Bad Moms

51 posts / 0 new
Last post
wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796
Bad Moms

Can you overlook bad parenting in a close friend to maintain the adult relationship?

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

Nope. Although I can't imagine becoming friends with a "bad mom" to begin with. I generally just avoid people with negative energy. I suppose one of my childless friends might become a "bad mom" in the future but I think I'd have seen that potential already.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Yes.

Yes BUT, its really, really freaking hard. Dealing with this in a very close friend going through a very hard time and making some very bad decisions which affect her children. It is very difficult.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

I think it depends on what we're talking about here. I don't need my friends to make all of the same decisions as I do, and I don't even consider the different choices "bad parenting." So, like, if a friend chose to spank, or bottle feed, or something like that, I wouldn't have a problem staying her friend or even think she was a bad parent in the first place. But, if she really *was* a bad parent (like, abusive or neglectful) then no, I wouldn't be able to respect her, so I wouldn't be able to be her friend. But those are pretty extreme examples. What do you mean when you say "bad mom"?

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 1681

Depends.

If it is someone you are already friends with and the "bad mom" side starts emerging then maybe you could look past it. It would be tough though.

However, I doubt that I would strike up a friendship with a stranger who appeared to be a "bad mom".

Joined: 06/04/07
Posts: 1368

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I think it depends on what we're talking about here. I don't need my friends to make all of the same decisions as I do, and I don't even consider the different choices "bad parenting." So, like, if a friend chose to spank, or bottle feed, or something like that, I wouldn't have a problem staying her friend or even think she was a bad parent in the first place. But, if she really *was* a bad parent (like, abusive or neglectful) then no, I wouldn't be able to respect her, so I wouldn't be able to be her friend. But those are pretty extreme examples. What do you mean when you say "bad mom"?

I agree that it would depend as well. There are some parenting decisions that I don't agree with some of my friends, and while some situations could definitely be more ideal, it doesn't mean I stop being friends with them. But it doesn't mean I'll participate in supporting the decisions either if they are attempting to involve me. If the behaviors are 100% clearly abusive to the kids, I would definitely step in to attempt to change the behaviors or seek alternatives to better the situation for the child and if the friend doesn't see me as a friend at that point, so be it.

mom3girls's picture
Joined: 01/09/07
Posts: 1537

I think it would depend on the situation. After the death of her husband a friend of mine started doing some things that most would consider bad parenting. In that situation I knew she needed time to heal and adjust and it was a pretty short time before she was the stellar parent I knew her to be. If there was not an extenuating circumstance and she just started acting like that I would have had to distance myself from her.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

I can't really see how it can "depend." Bad parenting is bad parenting, it's not a different decision or different style, it's bad parenting. I'm not fond of spanking but I don't think spanking occasionally makes someone a bad parent. Spanking for every single infraction, or spanking so hard that it's abusive, or spanking in a way that belittles the child (pulling their pants down in public) are signs of a bad parent. Not buckling your 6-year-old into seatbelt rather than a booster seat doesn't make you a bad parent; not buckling your 6-year-old up at all does make you a bad parent. Letting your 2-year-old watch an episode of PBS while you make dinner is what I call a "happy family decision." Letting your 2-year-old watch TV all day long while you sleep off a hangover is bad parenting in a couple of different ways. There's nothing "depending" about any of those things. They should not be done. Period.

"mom3girls" wrote:

After the death of her husband a friend of mine started doing some things that most would consider bad parenting.

In that case I'd chalk it up to grieving rather than that she became a bad parent. :bighug:

Joined: 06/04/07
Posts: 1368

"Spacers" wrote:

I can't really see how it can "depend." Bad parenting is bad parenting, it's not a different decision or different style, it's bad parenting. I'm not fond of spanking but I don't think spanking occasionally makes someone a bad parent. Spanking for every single infraction, or spanking so hard that it's abusive, or spanking in a way that belittles the child (pulling their pants down in public) are signs of a bad parent. Not buckling your 6-year-old into seatbelt rather than a booster seat doesn't make you a bad parent; not buckling your 6-year-old up at all does make you a bad parent. Letting your 2-year-old watch an episode of PBS while you make dinner is what I call a "happy family decision." Letting your 2-year-old watch TV all day long while you sleep off a hangover is bad parenting in a couple of different ways. There's nothing "depending" about any of those things. They should not be done. Period.

