Boy Scouts Tp (Possibly) End Homosexual Ban - Page 35
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Thread: Boy Scouts Tp (Possibly) End Homosexual Ban

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It would mean whatever marriage means to you. To some people, marriage is a life long commitment between a man and a woman. To others it means something different.

    I am not sure where else I can go with this as I have stated my POV every way I know how.
    But so any two or more adults can just announce they're married and then they are? At any time? Do they need to get divorced if they break up or can they just marry more people?
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  2. #342
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    Exactly! If there isn't anyone involved then there is nothing different from saying "I'm married" from "hey, we're dating". There's nothing official to say I have rights to see him if he is in the hospital and rights to property etc.

    To me, marriage is a lifelong commitment to your partner. Whether it is man/woman, woman/woman, man/man doesn't matter. It's just different and I like that. I want that. I truly felt different the next day. Like, I needed to merge our lives completely and that I was responsible for helping him as he was me. It was just so different for me...can't really explain it. I find it hard to tell my friend that he can't have that with the person he loves, the person he owns property with, the person who goes to buy shoes with him, the person who he bakes treats for ....they are just like my husband and me...except without the 'girl'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    To me, marriage is a lifelong commitment to your partner.
    To me, marriage is also a lifelong commitment to your partner. It already happens that people get married and divorced about as often as they change their sheets. I think that is sad, but there is nothing I can or would do to change how other people live there lives.

    As I said earlier, when taking away the legal status of marriage, each person would then chose whoever they wanted to be able to see them in the hospital, right to property and such through a living will or something similar. That would make it (IMO) much more of a choice. Take for example, (fictional for the point of the story) if I was not married and wanted my sister to be the one who made all of my final decisions and what not, but the Government saw my Mother as my Next of Kin. I would have to legally state who I wanted my Next of Kin to be. It may or my not be the person I married. It may be my sister, my best friend, my cousin, my spouse, my pastor, or who ever. There are so many more combinations than my husband/wife either gay or straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    RG~you're too much. Jesus is my savior and I follow what I believe are his teachings. Not a book that has been rewritten many times. I can call myself what I want. I think too many people use that book for hatred and for bigotry and I refuse to take someone else's writings and follow it in the name of Jesus and God. I'm okay with the fact that you don't agree but i refuse to call myself anything but a Christian.
    I am a little confused too. So how do you know anything about Jesus or his teachings if you don't believe in the Bible, since EVERYTHING we know about him comes from that book? What exactly do you base your Christianity on? The only reason we know he even existed besides the Bible is the fact that he is mentioned by some other historical writers like Josiah, but they don't go into detail about what he taught.
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    But so any two or more adults can just announce they're married and then they are? At any time? Do they need to get divorced if they break up or can they just marry more people?
    Why should it matter, it should be whatever rules those two or more adults want to use according to you right? If they want a polygamous marriage why should it matter? The only thing that would matter legally is the person designated by the government union. And I'm not sure why it would matter who marries you, right now almost anyone can be certified to marry people, people get their friends or relatives certified to perform their ceremonies and marry them all the time.
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    You guys are being purposely obtuse and rude to Jessica. Many, many different groups base pretty wildly different religions or interpretations of Christianity on the same Bible ~ You are acting like there is only one way to interpret it and you know that that is just ridiculous.

    It isn't "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Rivergallery", so lets stop acting like it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Why should it matter, it should be whatever rules those two or more adults want to use according to you right? If they want a polygamous marriage why should it matter? The only thing that would matter legally is the person designated by the government union. And I'm not sure why it would matter who marries you, right now almost anyone can be certified to marry people, people get their friends or relatives certified to perform their ceremonies and marry them all the time.
    No it shouldn't. I'm the one who wants marriage to be marriage. I want the government involved. I want marriage licenses. I want all of those things. I just want them for gay people too. I think we as a society benefit from the creation of family units. And when we get a friend to marry us, that person is sanctioned by the state, no matter how easy it was to do. The authority has to come from SOMEWHERE. This weird solution means either the religious groups own marriage or it's marriage anarchy. I want neither of those. I want marriage as it is now, but with the inclusion of gay people. Why is that SO threatening that the whole institution has to go out the window to prevent it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    In my opinion, yes, when you stand before your friends and family and commit yourselves together, that is what makes you married. Not the piece of paper. Each time I type this, I think of the Little House on the Prairie times. There was no "Legal" around for miles. Where they not still "married"? IMO, they were just as married as I am today. It was the services and commitment that made them married, not the paper.

