Big Gulp Ban

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Big Gulp Ban

New York now wants to ban any soda over 16 oz. This would mean you wouldn't be able to buy even a 20 oz. bottled drink to go with your meal. Good idea or nanny state?

MYFOXNY.COM -
Get ready to sell smaller containers of soda and other sweetened drinks. The obesity task force with the New York City Department of Health is ready to recommend that containers for sweetened beverages be limited to 16 ounces.

The rule would affect drinks sold at delis, fast-food franchises, sports arenas, and sidewalk carts. Anyone who violates the regulation would be fined $200 for every sale.

This is the latest initiative of Mayor Mike Bloomberg's war on obesity.

The Health Department is already running commercials encouraging the public to stop drinking soda because of its sugar content.

The city's Board of Health would need to approve the rule, but that is considered likely because the mayor appoints the board members.

However, some people Fox 5 News spoke to say if they can't buy one 20-ounce drink they will just buy two 16-ounce bottles.

The New York City Beverage Association is blasting the mayor for attempting to limit the size of sweetened drinks. The organization said soda is not driving the obesity rates and that "as obesity continues to rise, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows that calories from sugar-sweetened beverages are a small and declining part of the American diet."

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/18661832/nyc-to-ban-sale-of-large-sizes-of-sweetened-drinks

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*Sigh*

It does seem very nanny state like...and I really don't like that. At the same time I am frustrated with our poor eating choices and companies poor marketing choices. I'm beginning to lose hope that people, both consumers and those in businesses are capable of doing the right thing.

I don't know.

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Brilliant, I tell you, brilliant! Think about it: last time I was at Staples Center, the drinks were pretty small for the price. How awesome would it be for them to be able to say, "Oh, we can only sell 16 oz. sodas - see you soon for the second round of $7 sodas!"

Does it mention anything about refills? If not, it really isn't going to have that much of an effect on sit-down restaurants.

When I buy my drinks at the store, I know how much is in them ounces and calories. The same isn't true at sit-down restaurants. They can offer a guideline, but the way they refill them, there is no way of knowing how much they are actually serving.

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Agreed, seems kind of nanny state. A bit over the top, especially when people can just buy two or three of the smaller sizes.

But I'm SHOCKED at how much soda people consume. And it really is so so so bad for you.

Though, admittedly, my once or twice/week Coke does taste mighty yummy. All in moderation.

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Very nanny state. We should be able to make decisions ourselves. If someone wants to drink a large soda, that is their choice. I don't often drink soda but every once in awhile one sounds good!

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I'm fine with it. Soda is gross. If people want to go broke paying for two or three, fine. That is still their choice.

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I don't agree. Soda isn't only culprit in our eating habits. If I want to have 4 sodas or 1 large one it is up to me as I am an adult and should be able to purchase anything I want that is already legal.

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Dont we have enough problems in the world without worrying about what people want to drink? I dont drink Soda very often, but every now and then it is fun to have, just like any other junk food in the world

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It's kinda nanny state like. It's kind of a petty issue compared with the issues that exist. Seems like they could have spent more time and money on more important issues, though I do think obesity and health are a priority. It's just within the health issues are much larger issues than a cup size for sodas.

However, I don't think we need to exert that much control over people. I mean, monitoring the size of cup? I think they definitely have some fizz in their heads.

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Hmmm......wonder if they plan on banning Starbucks Venti sized drinks too. Surely that crap can't be good for you.

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"mom3girls" wrote:

Dont we have enough problems in the world without worrying about what people want to drink? I dont drink Soda very often, but every now and then it is fun to have, just like any other junk food in the world

You do realize that you can still have it, right? And, yes, we do have plenty of problems in the world. Obesity and especially diabetes are out of control. Childhood diabetes if off the charts in its meteoric rise. And sadly, the kids who are most affected and harmed by soda are the poor kids. I could look around for a ton of studies to prove this, but I think we have already done that before on here. If you don't want them to start here, where do you want them to start? Because the whole "leave it up to the individual!" thing isn't working out so well as we see our nation crippled with obesity and diabetes related health care costs and a weakened and disabled population, with a weakened and disabled population rising up beneath us.