In that case I'd chalk it up to grieving rather than that she became a bad parent. :bighug:

In some of the examples you gave, don't you think that your friend may need some time of divine intervention? If that wasn't normal behavior to begin with (which I'm guessing it wouldn't be the case when initially becoming friends) and you were friends with them for an extended time, wouldn't you see these as possible flags for underlying issues they may not be revealing? Such as a bad hangover and letting a kid watch t.v. all day - depression? I wouldn't just assume that their parenting skills will always be that way and see it as more situational (hopefully). I guess I've never seen relationships to be so black and white.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

I'm not a believer in anything divine, so no, that would never be a thought of mine. As I said before, I can't imagine becoming friends with someone who treats her child in those ways. There would be no interest at all in creating a friendship. A good friend whose behavior changed, sure, I would say something & see if there's an underlying problem. But to me there is absolutely no excuse for treating your child in those ways and those actions say something to me about that person's true character. I've been drunk a few times, but I always make sure my kids will be safe until I'm able to care for them again. I've been depressed but I still buckled them up, and I got medication so I wouldn't stay depressed. I've been so angry I want to beat the crap out of them, but I didn't because it's not how you treat a child. If my "friend" chooses bad parenting, whatever the reason for it, or chooses to not address a problem that is causing the bad parenting, then I'm out. I don't allow negative people in my life. Especially negative people who are bad parents. Life is too short to be surrounded by bad energy.

fuchsiasky's picture
Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 955

It depends. There are lots of things that I do or don’t do that differ from what my friends do. There are things that my friends do that make my cringe a little but are not actually bad (like letting the toddler drink the slurpee). I can overlook that. But if there is something going on that is actually harmful (neglect, abuse etc) to the child I couldn’t overlook it.

There is a family that I know where I cannot agree with what they do. It is not neglectful or abusive but I can’t tolerate the situation. (The dad is a patriarch and a deadbeat!) The decision that this dad is making have made me lose respect for him. How can I be friends with someone that I don’t respect?

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

Could I OVERLOOK it? No. But that doesnt mean that I wouldnt be their friend. Especially if we had been friends before this behavior started, whether it be a change in their parenting or a new child.

I would definitely make an effort to change their behavior, either through education or trying to help them resolve the root of a behavior change. I have never had a friend start making unilaterally bad parenting choices before, but I do know that in times of stress I have had friends start making one or two stupid parenting choices because it was 'easier' or avoided a conflict they felt they couldnt handle at the time. Often all it takes is pointing out the safety or (not sure the right word to use) future impact concerns for them to realize what they are doing.

Having said that, this 'bad parent' would not necessarily want to remain friends with me, cause I could not stay silent about what they were doing, and would eventually find help for the kids if I felt they were at risk and Mom wasnt trying to change.

fuchsiasky's picture
Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 955

I love the phrase "happy family decision". That is great.

fuchsiasky's picture
Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 955

"ftmom" wrote:

Could I OVERLOOK it? No. But that doesnt mean that I wouldnt be their friend. Especially if we had been friends before this behavior started, whether it be a change in their parenting or a new child.

I would definitely make an effort to change their behavior, either through education or trying to help them resolve the root of a behavior change. I have never had a friend start making unilaterally bad parenting choices before, but I do know that in times of stress I have had friends start making one or two stupid parenting choices because it was 'easier' or avoided a conflict they felt they couldnt handle at the time. Often all it takes is pointing out the safety or (not sure the right word to use) future impact concerns for them to realize what they are doing.

Having said that, this 'bad parent' would not necessarily want to remain friends with me, cause I could not stay silent about what they were doing, and would eventually find help for the kids if I felt they were at risk and Mom wasnt trying to change.

