left alone to worship however they see fit. That means not having to pay outrageous fees and taxes to support things that are morally abhorrent to you.

I know there were many people who were utterly upset to have to pay for wars that they did not support.

ClairesMommy's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

I can also see how if the country continues down the path that it is headed today that people will just want to be able to be in a place that they can be left alone to worship however they see fit. That means not having to pay outrageous fees and taxes to support things that are morally abhorrent to you.

I know there were many people who were utterly upset to have to pay for wars that they did not support.

Isn't the death penalty funded by taxpayers?

Joined: 08/17/04
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But paying into insurance doesn't mean you agree with all that it covers. I have several qualms with how much medication is prescribed in this country but I don't get a say on where my $ goes on that.

The Pilgrims were looking for a place to worship openly. You can still worship openly.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Jessica80" wrote:

The Pilgrims were looking for a place to worship openly. You can still worship openly.

Yes we can now, but there are people that wish we could not and want to make it so we can not. I can understand wanting to succeed if we ever got to that point.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Yes we can now, but there are people that wish we could not and want to make it so we can not. I can understand wanting to succeed if we ever got to that point.

Who is this that is telling you you cannot openly worship?

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

Isn't the death penalty funded by taxpayers?

The death penalty at least varies by state. If you do not agree with it, just move to a different state.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Based purely on economics (which states receive more federal money than they give) I would prefer to keep CA (which has given a surplus of 18B over the past 20 years) and get rid of most of the red states (which are aptly named! ;))

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

California is going down the tubes pretty quickly it won't be long til they are in the red.

Moody's: More Calif. cities could go bankrupt - CBS News

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Yes we can now, but there are people that wish we could not and want to make it so we can not. I can understand wanting to succeed if we ever got to that point.

Like who? I've never seen a legitimate push to deter any sort of public worship except that it cannot be state sanctioned (so for example, a school cannot lead a class prayer because that is construed as a state sanctioning religion, but individual students are free to pray to their hearts' content as long as they aren't disrupting class by being loud (they aren't allowed to disrupt class anyway, not just because of religion.)

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Jessica80" wrote:

Who is this that is telling you you cannot openly worship?

I just said we can openly worship now. The direction that the country is moving is to not be able to worship in any public place. There are people who are fighting to make this a secular/Atheist country. I can understand (Not saying it is what I would want or do, but that I can understand the point) of wanting to live in a State that was not hostile to all things religious.

wlillie's picture
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I think the United States would be amazed how many of the military would leave service to go to whatever is formed by the states that secede. I also think it would be amazing to see how people that live in states where government programs aren't abused are going to feel when they get the losers we have here. It'll be awesome to watch the line of traffic and clogged interstates as the trash and scum pack their bags and start heading north. It'll be hilarious to see how fast people's opinions change when those they've been defending are actually in their neighborhoods trashing things just for the fun of it. It'd also be nice to have those states use the constitution we currently have and show the other states what it's actually supposed to be like instead of having the Federal government in everything everywhere.

I don't think any of the states will get enough signatures and I'm in the Air Force for another 3 years no matter what, but it's pretty fun to imagine. Smile

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

California is going down the tubes pretty quickly it won't be long til they are in the red.

Moody's: More Calif. cities could go bankrupt - CBS News

I'm willing to take my chances on CA AND agree to let TX secede (you guys are up!) as long as you take OK with you. I'll even throw in AR and GA (both also up) if you'll take LA or MS or AL, your choice! Lol

(I hope members of all states know that I'm totally joking around right now. My only real opinion on secession is that if a state truly didn't want to be part of the union any more, I don't think we should go to war to keep them.)

mom3girls's picture
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I am not sure that I believe any state wants to actually secede, but I do believe that a lot of states would like to make a point about power being put back into the states hands. Oregon has a petition to secede going right now, I am not sure I would sign it, but I would love to read how it is worded.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

I think the United States would be amazed how many of the military would leave service to go to whatever is formed by the states that secede. I also think it would be amazing to see how people that live in states where government programs aren't abused are going to feel when they get the losers we have here. It'll be awesome to watch the line of traffic and clogged interstates as the trash and scum pack their bags and start heading north. It'll be hilarious to see how fast people's opinions change when those they've been defending are actually in their neighborhoods trashing things just for the fun of it. It'd also be nice to have those states use the constitution we currently have and show the other states what it's actually supposed to be like instead of having the Federal government in everything everywhere.

I don't think any of the states will get enough signatures and I'm in the Air Force for another 3 years no matter what, but it's pretty fun to imagine. Smile

Oh, so you're assuming that as part of your secession you get to export the people you don't want? See, I was picturing a more all or none deal. If a state secedes, the whole state secedes, not just the individual people who are considered "desirable." Lol

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I'm willing to take my chances on CA AND agree to let TX secede (you guys are up!) as long as you take OK with you. I'll even through in AR and GA (both also up) if you'll take LA or MS or AL, your choice! Lol

(I hope members of all states know that I'm totally joking around right now. My only real opinion on secession is that if a state truly didn't want to be part of the union any more, I don't think we should go to war to keep them.)