Love this perspective on obesity and poverty and the role that soda plays in it. http://www.laobserved.com/intell/2012/05/close_to_supermarkets_or_not_f.php

The tyranny of liquid calories
The new studies showed that obesity rates and the proximity of stores were unrelated, but what about the kind of food purchased and taken home ? A recent study in Pediatric Dentistry showed that "Low SES children consistently had significantly greater consumption of soda pop than high socioeconomic families." Why do poor parents buy more soda pop? Because it is cheap, omnipresent, and tasty.
It may also be the single most destructive element in the human diet. Barry Popkin, the current dean of obesity studies, has even argued that because humans evolved without liquid calories (except for breast milk) they are uniquely unsuited to metabolize them. "High-sugar drinks didn't even exist until 150 years ago, and they weren't consumed in significant amounts until the past 50 years," he has noted. "This is just a blip on our evolutionary timeline." Liquid calories don't make us feel full. We eat too much. We get fat.

No human needs to be drinking soda, but no human needs to be drinking a 64 oz big gulp, in particular. http://www.healthytimesblog.com/2011/04/how-many-sugar-cubes-in-your-drinks/ Look at that. That is sick. To put that into your body is sick. I'm all for the ban.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

Hmmm......wonder if they plan on banning Starbucks Venti sized drinks too. Surely that crap can't be good for you.

http://grist.org/food/why-bloombergs-big-gulp-ban-would-be-good-for-new-york-city/

Looks like the Frappuchino and the like make it even though they have added sugars due to the dairy in them.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

Hmmm......wonder if they plan on banning Starbucks Venti sized drinks too. Surely that crap can't be good for you.

Ha, i almost wrote the same thing here yesterday...had the same thought.

For me personally, i go to starbucks and i go to fast food places once in a while, but i never order a venti and i get annoyed at how big the sodas are at the fast food joints. I never even come close to finishing it. While i actually like an ice cold coke or root beer once in a while, the thought of drinking 20oz in one sitting makes me queazy.

Actually, i could probably finish a drink that big if it were iced coffee. But they always pack it full of ice so i highly doubt there is actually 20oz in there.

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We don't have that here, but if we did I couldn't care less. I can barely manage to drink the smallest bottle of Coke sold (literally, I'll take 3 sips and that's all I want and that's like once a month) and I'm always astounded how some people can slug back nearly 2 litres of soda in those massive cups. So, a regular sized can of Coke has like 8 tsp of sugar or something, and those huge Big Gulp cups probably hold what? 6 - 8 cans, I'm guessing, with ice? 64 tsp of sugar.....OMG. That's like more than half an average person's caloric intake for an entire day.

Tangent, but what personally chaps my a$$ is seeing little kids in the Sev with mom and they're getting these huge slurpies. I'll bet they're even worse than Coke. This morning the woman driving in front of me handed her toddler in the carseat a bottle of Gatorade. Makes me feel ill what these kids have coming their way in just a few years. The 6 y.o. girl who lives a couple houses behind us just suddenly ballooned up. She was a solid girl, but now she's very overweight, and as I was looking at her I realized she was drinking a huge Starbucks strawberries and cream shake thingy.

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So why aren't the environmentalists screaming about this issue. Just think how much more trash this will generate with all the extra bottles and cups people will buy.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

So why aren't the environmentalists screaming about this issue. Just think how much more trash this will generate with all the extra bottles and cups people will buy.

Maybe they are hoping people will learn some restraint and not actually order 4 drinks with their meal....

I drink a lot and could easily drink a gigantic beverage serving, but there is no excuse or reason for anyone to be drinking a litre (or more) of pop/juice/slurpee in a single sitting. Water. Drink water if you are thirsty.