This. If I saw behaviours that I thought were harmful I would definitely be speaking up!

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

"ftmom" wrote:

Could I OVERLOOK it? No. But that doesnt mean that I wouldnt be their friend. Especially if we had been friends before this behavior started, whether it be a change in their parenting or a new child.

I would definitely make an effort to change their behavior, either through education or trying to help them resolve the root of a behavior change. I have never had a friend start making unilaterally bad parenting choices before, but I do know that in times of stress I have had friends start making one or two stupid parenting choices because it was 'easier' or avoided a conflict they felt they couldnt handle at the time. Often all it takes is pointing out the safety or (not sure the right word to use) future impact concerns for them to realize what they are doing.

Having said that, this 'bad parent' would not necessarily want to remain friends with me, cause I could not stay silent about what they were doing, and would eventually find help for the kids if I felt they were at risk and Mom wasnt trying to change.

This.

Abusive parent, no. Bad parent, sure. My aunt is a bad parent but her son is 20 now and I love her anyway.

Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261

I pretty much agree with the post above.

Abusive, no. Bad parenting, yes.

Not everyone knows how to parent the 'right' way so you can't judge them for doing what you think is wrong.

As for abusing their kid, I'd make sure family were notified and if nothing was done from there I'd go down SS route!

xx

carg0612's picture
Joined: 09/23/09
Posts: 1554

"Minx_Kristi" wrote:

Abusive, no. Bad parenting, yes.

Ditto.

I don't think my older sister is a great parent, in fact sometimes I think she downright stinks at it. But she loves her children and has never done anything I could remotely consider to be abusive so I cringe, call her names in my head, and let it go.

On the other hand I actually tried to get my DH to file suit against his ex for what I considered to be neglectful/abusive behavior. His ex let her roommate watch the boys during the summer while ex worked. The problem is that the roommate worked 3rd shift so she slept during the day while the kids had to fend for themselves. Unsafe, stupid, selfish, cowardly, and borderline neglect.

Then another time the ex missed their regular meeting time and place for child pick up and DH had to drive to her house. When he got there about 5 cars were parked in the drive and on the street and the roommate and 3 other people using the place as a flop house informed him that ex was "sick" (he could hear her puking in the background). When the kids came out they were unwashed, unfed, and exhausted. He asked for DSS#2's glasses (which he NEEDS to be able to see). Ex starting screaming at him to get off her property - that's when he got the wiff of stale beer off her foul breath. She threw a beer bottle at him while the kids were standing right there with him.

He did not file a motion for full custody. I pushed him but he wouldn't do it. Since he did not take pictures or record the incident there is no proof. But I told him if anything like this happens again I would file a police report and call child services.

I cannot stand for behavior like that. That is abusive and flat out stupid.

CamelNoodle's picture
Joined: 07/28/04
Posts: 908

No.

We have friends that we met when our youngest were 2. By the time they were 4 my son no longer wanted to play with the kid because he was mean and aggressive and the parents did nothing about it. The last straw was when they were over at our house for a holiday party and the kids were playing in the bedroom. A parent walked in and the bad mom's child was straddling a younger weaker child and was pounding on him. The mom said to her child "You shouldn't do that" and that's it. If it were me, I'd have packed up the child and left the party, apologized to the parents of the kid, apologied to the host and made the child do the same. We avoided the family from there on out.

Joined: 02/07/12
Posts: 463

I was once friends with a girl and we had our kids at the same time, she in my opinion was a bad parent. She left her young child(under 1) at home alone well she went for a joy ride around the neighbourhood, then she went to a party with the child and her boyfriend and they got so hammered she laughed about putting a diaper on the child backwards the next day. Can I say our friendship changed after those moments yes, did I still talk to her yes, did we hang out as often no.

Would I ever leave my child with her for any reason at all. HELL NO!!!!

Did I think about calling CPS, certainly.. but it was my word against hers and there was now way I could prove it.

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

Neglect falls back into the abuse category for me. That's different from just "bad" parenting. Maybe you need to define the term?

