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Thread: Boy Scouts Tp (Possibly) End Homosexual Ban

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Then where would my marriage come from? I'm not religious at all, I would not agree to be married in a place of worship or by someone associated with one. Where else does my marriage exist? Government sanctions marriage to integrate it into our civilized society. These are the rules we all agree to, they come from government. I would say instead that the religious people who want government out of it should skip legal marriage and only do church/religious marriages. If it doesn't matter to you that it's recognized by the government then skip that part. It DOES matter to me that it's a legal marriage, recognized by the government and the society I live in. (I hope my tone is coming across okay...don't mean to sound belligerent about people who have religious marriage.)
    I do not have all the answers to your questions, I do believe though that the answer to the marriage debate is to take Government out of the equation. I am not sure why the same people who marry now, could not still do so. (JP, Judges, who ever does now) I do not think there should be a tax break for being married. That is not only discriminatory to same sex couples, but couples who co-habitat, and people who are not married.

    I think you would find that most people that get married in a church, do so for the same reasons that you do. To make a life long commitment before their friends and family. It happening in a church does not magically change it into something else. I know many people who are not religious at all, or do not practice religion regularly, but still get married in a church.

    I also hope my tone is coming across ok. This topic is always is hard for me because I know so many people on both sides of the issue. This is the only solution that I can come up with that will solve the problem. It almost feels like a situation where two kids are fighting over the same toy, the parent has to come in a say, ok fine no one gets it. It is not an ideal situation, but I think it is the only fair option in this situation.

    ~Bonita~

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    No I don't use a book that has allowed others to discriminate and be evil to others in the name of the God and Jesus I love to run my life. I think it has been mixed up with all other crud over time and is not even near what it should be. I follow in Jesus' footsteps of helping others, trying not to judge, treating others as I want to be treated, loving all of my fellow men and women that HE has created and understanding that God never makes mistakes.
    This is Soooo sad.. You do not get it Jessica.. that you are not following Jesus. In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was GOD and the WORD was with GOD... Jesus is GOD he is the creator, he did in the OT did in the NT and will in Reveleation JUDGE. He is the one that comes and slaughters the evil doers as the WORD proceeds from his mouth like a sword and Blood runs in the streets.. Not sure who this Jesus is that you speak of. Jesus sure did judge right from wrong, and sin from not sin.. And he did NOT heal anyone without telling them Go and sin no more.. or that they needed to follow him in order to be saved or healed.. etc. There was always qualifications.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I do not have all the answers to your questions, I do believe though that the answer to the marriage debate is to take Government out of the equation. I am not sure why the same people who marry now, could not still do so. (JP, Judges, who ever does now) I do not think there should be a tax break for being married. That is not only discriminatory to same sex couples, but couples who co-habitat, and people who are not married.

    I think you would find that most people that get married in a church, do so for the same reasons that you do. To make a life long commitment before their friends and family. It happening in a church does not magically change it into something else. I know many people who are not religious at all, or do not practice religion regularly, but still get married in a church.

    I also hope my tone is coming across ok. This topic is always is hard for me because I know so many people on both sides of the issue. This is the only solution that I can come up with that will solve the problem. It almost feels like a situation where two kids are fighting over the same toy, the parent has to come in a say, ok fine no one gets it. It is not an ideal situation, but I think it is the only fair option in this situation.
    i just think that's not the solution. Both kids can have the same toy. Give it to everyone.

    How could a judge marry people if there was no connection to government. What is the authority granting the marriage?

    I have been to many church weddings. I just wouldn't ever get married in one. I do not like organized religion so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to get married in a church or synagogue.

    Totally get your tone. Don't worry. I like that you will dig into the details. That's why we're debating!
    Laurie, mom to:
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    i just think that's not the solution. Both kids can have the same toy. Give it to everyone.

    How could a judge marry people if there was no connection to government. What is the authority granting the marriage?

    I have been to many church weddings. I just wouldn't ever get married in one. I do not like organized religion so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to get married in a church or synagogue.

    Totally get your tone. Don't worry. I like that you will dig into the details. That's why we're debating!
    You are not giving it to everyone. You would only be giving it to everyone if every adult got the same benefits.