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"kris_w" wrote:

Maybe they are hoping people will learn some restraint and not actually order 4 drinks with their meal....

I drink a lot and could easily drink a gigantic beverage serving, but there is no excuse or reason for anyone to be drinking a litre (or more) of pop/juice/slurpee in a single sitting. Water. Drink water if you are thirsty.

Don't know if it's a Can. commercial or also in the US, but have you seen that Nestle water commercial where the little kid wants to be just like dad so he sits down in front of the tube with dad and they both crack open a can of orange pop and the mom looks at them with this lightbulb moment: "Ah hah! I can give them a bottle of water instead!!!" and then you see the two of them next time sipping on these itty bitty bottles of water? Yeah, water's way better than soda, but the gist of the ad really bugs me (or at least MY take on the ad) - that's it's normal for young kids to drink soda and switching to water is this monumental epiphany.

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"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Don't know if it's a Can. commercial or also in the US, but have you seen that Nestle water commercial where the little kid wants to be just like dad so he sits down in front of the tube with dad and they both crack open a can of orange pop and the mom looks at them with this lightbulb moment: "Ah hah! I can give them a bottle of water instead!!!" and then you see the two of them next time sipping on these itty bitty bottles of water? Yeah, water's way better than soda, but the gist of the ad really bugs me (or at least MY take on the ad) - that's it's normal for young kids to drink soda and switching to water is this monumental epiphany.

I don't think I've seen the ad, but I agree with you. When did it become the norm for kids (well, people in general) to drink copious amounts of sugar?

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

So why aren't the environmentalists screaming about this issue. Just think how much more trash this will generate with all the extra bottles and cups people will buy.

Meh, can you prove that they will? Also, they aren't really generating more trash, but more recyclables, just to be precise.

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"Potter75" wrote:

http://grist.org/food/why-bloombergs-big-gulp-ban-would-be-good-for-new-york-city/

Looks like the Frappuchino and the like make it even though they have added sugars due to the dairy in them.

Well personally I think the ban is ludicrous. I think exempting Starbucks because they possibly contain dairy is even more ludicrous.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

Well personally I think the ban is ludicrous. I think exempting Starbucks because they possibly contain dairy is even more ludicrous.

I don't know. A venti is 20 oz hot and 24 oz cold. The drinks which are exempted do contain milk. Milk does contain some beneficial nutrients, which I can't say for anything about soda. To compare it to a Big gulp is just hard for me to do. To compare the ingredient list of the two beverages would be shockingly different. I would also argue that it probably isn't a venti capuccino that is making our poorest kids our fattest, sickest, most overweight and diabetic. Do you think that Starbucks is to blame for that problem? I mean, if there were compelling evidence to suggest that they were, maybe I could get on board with limiting their sizes, but I don't think of coffee drinks as being marketed to children, I guess. Soda and children is really a sore spot with me. If adults are stupid enough to drink soda, thats on them.......when they are stupid enough to feed it to their poor kids, it really bothers me. I don't really see the same demographic issue with starbucks, you know? I admit to not liking starbucks however, so maybe I don't know it and a ton of kids drink venti starbucks on a regular basis.

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I have read a lot of different commits about this on FB today. More than one person mentioned the irony in wanting to have a choice in what goes on in their own body but not having a choice about how much soda you should be able to put in that same body.

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I hardly think of a Frap as a good source of nutrients. Do you? The whole 80 or so grams of sugar that goes with the milk kinda negates the "benefits" if you ask me. But if you don't think the Big Gulp and a ginormous Frap are comparable.....then so be it.

And just so you know, I don't think Big Gulps are to blame for our childhood obesity problems. I'd have to lay that blame on parents. But then again, I must be "stupid" because I allow my kids to drink soda from time to time. What the heck do I know......

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

I have read a lot of different commits about this on FB today. More than one person mentioned the irony in wanting to have a choice in what goes on in their own body but not having a choice about how much soda you should be able to put in that same body.