    ETA - I do have a deep belief in God, but I do not believe you need to have that do get married.

    Well, yes, and that is a quaint view of life and of marriage. However, they also had their money under their floorboard (if their home had a floor) or under their mattress. They did not have hospitals. We have multiple bank accounts I would need access to, we have all sorts of legal issues like home mortgages, living wills, trusts for our children, etc etc. How would I have changed my last name with the social security and drivers licensing center without a marriage certificate? I don't think that they had drivers licensing centers in little house on the prairie.

    While it may sound fun to go back to handfasting, when I walked into the bank and tried to explain our handfasting and how I needed access to certain things as the wife to my husband, but I had a different last name because I didn't have any legal documents so had not been able to change my last name etc etc etc I don't think that it would be quite as fun. When I tried to get into the hospital in the event of a tragic accident and tried to explain the different names and the lovely ceremony in the meadow or showed them a photo of our names carved in a heart in a tree stump and they denied me entry I would not be idealizing it then.

    Many of us agree that marriage is good for society. The Government has a vested interest in promoting things which are good for society. I am GLAD that the government is involved in marriage. Just like they promote having children (we need workers to have a healthy economy) and provide tax breaks for children. Just like they promote a healthy environment and provide tax breaks for gas efficient cars or installing solar panels or energy efficient appliances or windows, I'm glad that they promote marriage!
    Last edited by Potter75; 03-25-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    To me, marriage is also a lifelong commitment to your partner. It already happens that people get married and divorced about as often as they change their sheets. I think that is sad, but there is nothing I can or would do to change how other people live there lives.

    As I said earlier, when taking away the legal status of marriage, each person would then chose whoever they wanted to be able to see them in the hospital, right to property and such through a living will or something similar. That would make it (IMO) much more of a choice. Take for example, (fictional for the point of the story) if I was not married and wanted my sister to be the one who made all of my final decisions and what not, but the Government saw my Mother as my Next of Kin. I would have to legally state who I wanted my Next of Kin to be. It may or my not be the person I married. It may be my sister, my best friend, my cousin, my spouse, my pastor, or who ever. There are so many more combinations than my husband/wife either gay or straight.
    This doesn't make sense to me either. Do you know how many people don't have documents for such things at all, or access to lawyers to make them? What happens when someone gets sick suddenly? We have "next of kin" for a reason and for those who don't want that they can designate somebody else. But why is the family unit suddenly such a negative thing?

    And you can still give right to property to anyone you like, that's what a will is for.

    I feel like in the effort to stop gay people from having marriage, you (with this idea for a plan) want to take away MY marriage. I love my marriage. Let me keep my legal, official, government-sanctioned marriage. And let me be grateful that I live in the state of New York where my Dad gets his too. They're celebrating 40 years of being together this year, although they haven't been married for as long as they had to wait for it to become legal. We'll be celebrating as a large family all together, including my two youngest siblings who are Dad's & Michael's children together.

    How is that bad for society and why do we have to give up marriage to prevent it?
    Laurie, mom to:
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  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I am a little confused too. So how do you know anything about Jesus or his teachings if you don't believe in the Bible, since EVERYTHING we know about him comes from that book? What exactly do you base your Christianity on? The only reason we know he even existed besides the Bible is the fact that he is mentioned by some other historical writers like Josiah, but they don't go into detail about what he taught.
    I didn't say that I didn't take the Bible as a book of history. I said I didn't use it as my life guide to be followed by every word in the book. Many of which are contradictory.

    I came to know and love Jesus and God through a variety of ways. Growing up as a Catholic, going to CCD and learning those ways supported by the Bible but the CC is not based on being biblical scholars and it was never something we studied extensively. There was a period of my life that I doubted God and Jesus and worked through my feelings to decide that I believe God existed and sent his son to save me but I did a lot of outside reading too. Others thoughts etc. to come to where I am today. I just think that the Bible has been manipulated by many over time that I don't feel that it is the true word of God anymore and took in too much of society's wants.

    I really don't feel like debating my spirituality anymore. I'm absolutely fine with you disagreeing with how I've come to love Jesus just as I disagree with the fact that you use the name of Jesus and God to hurt others.

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