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

I don't think bad parenting means you are a bad parent. I have made many, many mistakes in raising my children. Some of them could be considered bad parenting. Of course, I could look at the decisions of my friends and think the same. Just because I wouldn't do something, doesn't mean it is bad.

I would have to assume most people think they are making good parenting decisions. Even my worst decisions were made with good intentions - I just didn't know better (or other stuff was going on at the time).

I have noticed that too many times with my friends, co-workers, and acquaintances, that when the adult relationship between mother and father falls apart, one or both suddenly see that other parent as bad, unfit, abusive, etc.

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"freddieflounder101" wrote:

This.

Abusive parent, no. Bad parent, sure. My aunt is a bad parent but her son is 20 now and I love her anyway.

I agree with this. I will say though as my kids get older, they play more at their friends houses. If a freind was a bad parent, depending on the term, I would not let them be incharge of my kids. I wouldn't defriend them but I can see how it might become a problem (as far as them wanting to know why the kids can't play at their house).

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"ethanwinfield" wrote:

I don't think bad parenting means you are a bad parent. I have made many, many mistakes in raising my children. Some of them could be considered bad parenting. Of course, I could look at the decisions of my friends and think the same. Just because I wouldn't do something, doesn't mean it is bad.

I would have to assume most people think they are making good parenting decisions. Even my worst decisions were made with good intentions - I just didn't know better (or other stuff was going on at the time).

I have noticed that too many times with my friends, co-workers, and acquaintances, that when the adult relationship between mother and father falls apart, one or both suddenly see that other parent as bad, unfit, abusive, etc.

This is so true. I have to believe that the vast majority of people love their kids and want the best for them, but they don't always "know better" or they just have other stuff going on. Myself included - I can think of plenty of moments where, in retrospect, I was not on top of my game. But that doesn't necessarily make me a "bad parent" - I love my son like crazy and try to do my best for him. I'm just an imperfect person, which translates into an imperfect parent.

Starryblue702's picture
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

It depends on what my definition of "bad parenting" would be. If I thought that they were doing something blatantly wrong (like abuse in any way) then yes, I would have to end the friendship (and call CPS!). But if we're talking about a difference in child rearing, like whether to bottle/breast feed, to circumcize or not... things like that... even if I disagreed that wouldn't be grounds for terminating the friendship. My BFF has very different views on disciplining than I do, for example. I feel that she's always been way too hard on her boys, even when they were babies, expecting behaviors from them that they weren't old enough for, if that makes sense. Like, if they did something that any two year old would do, she would act as though he was six years old and doing that, and discipline him accordingly. It's always bugged me, but it's her style of parenting, and she's not abusing them in any way, so I stay out of it. It's definitely been hard to bite my tounge though!

Andy1784's picture
Joined: 09/18/08
Posts: 1372

"ethanwinfield" wrote:

I don't think bad parenting means you are a bad parent. I have made many, many mistakes in raising my children. Some of them could be considered bad parenting. Of course, I could look at the decisions of my friends and think the same. Just because I wouldn't do something, doesn't mean it is bad.

Agreed. So long as the parent loves their child and isn't abusive/neglectful I wouldn't necessarily rule out a friendship.

One of my very best friends is someone who I consider to have rather bad parenting skills. Her kids are horribly behaved because of it, and honestly, I can only put up with small doses of it at a time. So playdates are limited. She, however, is an amazing friend that loves me and my family and has proven that she is always there for me so I find the annoyance of her "bad parenting" to be worth overlooking since we hang out in adults only settings 75% of the time or more. I get a lot out of our friendship as does she.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"Spacers" wrote:

I'm not a believer in anything divine, so no, that would never be a thought of mine. As I said before, I can't imagine becoming friends with someone who treats her child in those ways. There would be no interest at all in creating a friendship. A good friend whose behavior changed, sure, I would say something & see if there's an underlying problem. But to me there is absolutely no excuse for treating your child in those ways and those actions say something to me about that person's true character. I've been drunk a few times, but I always make sure my kids will be safe until I'm able to care for them again. I've been depressed but I still buckled them up, and I got medication so I wouldn't stay depressed. I've been so angry I want to beat the crap out of them, but I didn't because it's not how you treat a child. If my "friend" chooses bad parenting, whatever the reason for it, or chooses to not address a problem that is causing the bad parenting, then I'm out. I don't allow negative people in my life. Especially negative people who are bad parents. Life is too short to be surrounded by bad energy.