You could buy as many soda bottles as you want and drink yourself into a diabetic coma if you want. are these posters illiterate and unable to understand the ban? No one is policing what you put into your body. You are not able to leave a bar in PA with more than 2 6 packs. Is that NANNY STATE? Or does that just mean that you buy two. go back in, buy two more, so on and so forth? I mean, if people want to drink themselves into a sugar coma on soda they have every right to do so. They will just be poorer, like those in NYC who are paying 12-14 bucks a pack. Makes you think twice before you shell out for that second bottle, or buy that pack of smokes. And that is great, because is is simply disgusting and unhealthy to do either.

So yea, nothing in my heart breaks for the little boy who can ONLY have 16 oz (1 lb) of soda with his lunch today. Boo. Hoo. Perhaps it will help him learn how to eat and drink like a normal person, since clearly his parents couldn't teach him that themselves. They are probably sucking down big gulps themselves and the kid never had a chance to see what a "normal" portion of an unhealthy beverage might look like. Perhaps this could help him learn, and change.

If you are trying to make some pro choice comparison that is a total fail.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

I hardly think of a Frap as a good source of nutrients. Do you? The whole 80 or so grams of sugar that goes with the milk kinda negates the "benefits" if you ask me.

And just so you know, I don't think Big Gulps are to blame for our childhood obesity problems. I'd have to lay that blame on parents. But then again, I must be "stupid" because I allow my kids to drink soda from time to time. What the heck do I know......

I'm not calling you stupid, but yes, I do think that feeding a product like soda to little children is stupid. There is no benefit and only harm. As your girls are athletes it is especially unusual to me, but hey, thats just me. Healthy bodies and good eating habits are a priority with us, but I recognize that they are not to all parents.

I don't even know what a frappucino is, like I said I don't go there. I don't even drink coffee (or eat sugar but for rare occasions) anymore. I wasn't saying it was a good choice, I was simply providing a link to explain why they weren't banned in answer to your question, please don't act as though I am defending it as a wise choice. I would never put that into my body. I treasure my health too much to spike it with sugar like that, gross! You are putting words in my mouth, I don't think that a frap OR a big gulp are good choices. In explaining something to you I am not defending it, just explaining the law since you didn't seem to know it. I accidentally deleted your sentence accusing me of that when I was trying to bold it.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I'm not calling you stupid, but yes, I do think that feeding a product like soda to little children is stupid. There is no benefit and only harm. As your girls are athletes it is especially unusual to me, but hey, thats just me. Healthy bodies and good eating habits are a priority with us, but I recognize that they are not to all parents.

I don't even know what a frappucino is, like I said I don't go there. I don't even drink coffee (or eat sugar but for rare occasions) anymore. I wasn't saying it was a good choice, I was simply providing a link to explain why they weren't banned in answer to your question, please don't act as though I am defending it as a wise choice. I would never put that into my body. I treasure my health too much to spike it with sugar like that, gross! You are putting words in my mouth, I don't think that a frap OR a big gulp are good choices. In explaining something to you I am not defending it, just explaining the law since you didn't seem to know it. I accidentally deleted your sentence accusing me of that when I was trying to bold it.

This debate is getting way too personal over Big Gulps, lol. First you question the literacy of others and then....well never mind. We have a dance event that we need to get ready for and that definitely beats arguing over Big Gulps and Fraps (and do you seriously not know what a Frap is? And you call me stupid? lol I mean, I don't hang out at strip joints but I know what lap dances are....)

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I'm stupid because I don't know what a store that I don't go into names a made up drink they created that I have never gotten? Thats a weird argument Smile You are just mad cause I think its trashy to feed little kids soda. Sorry. I just do. Good luck at the competition!

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

So why aren't the environmentalists screaming about this issue. Just think how much more trash this will generate with all the extra bottles and cups people will buy.

