Thread: Anyone looking to secede?

But if abortion is considered evil by these states that are pro life what does it matter. I know many people that are against abortion for the reason I described.

What about women who are further along and get the diagnosis that the baby will not survive. What happens to them?

This happened in a different country, but a lady literally just died in Ireland because even though the hospital knew she was miscarrying, they wouldn't terminate because the fetus still had a heartbeat. So of course, now they're both dead.

Woman 'denied a termination' dies in hospital - The Irish Times - Wed, Nov 14, 2012

I think that it is not the federal government and also not the state government to tell women and doctors that they cannot have on demand abortions. And I think this is the kind of tomfoolery that happens when they are banned; doctors may be unsure what is legal with sticky situations such as where the baby still has a heartbeat, but the woman's life is at risk.

All that aside, I think there are some basic human rights that the entire country should live by. I mean, would it be cool if some states legalized slavery or made laws against women in the workforce, assuming that they could pass the laws by a majority vote? Those are social issues, and I do think that if a state tried to pull that off, the federal govt should come in and pistol whip them over it.

Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal

I think that it is not the federal government and also not the state government to tell women and doctors that they cannot have on demand abortions. And I think this is the kind of tomfoolery that happens when they are banned; doctors may be unsure what is legal with sticky situations such as where the baby still has a heartbeat, but the woman's life is at risk.

So would you be ok with the federal government going in and saying it was ok to kill any child under the age of 5? In many people's opinion there is no difference.

Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers

So would you be ok with the federal government going in and saying it was ok to kill any child under the age of 5? In many people's opinion there is no difference.

I have never heard this opinion.

Originally Posted by Jessica80

I have never heard this opinion.

You have never heard the opinion that it is no more wrong to kill an unborn baby than it is to kill a 5 year old? I think you would find a great many pro life people feel killing a baby is killing a baby regardless of the age.

Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers

You have never heard the opinion that it is no more wrong to kill an unborn baby than it is to kill a 5 year old? I think you would find a great many pro life people feel killing a baby is killing a baby regardless of the age.

I have heard that opinion, but IMO it's not equivilent. As I have said before, there is really no other time when the life of one person is so dependent on the use of another person's body. In the case of a 5 year old, if the mother cannot or does not want to care for them, they can be placed under the state's care. This is simply not the case for a fetus prior to the point of viability.

To try to draw the best analogy I can (again, imperfect though it may be) I would not support the state stepping in and telling mothers that if their child needs a kidney, they must donate their own kidney. If a state did make that law, I would support the federal government swooping in and saying "No, people have a basic human right to their own bodies." Don't get me wrong, I would personally give my son my kidney or even my heart if he needed it. I just don't think that the state should be in the business of telling people that they don't have the right to the sole use of their own bodies.

Alissa, I get where you are coming from and I know many people do not believe an unborn baby is alive. I was just surprised that someone would have never heard the POV that an unborn baby is a baby with the same rights as any other person.

Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal

To try to draw the best analogy I can (again, imperfect though it may be) I would not support the state stepping in and telling mothers that if their child needs a kidney, they must donate their own kidney. If a state did make that law, I would support the federal government swooping in and saying "No, people have a basic human right to their own bodies." Don't get me wrong, I would personally give my son my kidney or even my heart if he needed it. I just don't think that the state should be in the business of telling people that they don't have the right to the sole use of their own bodies.

That analogy only works if you say that mother is not only allowed to not give up her kidney but can kill the child since he is going to die anyway without a new kidney.

Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers

So would you be ok with the federal government going in and saying it was ok to kill any child under the age of 5? In many people's opinion there is no difference.

Sorry, I'm at work and I read this wrong. I read it as that many people think it is okay to kill any child under 5 not that you think there is no difference from an abortion and ending a child's life that is already born.

My apologies. I have heard this before

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

That analogy only works if you say that mother is not only allowed to not give up her kidney but can kill the child since he is going to die anyway without a new kidney.

I get what you're saying (and it is an imperfect analogy, as I said) but in the case of the kid with the kidney, the kid is not yet using the mother's body (until he gets the kidney) and he may yet get a kidney from another source, et cetera. Not to sound completely cold, but there is no practical reason to kill a child that is waiting on a kidney, until we get to the point of a euthanasia debate if you know what I mean.

In the case of the fetus, there is literally no way that the fetus will live outside of the mother's body. I suppose we could make laws that doctors have to try to remove the fetus in a way to keep them alive during removal and then *let* them die, but that seems more cruel to me.