You're kids aren't safe watching TV?

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

"LiveFreeOrDie" wrote:

You're kids aren't safe watching TV?

When I have my full faculties, yes, they are. But not every child left sitting in front of a TV is going to be safe, especially when their parents are drunk or drugged & are oblivious to what's happening. I know someone IRL who woke up to find her 3yo, who had been left watching TV while mom "napped" her hangover away, had climbed up on top of a dresser. The 3yo had been up there so long she peed her pants. Sad Imagine if the child had fallen off that dresser, or if the house had caught on fire. That child was not safe, not because she was left watching TV, but because she has a bad mom.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Spacers" wrote:

When I have my full faculties, yes, they are. But not every child left sitting in front of a TV is going to be safe, especially when their parents are drunk or drugged & are oblivious to what's happening. I know someone IRL who woke up to find her 3yo, who had been left watching TV while mom "napped" her hangover away, had climbed up on top of a dresser. The 3yo had been up there so long she peed her pants. :( Imagine if the child had fallen off that dresser, or if the house had caught on fire. That child was not safe, not because she was left watching TV, but because she has a bad mom.

Wait, honestly? A parent taking a nap because they have a hangover is a bad parent? This child could have done this in the middle of the night or any other time a parent might be sleeping.

That could happen to any one of us, any night, if we sleep at night. Should parents never sleep for fear of being called a bad parent?

I took a nap almost every day in my third pregnancy (honestly? I'm laying in bed right now while my kids sleep). What is the huge difference in my tired pregnant nap and someone else's oops I drank too much red wine and I have a headache nap?

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

"Potter75" wrote:

Wait, honestly? A parent taking a nap because they have a hangover is a bad parent? This child could have done this in the middle of the night or any other time a parent might be sleeping.

That could happen to any one of us, any night, if we sleep at night. Should parents never sleep for fear of being called a bad parent?

I took a nap almost every day in my third pregnancy (honestly? I'm laying in bed right now while my kids sleep). What is the huge difference in my tired pregnant nap and someone else's oops I drank too much red wine and I have a headache nap?

When your kids are around, you're still "on call" whether you're awake or asleep, and you need to be able to wake up & deal quickly & appropriately with an emergency. I think most people who are sleeping normally will be waked up by their child either by the noises of the child trying to climb the dresser or the crying child from the top of the dresser. But people who have had too much to drink often can not be waked up without a struggle, so I doubt that the sounds of a child getting into trouble or being in physical danger would wake them up. If you're the only person at home to care for your child, you either don't drink so much, or you get a sitter to keep them safe until you're sober. You don't just plop them in front of a TV & hope for the best. That's dangerous, and it's bad parenting.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Spacers" wrote:

When your kids are around, you're still "on call" whether you're awake or asleep, and you need to be able to wake up & deal quickly & appropriately with an emergency. I think most people who are sleeping normally will be waked up by their child either by the noises of the child trying to climb the dresser or the crying child from the top of the dresser. But people who have had too much to drink often can not be waked up without a struggle, so I doubt that the sounds of a child getting into trouble or being in physical danger would wake them up. If you're the only person at home to care for your child, you either don't drink so much, or you get a sitter to keep them safe until you're sober. You don't just plop them in front of a TV & hope for the best. That's dangerous, and it's bad parenting.

But you didn't say she was drunk, you said she was hungover, right?

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

I don't think drinking when you know you will be watching a toddler the next day is a good parenting decision. Doesn't mean that person is a bad parent.

