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  1. #101
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Alissa, I get where you are coming from and I know many people do not believe an unborn baby is alive. I was just surprised that someone would have never heard the POV that an unborn baby is a baby with the same rights as any other person.
    I do believe an unborn baby is alive. Alive, and human. I'm not a huge fan of abortion, despite being pro-choice. My problem is not that I don't think that an unborn baby is alive, but that I don't think that any living person has an automatic right to the use of someone else's body, not even to save their lives. I also do not want the government making medical decisions that I feel are best left between women and their doctors.
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  2. #102
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I do believe an unborn baby is alive. Alive, and human. I'm not a huge fan of abortion, despite being pro-choice. My problem is not that I don't think that an unborn baby is alive, but that I don't think that any living person has an automatic right to the use of someone else's body, not even to save their lives. I also do not want the government making medical decisions that I feel are best left between women and their doctors.

    Don't you think that if we can handle Good Samaritan laws on a state by state basis that we could probably handle abortion laws on a state by state basis? They are both social issues, both affect the lives of two people, both could compel the one person to save the life of the other. Yet no one throws a hissy fit about the "rights" of the Good Samaritan in being able to walk away from a dying person they can save.

  3. #103
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    I would have to do more research on Good Samaritan laws to be able to draw a comparison.

    My point is, do you think that states should be able to make their own laws about any social issue? Again, if a state wanted to make a law that says women are not allowed to work or own property, would you expect the federal governement to stay out of it?
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  4. #104
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I would have to do more research on Good Samaritan laws to be able to draw a comparison.

    My point is, do you think that states should be able to make their own laws about any social issue? Again, if a state wanted to make a law that says women are not allowed to work or own property, would you expect the federal governement to stay out of it?
    Yes, I would expect the federal government to stay out of it.
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  5. #105
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    That....amazes me.
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    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  6. #106
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    The problem with states making the decision about abortion is that everyone should have the same right to the same medical care in every state. Not every woman who wants an abortion can simply travel to another state, due to cost or lack of transportation or ill health. It's made even more difficult in states that require a waiting period; you not only have to get to the clinic, you have to get there and stay there for 2 or 3 days. I don't think any of us who is pro-choice is "pro-abortion." I think every one of us would prefer unwanted pregnancies not happen in the first place. But for those that do happen, for those women who don't want to continue their pregnancy for whatever reason, the right to access medical care should not be dependent on which state you live in.

    A woman in Ireland died recently because the hospital refused to perform an abortion even though she was dying of blood poisoning because her miscarriage was taking far too long. Do we really want this kind of thing to happen in America?
    Savita Halappanavar, Death: Irish Woman Denied Abortion Dies From Blood Poisoning
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

  7. #107
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    There are different laws in each state already that guarantee we don't have the same access to health care. I don't think the Ireland thing is applicable because the whole point is that it was the entire country wiht the same laws. It actually disproves the idea that the federal government should be making these decisions!

  8. #108
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Personally I find it despicable that people in different states don't have the same right to health care, and that's one reason why I support universal health care. And the Ireland situation absolutely is applicable. Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and yet it doesn't allow women to get the medical care they need even to save their own lives, and makes it difficult for women in ill health to travel to other parts of the UK to get the medical care they want. I can easily picture certain anti-choice states in *our* union attempting the same thing. Sometimes the federal government is right to prevent states from doing whatever they want.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

  9. #109
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    Lillie, I think though things like abortion laws should be national laws. And I'm ok with abortion for reasons like conditions that endanger the life of the mother. The hospital in Ireland despite being anti abortion in the strictest sense does allow it for cases which endanger the life of the mother.

    In 1992, Ireland’s Supreme Court ruled that abortion should be allowed if the mother’s life was in danger but the law has never been changed, forcing thousands of women to travel abroad for terminations every year.
    Pregnant woman dies in Ireland after being denied an abortion - Telegraph
    I think though drs were nervous about what to do. Plus I think they did not properly care for this woman. It is also unclear to me if her membranes ruptured because of some infection or if she got infection due to the ruptured membranes. I've not read a clear answer. Anyway, they should have cared more for that poor woman.

    So for this reason, I think a woman should have the right to choose. My choice shouldn't affect someone else's. I think we should all agree to allow our own morality decide for us what we should do in cases such as these - on a national level to ensure protection and correct application of law.
    Aisha

  10. #110
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    I'm not debating whether elective abortion is right or wrong. There is no changing my mind. I'm also not debating one woman's death in Ireland as the scenario that would happen if our government allowed the states to choose. That's honestly what one would call a "red herring". I feel sorry for the family, but the chance of that happening here is very slim and it obviously doesn't even happen that often in Ireland or it wouldn't have made international news.

    I'm debating that the federal government shouldn't be the one to decide whether elective abortions are legal or not. What happens if a Republican gets elected with a Congress/House that are all Republican and decide to make it illegal? Would you be more willing to admit that it may be better to only give the Federal government the power that they were given in the Constitution and give the rest back to the states where they belong?
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