You guys can have North LA, North AL and North MS. Smile

wlillie's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Oh, so you're assuming that as part of your secession you get to export the people you don't want? See, I was picturing a more all or none deal. If a state secedes, the whole state secedes, not just the individual people who are considered "desirable." Lol

I'm saying they'll move on their own. Wink

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

The death penalty at least varies by state. If you do not agree with it, just move to a different state.

Do you agree with it?

smsturner's picture
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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

Isn't the death penalty funded by taxpayers?

Exactly what I was thinking. I am against the dealth penalty in 100 ways, but I don't complain that it's paid for by part of our taxmoney...

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Oh, so you're assuming that as part of your secession you get to export the people you don't want? See, I was picturing a more all or none deal. If a state secedes, the whole state secedes, not just the individual people who are considered "desirable." Lol

Ugh. Calling everyone you don't like trash and scum makes me half want to cry and half want to throw up. It actually kind of sounds like what hitler was going for doesn't it? Everyone that's not like me is trash and scum and deserves to starve to death or run like hell, but I certainly don't want them around.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I'm willing to take my chances on CA AND agree to let TX secede (you guys are up!) as long as you take OK with you. I'll even throw in AR and GA (both also up) if you'll take LA or MS or AL, your choice! Lol

(I hope members of all states know that I'm totally joking around right now. My only real opinion on secession is that if a state truly didn't want to be part of the union any more, I don't think we should go to war to keep them.)

You can have the east cost and the west coast and we will take the middle Smile That way you can ban McDonalds and sodas and have government sponsored "meat free" Mondays all you want and just leave us alone.

San Francisco supervisors approve meat-free Mondays | abc7news.com

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"smsturner" wrote:

Exactly what I was thinking. I am against the dealth penalty in 100 ways, but I don't complain that it's paid for by part of our taxmoney...

This isn't even tax money though. They want these companies to pay directly for insurance that covers the morning after pill that they classify as an abortion.

wlillie's picture
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Are you trying to say I'm like Hitler? :confused: Are you trying to imply I said everyone not like me deserves to starve to death? If so, how is her post considered acceptable but I get dinged for pointing out how stupid her posts are?

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Wait, and this is important, does CO count as West Coast or the middle???? Biggrin

ClairesMommy's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

I think the United States would be amazed how many of the military would leave service to go to whatever is formed by the states that secede. I also think it would be amazing to see how people that live in states where government programs aren't abused are going to feel when they get the losers we have here. It'll be awesome to watch the line of traffic and clogged interstates as the trash and scum pack their bags and start heading north. It'll be hilarious to see how fast people's opinions change when those they've been defending are actually in their neighborhoods trashing things just for the fun of it. It'd also be nice to have those states use the constitution we currently have and show the other states what it's actually supposed to be like instead of having the Federal government in everything everywhere.

I don't think any of the states will get enough signatures and I'm in the Air Force for another 3 years no matter what, but it's pretty fun to imagine. Smile

Do you meant the states that defect, so to speak, and start their own country?

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Susan, I get what you are trying to say about dehumanizing people, but I also agree that comparing someone to Hitler over calling someone "trash" is over the top and not okay.

And yes Lillie, I will ding anyone who says "Your posts are stupid." That's a no-brainer. Smile

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

Do you meant the states that defect, so to speak, and start their own country?

Hahahahahahahahahaha

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Wait, and this is important, does CO count as West Coast or the middle???? Biggrin

Well CO kind of messes things up... maybe everyone in CO and UT could switch places?

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"mom3girls" wrote:

I am not sure that I believe any state wants to actually secede, but I do believe that a lot of states would like to make a point about power being put back into the states hands. Oregon has a petition to secede going right now, I am not sure I would sign it, but I would love to read how it is worded.

This is more of what I was trying to say. I am grumpy today and not doing well at getting my point across.

"ClairesMommy" wrote:

Do you agree with it?

This is something that my feelings are not settled on. I could not debate it one way or the other.

ClairesMommy's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Hahahahahahahahahaha

See, because I think that the defecting states would have a heck of a time borrowing the constitutional rights of citizens from a country they loathe enough to actually leave. I have a feeling the constitution will stay exactly where it is...with the United States of America, of course with an amendment or two or three or four.

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"wlillie" wrote:

You guys can have North LA, North AL and North MS. Smile

With all the immigration policies we put up? LOL never happening. All yours!