However, there are many tiems I have had a migrane and had to plop my kid down in front of the tv and hope for the best for an hour or so.

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

My daughter wakes up much earlier than we do and sometimes I will go plop down on the couch and sleep while she watches tv. Sometimes we are snuggling but sometimes we aren't, and I would have no idea if she got up and started doing something else.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

WHen my fat baby (who was like 17 lbs at 8 weeks because of nursing every hour all night long for 8 straight weeks) was 2-3 months I used to nap like the freaking dead. I had a 2 and 3 year old running me ragged all day and a newborn eating all night. That same 2 and 3 year old could have been up doing who knows what if they didn't nap that day or woke up early or something, we don't have monitors in any of the kids rooms.

I think that it is weird to sum up someone as a "bad parent" because they might take a nap after a night of drinking a bit too much. It sounds like a way more rigid stance on drinking than anyone I know has (frequent social drinking is very much the norm amongst our group of friends). Are they a bad parent if they nap because they have cancer? Or because they just had surgery? Or is the problem just because they *gasp* chose to drink and may have a headache from it the next day? Shoot, I've been slightly hungover and run races ~ I think that if I can up and run 10 miles with a bit of a hangover I can probably safely parent my children in the same state.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

"Potter75" wrote:

But you didn't say she was drunk, you said she was hungover, right?

The only difference between being drunk & hungover is the passage of time. You can't be hungover without having been drunk first. And IMHO someone who has a day-long hangover was at some time too drunk to be responsible for children.

"culturedmom" wrote:

I don't think drinking when you know you will be watching a toddler the next day is a good parenting decision. Doesn't mean that person is a bad parent.

I disagree. I have no problem with drinking, and I have no problem with drinking to excess on occasion as long as you don't drive. I have a HUGE problem with drinking to excess AND not making sure your kids are safe while you're incapacitated by it. I don't think little kids can be safe when they are completely unsupervised for a couple of hours while a bad parent sleeps off a hangover. Someone who chooses to disregard their child's safety *is* a bad parent IMHO.

And just to be clear, I'm no poster child for abstinence! I love me a nice glass or two of white wine, and I can't wait until Weston stops nursing so I can have champagne again. It still to this day makes him gassy even when I drink it after he's asleep, I guess the carbonation stays in my system or something.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"culturedmom" wrote:

I don't think drinking when you know you will be watching a toddler the next day is a good parenting decision. Doesn't mean that person is a bad parent.

However, there are many tiems I have had a migrane and had to plop my kid down in front of the tv and hope for the best for an hour or so.

Really? I make bad parenting decisions every weekend then. But yeah, that's what the TV is for.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"Spacers" wrote:

When your kids are around, you're still "on call" whether you're awake or asleep, and you need to be able to wake up & deal quickly & appropriately with an emergency. I think most people who are sleeping normally will be waked up by their child either by the noises of the child trying to climb the dresser or the crying child from the top of the dresser. But people who have had too much to drink often can not be waked up without a struggle, so I doubt that the sounds of a child getting into trouble or being in physical danger would wake them up. If you're the only person at home to care for your child, you either don't drink so much, or you get a sitter to keep them safe until you're sober. You don't just plop them in front of a TV & hope for the best. That's dangerous, and it's bad parenting.

A hangover doesn't make you unarousable! Have you ever drank? Weird.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"Spacers" wrote:

The only difference between being drunk & hungover is the passage of time. You can't be hungover without having been drunk first. And IMHO someone who has a day-long hangover was at some time too drunk to be responsible for children.

I disagree. I have no problem with drinking, and I have no problem with drinking to excess on occasion as long as you don't drive. I have a HUGE problem with drinking to excess AND not making sure your kids are safe while you're incapacitated by it. I don't think little kids can be safe when they are completely unsupervised for a couple of hours while a bad parent sleeps off a hangover. Someone who chooses to disregard their child's safety *is* a bad parent IMHO.

And just to be clear, I'm no poster child for abstinence! I love me a nice glass or two of white wine, and I can't wait until Weston stops nursing so I can have champagne again. It still to this day makes him gassy even when I drink it after he's asleep, I guess the carbonation stays in my system or something.