    My understanding is that any time someone gets married (either in a church or a courthouse or the great outdoors), you pay the person marrying you, and you pay for your marriage licence. You could still pay for a service rendered.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    See now I think everyone should be able have a loving service in front of their friends and family if they want to. It is not necessary for the government to become involved. If you took the Government out of it, there would not be any controversy. Everyone would be treated the same. People that did not chose to enter into a union of any kind would not be discriminated against, and people who wanted a same sex marriage would not be discriminated against, and neither would heterosexual couples.

    What I meant, was what is the purpose for the Government to be involved if it is not for taxes and other legal rights. What is accomplished in a service with a legal marriage certificate that is not accomplished in a service without one, other than tax benefits and Next of kin status?
    Because just like Gloria we believe that marriage is good for society.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    You are not giving it to everyone. You would only be giving it to everyone if every adult got the same benefits.

    My understanding is that any time someone gets married (either in a church or a courthouse or the great outdoors), you pay the person marrying you, and you pay for your marriage licence. You could still pay for a service rendered.
    But then by whose authority am I married?

    And why can't you give it to everyone? Gay or straight. It's wanting to stop gay people from having the right to marry by taking my right away too.
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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    But then by whose authority am I married?

    And why can't you give it to everyone? Gay or straight. It's wanting to stop gay people from having the right to marry by taking my right away too.
    You are leaving out the people who never found someone to love, or have a fundamental disbelief in marriage. It is no different to say "All people have the right to get married, so a gay person should just marry a person of the opposite gender even if they do not love them", then it is to say we are going to give a tax break to everyone that gets married because "Everyone can get married to someone even if they do not love them".

    I am close to someone who has a fundamental disbelief in marriage. He has lived with the same person for at least 14 years and has 2 children with her. They are every bit as much a family as my DH and I. Why should he not be able to have the same rights as my DH? What about a widow that has been married for 40 years then her husband died?

    ~Bonita~

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    This is Soooo sad.. You do not get it Jessica.. that you are not following Jesus. In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was GOD and the WORD was with GOD... Jesus is GOD he is the creator, he did in the OT did in the NT and will in Reveleation JUDGE. He is the one that comes and slaughters the evil doers as the WORD proceeds from his mouth like a sword and Blood runs in the streets.. Not sure who this Jesus is that you speak of. Jesus sure did judge right from wrong, and sin from not sin.. And he did NOT heal anyone without telling them Go and sin no more.. or that they needed to follow him in order to be saved or healed.. etc. There was always qualifications.
    It doesn't matter to me if you think that it's sad. That doesn't bother me. I am very comfortable with my relationship with God and Jesus and the path that I'm following to reach them. My spirituality is just that. MINE. Yours is YOURS. The difference is I don't use my feelings and my faith to stop anyone from having the same rights that I do. If I'm wrong ...it's my problem to deal with isn't it? Not yours.

    Although, I don't think anyone of us is wrong. We're just on different paths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    You are leaving out the people who never found someone to love, or have a fundamental disbelief in marriage. It is no different to say "All people have the right to get married, so a gay person should just marry a person of the opposite gender even if they do not love them", then it is to say we are going to give a tax break to everyone that gets married because "Everyone can get married to someone even if they do not love them".

    I am close to someone who has a fundamental disbelief in marriage. He has lived with the same person for at least 14 years and has 2 children with her. They are every bit as much a family as my DH and I. Why should he not be able to have the same rights as my DH? What about a widow that has been married for 40 years then her husband died?
    I don't care about the tax break. I don't seem to get one anyway, but I don't see that as an element of marriage.

    What rights is this unmarried man missing? I have no rights he doesn't have.
    Laurie, mom to:
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  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    I don't care about the tax break. I don't seem to get one anyway, but I don't see that as an element of marriage.

    What rights is this unmarried man missing? I have no rights he doesn't have.
    What are the legal elements of marriage that you see? (Just so we are debating on the same topics) The main points that I have seen through their relationship is not being able to visit in the hospital in case of an emergency, insurance, and a tax break. In NY (where he lives) there is and insurance option that says significant other so for him, that is not an issue. I am saying if you were able state who you wanted to be your next of kin, chose who was on your health insurance, and there was no tax break, it would level the field for everyone. You could have whatever kind of wedding you wanted or didn't want, Gay, Straight, Co-habitat, Widowed, Divorced, or Whatever, and everyone got the same rights. There is this huge uproar over a small part of the population not included in marriage, when there are tons of others that are not included either.

    ~Bonita~

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