Why? I can still go to the grocery store and buy a huge bottle of liquid sugar.

It's pretty much places where you would be getting a drink to go or a refillable cup. Except for sports venues, there wouldn't be that much of an increase. It's not going to generate that much more trash.

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Yes I still think it is stupid. I also think it is stupid to only be able to buy 2 6 packs at a time (although I know in PA you have those "beer store" things where you can buy more. ) I found it really weird and inconvenient to go from store to store to just buy a 6 pack and a bottle of wine. Made no sense to me.

I'm not anti soda. I like soda for myself (my kids don't have any) but I still don't blame 1 food/drink item for people being obese. It just doesn't make sense. I live in one of least obese states in the country and most people I know drink soda frequently.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I'm stupid because I don't know what a store that I don't go into names a made up drink they created that I have never gotten? Thats a weird argument Smile You are just mad cause I think its trashy to feed little kids soda. Sorry. I just do. Good luck at the competition!

So I'm "trashy", "stupid", and "illiterate"? Wow, sound bitter much? Perhaps you need a Venti Frap, a lap dance, and a chill pill......

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Hey, hun, call yourself whatever fits. I've not called YOU any of that. PErsonally I feel that a "Venti frap a lap dance" would make me feel less than happy with myself and kind of like white trash......and I don't really know what a "chill pill" is, but if you have any good ideas pass them along!

I was using the term illiterate in reference to the people that Bonita was talking about. But if you want to apply that to you, well, that has nothing to do with me. Context is important. And again, I have specifically pointed out that I am intelligent enough to decipher between judging a decision and judging a person. AKA speeding is dangerous. I, personally, speed on occasion. That does not necessarily mean that I am a dangerous person, simply that I occasionally make bad decisions which I deem beneficional and prudent given my track record.
Other people are VERY free to call that stupid. In fact, if you want a list of things that you can call me stupid for I will be happy to provide it to you. In the interim, I will feel free to call feeding sugar and chemicals to children stupid.

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I dont believe people have to illiterate to disagree with the ban. I disagree with it solely based on the fact that I feel it is a bad move to blame one or two foods for the obesity problem in this country. If they think that cutting out soda will be all they have to do to be healthy they are wrong.

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"mom3girls" wrote:

I dont believe people have to illiterate to disagree with the ban. I disagree with it solely based on the fact that I feel it is a bad move to blame one or two foods for the obesity problem in this country. If they think that cutting out soda will be all they have to do to be healthy they are wrong.

To the bolded, huh? In an ironic way you prove my point Smile

I don't think and have not read anywhere that they think that this will solve the obesity problem in this country. Have you? where is your basis for your argument? can you cite it?

Does every step have to equal a solution, in your world? That is very black and white thinking. If so, and you hate this solution, what is your solution?This is just a step. Since people can't stop themselves, and more importantly can't stop their kids.......this is a step. Of course no one who is creating this policy is stupid enough to think this this will solve the fat kid problem. Duh. I mean, did you honestly read the article and get that impression? That this was their silver bullet?

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"Potter75" wrote:

To the bolded, huh? In an ironic way you prove my point Smile

I don't think and have not read anywhere that they think that this will solve the obesity problem in this country. Have you? where is your basis for your argument? can you cite it?

Does every step have to equal a solution, in your politics? and, if so, and you hate this solution, what is your solution?

Wow way snarky. So glad you felt it okay to point out typos.

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"mom3girls" wrote:

Wow way snarky. So glad you felt it okay to point out typos.

Sorry, did you have a debate point?

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Here is a reminder, yet again, on our Community Guidelines:

Let's be adults that can communicate without the personal attacks, bashing, mocking, and/or demeaning of one another, or harassment. You aren't required to agree 100% of the time, but if you disagree please do so in a civil manner.

If it turns out that you are indeed hurting another person on a board, comment area or in chat, then you must be prepared to also accept the consequences of your actions.