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"Jessica80" wrote:

With all the immigration policies we put up? LOL never happening. All yours!

that's the irony. The US policies are a joke. So you guys would continue to get the people we wouldn't want because they'll want to continue living the lives they currently have. Whether they are legal or not. The racial ratio of illegal immigrants would just become more balanced. LOL

Constitution - I wasn't saying the original US would lose it, I was saying the new country would actually use it. Copy it and actually follow it instead of playing with it willy nillly. I Nominate Ron Paul for the first UnUnited States President. Smile

The original US can keep Colorado, but has to give us Colorado Springs or Durango.

smsturner's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Susan, I get what you are trying to say about dehumanizing people, but I also agree that comparing someone to Hitler over calling someone "trash" is over the top and not okay.

And yes Lillie, I will ding anyone who says "Your posts are stupid." That's a no-brainer. Smile

Yeah, you're right it's over the top. I just HATE that anyone is fine with the 'throw away people' theory. It's just disgusting to decide you only want rich, beautiful people that agree with you to live in your country. :rolleyes:

wlillie's picture
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OMG:puke2:. Can you please point out where I (or anyone else) said anything of the sort?

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

that's the irony. The US policies are a joke. So you guys would continue to get the people we wouldn't want because they'll want to continue living the lives they currently have. Whether they are legal or not. The racial ratio of illegal immigrants would just become more balanced. LOL

Constitution - I wasn't saying the original US would lose it, I was saying the new country would actually use it. Copy it and actually follow it instead of playing with it willy nillly. I Nominate Ron Paul for the first UnUnited States President. Smile

The original US can keep Colorado, but has to give us Colorado Springs or Durango.

Sorry sweets, if you want any part of CO you will have to invade us for it. Smile

GloriaInTX's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

Yeah, you're right it's over the top. I just HATE that anyone is fine with the 'throw away people' theory. It's just disgusting to decide you only want rich, beautiful people that agree with you to live in your country. :rolleyes:

We don't want the rich beautiful people... they can stay in California or New York where they are and make everyone there miserable. Please.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

Yeah, you're right it's over the top. I just HATE that anyone is fine with the 'throw away people' theory. It's just disgusting to decide you only want rich, beautiful people that agree with you to live in your country. :rolleyes:

Lillie did not say that she only wants rich beautiful people that agree with her to live in her country.

I believe is saying that people who want to remain on government assistance would move out because her country wouldn't offer it, but that's just a guess.

Either way, I think you're blowing her words out of proportion.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I happen to think that the beautiful people are in CO...*preens*

wlillie's picture
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Then can we switch Colorado with Ohio?

wlillie's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I happen to think that the beautiful people are in CO...*preens*

But you aren't rich and you don't agree with me. I need ot go pump but I really really hate pumping so sorry I'm so very silly and active.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

But you aren't rich and you don't agree with me. I need ot go pump but I really really hate pumping so sorry I'm so very silly and active.

I'm just glad that we can use this thread to be silly and let off some steam after all of the tension of the election season.

You should get a pumping bustier so you can type and pump at the same time. Take your mind off of pumping.

You can't have CO! If you don't want OH, that's fine, we'll take OH. Good sturdy state. I don't think they'd go along with secession anyway. We'll also take MI, IL, WI, IA, and MN.

wlillie's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I'm just glad that we can use this thread to be silly and let off some steam after all of the tension of the election season.

You should get a pumping bustier so you can type and pump at the same time. Take your mind off of pumping.

You can't have CO! If you don't want OH, that's fine, we'll take OH. Good sturdy state. I don't think they'd go along with secession anyway. We'll also take MI, IL, WI, IA, and MN.

Budget Cuts (which are good!). I'm in a Fing Cubicle (instead of my beautiful semi-solitary office that I shared with a guy who was always deploying) surrounded by 8 military guys in a building that literally has one other woman. I have to pump in the Fing shower because it's a Fing Safety Violation to have the windows covered in the offices. Anyway, off to the shower room to gross out an entire population of veterans and active duty men who would prefer I not use that room for pumping but have no better solution so they just shower at the gym now!

MN wouldn't actually go with ya'll. They love the 2nd amendment as much as they love their mothers.

eta-IA & WI too.

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Posts: 2299

"wlillie" wrote:

Budget Cuts (which are good!). I'm in a Fing Cubicle (instead of my beautiful semi-solitary office that I shared with a guy who was always deploying) surrounded by 8 military guys in a building that literally has one other woman. I have to pump in the Fing shower because it's a Fing Safety Violation to have the windows covered in the offices. Anyway, off to the shower room to gross out an entire population of veterans and active duty men who would prefer I not use that room for pumping but have no better solution so they just shower at the gym now!

MN wouldn't actually go with ya'll. They love the 2nd amendment as much as their mothers.

The military doesn't provide bfing employees a place to pump? That's disgraceful.

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