I am a bad parent.

Once, Melis and I stayed up until three in the morning drinking together and tried to take care of our (combined) 5 children. That was funny. We were bad parents together.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Robin, you are the best bad parent I know. Smile

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"Potter75" wrote:

Robin, you are the best bad parent I know. Smile

God, typing that out made me want to do it again. I miss you.

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"LiveFreeOrDie" wrote:

Really? I make bad parenting decisions every weekend then. But yeah, that's what the TV is for.

Ugh. Obvioulsy I didn't mean casual drinking, Robin. I think if you drank enough where you are so hungover you are unwakeable as the pp was talking about, then yes according to me that is a bad parenting decision.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

"Potter75" wrote:

WHen my fat baby (who was like 17 lbs at 8 weeks because of nursing every hour all night long for 8 straight weeks) was 2-3 months I used to nap like the freaking dead. I had a 2 and 3 year old running me ragged all day and a newborn eating all night. That same 2 and 3 year old could have been up doing who knows what if they didn't nap that day or woke up early or something, we don't have monitors in any of the kids rooms.

I think that it is weird to sum up someone as a "bad parent" because they might take a nap after a night of drinking a bit too much. It sounds like a way more rigid stance on drinking than anyone I know has (frequent social drinking is very much the norm amongst our group of friends). Are they a bad parent if they nap because they have cancer? Or because they just had surgery? Or is the problem just because they *gasp* chose to drink and may have a headache from it the next day? Shoot, I've been slightly hungover and run races ~ I think that if I can up and run 10 miles with a bit of a hangover I can probably safely parent my children in the same state.

The issue isn't whether the parent is napping. The issue is whether they have the ability to supervise their children properly. Most people who aren't incapacitated in some way are capable of waking up to "trouble" noises, or at least to their child crying. If you were truly "napping like the dead," then I would probably say you should have had someone to help, either so you weren't so exhausted or to babysit while you napped. A person who just had surgery should certainly not be supervising small children; they can't move around very well & are strung out on painkillers! DH didn't leave me alone with Tiven after my c-section with Weston for probably close to two weeks. And if you can get out of bed & run 10 miles, then I'd say your kids are probably quite safe because you probably weren't as hungover as you claim. A headache isn't a hangover; not being able to move off the sofa even if you wanted to is what I call a hangover.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4103

"LiveFreeOrDie" wrote:

A hangover doesn't make you unarousable! Have you ever drank? Weird.

Yes, I drink often. And sometimes I drink a lot. I do NOT drink a lot when I know I'm going to be the only one taking care of my kids because I consider that to be irresponsible. And I'm not talking about the "Oh, I have a headache" kind of thing. I'm talking about hours of being pretty much incapacitated, that's what I call a hangover, but maybe that's another debate. A headache is just a reminder of a fun evening. Blum 3

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Spacers" wrote:

The issue isn't whether the parent is napping. The issue is whether they have the ability to supervise their children properly. Most people who aren't incapacitated in some way are capable of waking up to "trouble" noises, or at least to their child crying. If you were truly "napping like the dead," then I would probably say you should have had someone to help, either so you weren't so exhausted or to babysit while you napped. A person who just had surgery should certainly not be supervising small children; they can't move around very well & are strung out on painkillers! DH didn't leave me alone with Tiven after my c-section with Weston for probably close to two weeks. And if you can get out of bed & run 10 miles, then I'd say your kids are probably quite safe because you probably weren't as hungover as you claim. A headache isn't a hangover; not being able to move off the sofa even if you wanted to is what I call a hangover.

I'd call a drinking induced headache a hangover. It is a direct result of imbibing alcohol. It is a physical symptom resulting from drinking. I'd call being incapacitated being incapacitated. "as hungover as you say" is a really subjective concept, no?