While you are welcome to express your belief/point of view, understand that you're expected to be able to do so without mocking, bashing, or demeaning someone's views or beliefs. It's an issue of respect for all your fellow Pregnancy.org members and non-members alike that are subjected to reading.

For those wishing to debate, here is the topic up for discussion again:[INDENT]
New York now wants to ban any soda over 16 oz. This would mean you wouldn't be able to buy even a 20 oz. bottled drink to go with your meal. Good idea or nanny state?

[/INDENT]

If you have questions or concerns, feel free to drop me a note via pm or email.

Thanks,

~Missy (missyj@pregnancy.org)

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I felt like another point was needed in that, until people themselves become educated about their eating choices, start taking responsibility for their choices, and they themselves make better choices banning anything is really not going to make a difference imo. People will adapt and do something differently, eg buy a two liter and drink straight from it..I've seen this. To me banning doesn't work out very well. It's the mentality that has to change. When that changes then the big gulp business will fade away by itself as will other things. Banning really just ticks people off.

ETA: when you have a day designating June 1 as, "National Doughnut Day" then I think that speaks volumes about the seriousness of fighting obesity and improving health.

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It's a good idea, I agree with the ban. Drinks are so expensive anyways... So not only are people slowly killing themselves with copious amounts of soda, they are spending a lot of money buying the soda and won't be able to afford their health insurance/medications anymore. I do drink soda and will allow Jace to have 1 kids cup of sprite at a restaurant... Consider it my guilty pleasure Smile Some people drink way too much though, it's pretty sickening.

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"myyams" wrote:

ETA: when you have a day designating June 1 as, "National Doughnut Day" then I think that speaks volumes about the seriousness of fighting obesity and improving health.

Yummmmm!

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I'm not sure I understand the objections of those against the ban.

People can still buy pop in restaurants (and 16oz is a fair amount). If they are really desperate, they can buy a second serving.

People can still go to the store and buy unlimited volumes of pop and drink it at their leisure.

I think we can all agree that 20 + oz of pop in one sitting is pretty excessive and not healthy?? Anyone who doesn't know that needs to be educated about diet/health, and a basic place to start is saying, "No, you can't drink all that now" and "No, you shouldn't feed that to your kids". It isn't about whether people are allowed to have a "treat", of course they can. A normal size serving is a treat, 32oz is gluttony.

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I don't know that I agree that banning a size/item should happen, but I do think that it could have a long term affect, especially on teens. In our area, kids pop into the delis every day after school and grab a snack item and a large soft drink. If large were suddenly to have 240 or so calories less, over six months, maybe a kid would lose a few pounds or not gain as much.

On the other hand, when we're traveling in the summer the kids and I get a HUGE 48 oz. unsweetened ice tea with tons of ice from the mini marts with the "all sizes; same price!" deals. That lasts us 80 to 100 miles. I realize that since it's not a sweetened drink, technically this restriction wouldn't apply. From a logistic point of view, it might end. How would the people at the counter "know" that you had unsweetened ice tea or water in your huge glass instead of soda? Probably all containers larger than 16 ounces would be removed.

A change I would LOVE to see is being able to bring your own water bottle into events. You can get water at restaurants, but if you take the family to a movie you have to smuggle it in or buy what's there. Often you can't even find a drinking fountain.

That's such a wishy-washy reply on my part, so I'll try again. I'm against restricting people's right to buy, eat, drink, smoke what they choose. This law wouldn't exactly restrict your buying a product; it simply limits how much can be offered as a single serving. Good idea? Nanny state? I lean toward good idea since it's not actually violating or restricting a substance. Instead, it just mandates a restriction on "packaging."

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"Jules" wrote:

I don't know that I agree that banning a size/item should happen, but I do think that it could have a long term affect, especially on teens. In our area, kids pop into the delis every day after school and grab a snack item and a large soft drink. If large were suddenly to have 240 or so calories less, over six months, maybe a kid would lose a few pounds or not gain as much.

On the other hand, when we're traveling in the summer the kids and I get a HUGE 48 oz. unsweetened ice tea with tons of ice from the mini marts with the "all sizes; same price!" deals. That lasts us 80 to 100 miles. I realize that since it's not a sweetened drink, technically this restriction wouldn't apply. From a logistic point of view, it might end. How would the people at the counter "know" that you had unsweetened ice tea or water in your huge glass instead of soda? Probably all containers larger than 16 ounces would be removed.

A change I would LOVE to see is being able to bring your own water bottle into events. You can get water at restaurants, but if you take the family to a movie you have to smuggle it in or buy what's there. Often you can't even find a drinking fountain.

That's such a wishy-washy reply on my part, so I'll try again. I'm against restricting people's right to buy, eat, drink, smoke what they choose. This law wouldn't exactly restrict your buying a product; it simply limits how much can be offered as a single serving. Good idea? Nanny state? I lean toward good idea since it's not actually violating or restricting a substance. Instead, it just mandates a restriction on "packaging."

That would last me 20 mins before I had to stop to pee.

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"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

It's a good idea, I agree with the ban. Drinks are so expensive anyways... So not only are people slowly killing themselves with copious amounts of soda, they are spending a lot of money buying the soda and won't be able to afford their health insurance/medications anymore. I do drink soda and will allow Jace to have 1 kids cup of sprite at a restaurant... Consider it my guilty pleasure Smile Some people drink way too much though, it's pretty sickening.

You don't really think people are going broke over soda, do you?

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

You don't really think people are going broke over soda, do you?

Sure I do. Diabetes, high cholesterol, rotting teeth, and other ill effects of a bad diet because of excess soda intake is expensive to insure and take meds for.

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I know this debate has been quiet for a while but i just went back and read and someone asked, if you have a objection to it, why?

While overall I"m undecided, the part of me that does want to object is most definitely NOT because i think drinking 20oz or ore of soda is a good thing.

What it is is laws that are put in place to force people into decisions because they can't figure out how to do it themselves bother me to some degree. It reminds me a lot of a mindless society that just does what its told without ever having to understand why. "Can't figure out why 20oz of soda is bad for you? Well don't you worry your little head over the hows and whys, we'll just take that option away from you instead"

Something about the whole tone of these types of laws bother me.

I *get* that we have a problem and this could help improve it...i get that. And i get that people right now aren't figuring it out themselves.

I think the only thing that would convince me that its okay is that its really aimed at businesses, to make better and more society conscious choices, not consumers. And businesses can almost NEVER see beyond what is good for them from a profit and business success standpoint, so they need a little more bullying.

I went to McDonald's the other day for dinner. She kept asking me if I wanted to super size my soda. I told her i wanted the smallest soda that she could give me with my meal. And she said "Okay we can make it a medium" It was huge...had to be more than 16 ozs? (I don't know i didn't actually check) and I drank literally about 1/8th of it.

I just checked online. Their medium is 21 oz. I also see that they have small. Why couldn't she give me a small?? Even then i wouldn't be able to drink it all, a small is 16 oz.

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"KimPossible" wrote:

I went to McDonald's the other day for dinner. She kept asking me if I wanted to super size my soda. I told her i wanted the smallest soda that she could give me with my meal. And she said "Okay we can make it a medium" It was huge...had to be more than 16 ozs? (I don't know i didn't actually check) and I drank literally about 1/8th of it.

I just checked online. Their medium is 21 oz. I also see that they have small. Why couldn't she give me a small?? Even then i wouldn't be able to drink it all, a small is 16 oz.