And honestly? I wasn't literally napping like I was dead, I was napping like I was exhausted. I think that lots of new Mom's with older children do that. I mean, I think that that level of exhaustion is something that lots of parents who stay home with their children all day experience. I would have LOVED to hire someone else to nurse him all night so that I could be a "good parent", but that would have been really weird. I think the notion that we should all hire babysitters when we are ragged and exhausted and have partners who travel is awesome........except for the reality of affording them and having them available every time I was up all night with a nursling or a sick child or whatever. My sister recently had a baby and I was up all night with her. Didn't sleep, not even for 5 minutes. Came home post birth at 7:30 AM to kids raring to go. Parenting my children that day was way worse and way harder than doing so after a night of enjoying some drinks. I don't think that I was a bad parent that day, or days after I may have thoroughly enjoyed myself with friends and drinks. Life happens.

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

Well come on guys. There's exhausted, which is one thing, and unwake-able, which is actually not okay when you're in charge of small kids. I do get the difference.

p.s. Can I come over for drinks with you guys?

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Laurie you are a way easier drive for me than Boston is Smile St. Patties day, NY style, 2012? Robin? SoxyChris? You know you are in. All are welcome.

PS, I'm also a bad Mom because last St Pat's day DH and I were partying in Boston with Chris and Robin while a STRANGER BABYSITTER (Stranger to me, I should know, she had been babysitting for Robin for years) watched my baby (who would not take a bottle, though I left like 27 sippies and bottles of milk) in a hotel room. That poor girl will probably never have children after her experience with my bottle refusing offspring Wink

I just don't equate hungover with "unwake-able", hence my objection to the notion that a hungover person with children is immediately thrust into "bad parentdom" in Spacers world.

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

Ew. St Patrick's Day NY-style means green puke all over the sidewalk at 9:00 a.m.

Sorry, just had to put that out there.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

"Potter75" wrote:

Laurie you are a way easier drive for me than Boston is Smile St. Patties day, NY style, 2012? Robin? SoxyChris? You know you are in. All are welcome.

PS, I'm also a bad Mom because last St Pat's day DH and I were partying in Boston with Chris and Robin while a STRANGER BABYSITTER watched my baby (who would not take a bottle, though I left like 27 sippies and bottles of milk) in a hotel room. That poor girl will probably never have children after her experience with my bottle refusing offspring Wink

I just don't equate hungover with "unwake-able", hence my objection to the notion that a hungover person with children is immediately thrust into "bad parentdom" in Spacers world.

We were TOTALLY hungover after that, too, and they didn't serve breakfast at the damn bar we went to the next morning.

Boston again. Please? Pretty please? You and Laurie can carpool. That stranger babysitter went to college and I miss her.

LiveFreeOrDie's picture
Joined: 09/15/05
Posts: 115

ps. I'm so bored with the bad parenting discussion. I think parents who call other parents bad parents are bad parents.

I just fell asleep from boredom, and I'm unwakeable. Call DSS 'cause I'm parenting right now.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

I hope you have a babysitter

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"LiveFreeOrDie" wrote:

ps. I'm so bored with the bad parenting discussion. I think parents who call other parents bad parents are bad parents.

I just fell asleep from boredom, and I'm unwakeable. Call DSS 'cause I'm parenting right now.

It's just the nature of the debate. It's not like we go around calling people bad parents or even caring how people parent their kids IRL.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"culturedmom" wrote:

It's just the nature of the debate. It's not like we go around calling people bad parents or even caring how people parent their kids IRL.

I know what you are saying, but will argue that generalizing one action as denoting "a bad parent" is silly and shortsighted. In a debate, or IRL. I mean, the "bad parent" label is applied in this thread based upon an IRL example from Spacers. She is calling her IRL friend (or ex-friend) a bad parent based upon the idea that they took a nap while hungover and their 3 YO exhibited precocious 3 YO behavior.

Now, this person may be a "bad parent" for multiple reasons IRL. I just take exception, based upon the debate argument made regarding an IRL situation, that a single example based upon the general term of "hungover" (vs, perhaps, unwake-able, which obvs is dangerous) makes one a "bad parent".