It was because you ordered a combo meal and that automatically includes a medium drink. Everyone thinks they are saving money by ordering a combo meal, but it isn't always the case. If you had ordered a small drink and the sandwich and fries seperately instead of as a meal you could have gotten a small drink. I am not a fan of the combo meals because if everyone gets fries we always end up with way more than we eat and they are just wasted, so I just order the burgers and a large fry to share. I always order the smallest drink possible because they all give free refills anyway. If I go someplace like McDonalds I am going for a cheap meal, and the best way to do that is order a la carte off the dollar menu which almost all those similar places have. It is usually even cheaper for the kids than ordering a kid's meal.

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I agree with you, Kim. But, I guess I'm a little more leaning to the "just ban it" side of thing. I see it in the same light as restrictions on cigarettes or alcohol - We all know they are bad for you, so I don't object to putting a few barriers in the way of free, unlimited access.

I am also admittedly more free with these sort of government health-based restrictions because of coming from Canada. I figure the gov't picks up the health care bill, so if they want to say "no giant pop allowed - it is making diabetes worse" or whatever, they have that right. I see it as sort of a public health care trade off.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

It was because you ordered a combo meal and that automatically includes a medium drink. Everyone thinks they are saving money by ordering a combo meal, but it isn't always the case. If you had ordered a small drink and the sandwich and fries seperately instead of as a meal you could have gotten a small drink. I am not a fan of the combo meals because if everyone gets fries we always end up with way more than we eat and they are just wasted, so I just order the burgers and a large fry to share. I always order the smallest drink possible because they all give free refills anyway. If I go someplace like McDonalds I am going for a cheap meal, and the best way to do that is order a la carte off the dollar menu which almost all those similar places have. It is usually even cheaper for the kids than ordering a kid's meal.

But that's really annoying...why can't i get a small soda with a meal? Money and all that aside....i mean if want a smaller soda that should be a very simple option, they shouldn't make it more difficult. KWIM?

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"kris_w" wrote:

I agree with you, Kim. But, I guess I'm a little more leaning to the "just ban it" side of thing. I see it in the same light as restrictions on cigarettes or alcohol - We all know they are bad for you, so I don't object to putting a few barriers in the way of free, unlimited access.

I am also admittedly more free with these sort of government health-based restrictions because of coming from Canada. I figure the gov't picks up the health care bill, so if they want to say "no giant pop allowed - it is making diabetes worse" or whatever, they have that right. I see it as sort of a public health care trade off.

Yeah, i mean, i have to say this one doesn't infuriate me or anything. I"m kind of like "meh". So its like I don't really like those types of laws overall, but i'm not going to go out and protest about *this* particular instance of such a law. I guess i do think soda is bad enough that it doesn't move me all that much.

ETA: And you know the cigarette and alcohol thing bothers me even less. I guess i feel i benefit more from that as an individual than the soda thing. The less cigarette smoke i'm directly exposed to? Good for me. The less drunk people on the streets? Good for me.

I know you could make an argument about the health problems associated with obesity and the costs to society but it just seems so much more indirect.

Completely rational about it all? No...i suppose not, but those are just my gut reactions. And when things start getting less 'direct' and more 'indirect' i like govt involved less and less. Its an inverse relationship to me. So i guess thats why i can't jump in with both feet and shout 'hooray!' either. Biggrin

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Thats how it works. They start with the small stuff that nobody makes a stink about, and then gradually regulate more and more of our lives because you think... well they already regulate this so why not that. It is none of the government's business what size drink I buy or what size drink a company can sell.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Thats how it works. They start with the small stuff that nobody makes a stink about, and then gradually regulate more and more of our lives because you think... well they already regulate this so why not that. It is none of the government's business what size drink I buy or what size drink a company can sell.

Yeah but Gloria i think you can make a good argument that soda is on the extreme end of things. Its not some little thing. Its really bad for you and has no redeeming qualities. If they started going after smaller things? Sure. But bigger things? THey should be fair game. And we definitely have set the precedent that the government can be involved with how you buy certain products that we think are big problems.

Or maybe that's the problem...maybe people view soda as 'a little thing' and not a big problem.

ETA: as you can see i waffle a lot on this issue Smile

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