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Thread: Boy Scouts Tp (Possibly) End Homosexual Ban

  1. #491
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Yes I am aware of context.. don't be pulling the Clinton..
    Pulling a Clinton? Please. You are trying to make it sound like you don't' understand what type of discrimination Laurie is talking about. I'm simply pointing out that there is no excuse to not know what kind of discrimination Laurie is talking about.


    Of course we are talking about different treatment under the law... Children can't vote, for one.. We have ALL kinds of laws that only apply to certain groups of people, they are not inherently wrong...
    Because there is substantial evidence that children don't have the ability to understand the ramifications of such a decision. You would be able to concisely and very easily point to some obvious consequences of letting children vote. We don't discriminate unless you have substantial evidence that not doing so would be harmful. As much as you would like to suggest that you have evidence that gay marriage would be harmful, you don't really have it.

    WHY is marriage between ONLY a man and a woman wrong... except for the feelings some groups of people have? What is their basis for it being wrong..
    The issue is not who's 'feelings' are more correct. Its about removing options and privileges from individuals based on insufficient grounds. It doesn't matter ethically what people think is right or wrong in this situation because the effects of other people practicing their own morals in this scenario does not effect you. People thinking marriage between only men and a woman being wrong does not impede YOUR ability to practice your own moral code. If people thought that marriage between men and woman WAS wrong and morally repugnant and tried to force you not to marry a man...that would be wrong. The issue has nothing to do with the specific gender match ups. It has to do with removing the rights of other people to practice their own moral code when it doesn't have any effect on anyone else but them.

    And it is only on how they feel then my feelings are just as valid... AND.. if they can have rallies and parades and protests then I should be able to have rallies, parades and protests to keep laws the way I FEEL they should be also.
    You can go to as many rallies and parades and protests for your cause that you like. No one is disputing your right to do those things. There were tons of them up here in Maine before the votes on gay marriage...none of them were arrested for doing so.
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  2. #492
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Interesting - I feel you are wrong because you are trying to force me to call something right that I view is sin.... Who is the group trying to change things? I am trying to keep things.. so who is the aggressor and who is the defender>?
    What? I'm not forcing you to call anything right LOL. Letting other people go about their business doesn't mean you are giving it your official stamp of approval. There are all sorts of analogous scenarios we could bring up here.

    Lets take homeschooling for example. Do you think just because its legal to homeschool that means that everyone thinks its right? Hardly.

    There are things that are legal that happen around you EVERY DAY, that I'm pretty sure you do not approve of. Allowing people to do those things is NOT the same as you saying its right.

  3. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Interesting - I feel you are wrong because you are trying to force me to call something right that I view is sin.... Who is the group trying to change things? I am trying to keep things.. so who is the aggressor and who is the defender>?
    No one is forcing you to call it right.

    We are suggesting that this country not make laws based on what you view as sin, because we don't make views based on religion. Since they did, originally, make this law based on that, we are saying it's time to change and evolve. You can still think it's wrong.

    I think beauty pageants are morally wrong, but I don't think we should pass laws to ban them simply because I feel that way.
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  4. #494
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Pulling a Clinton? Please. You are trying to make it sound like you don't' understand what type of discrimination Laurie is talking about. I'm simply pointing out that there is no excuse to not know what kind of discrimination Laurie is talking about.




    Because there is substantial evidence that children don't have the ability to understand the ramifications of such a decision. You would be able to concisely and very easily point to some obvious consequences of letting children vote. We don't discriminate unless you have substantial evidence that not doing so would be harmful. As much as you would like to suggest that you have evidence that gay marriage would be harmful, you don't really have it.



    The issue is not who's 'feelings' are more correct. Its about removing options and privileges from individuals based on insufficient grounds. It doesn't matter ethically what people think is right or wrong in this situation because the effects of other people practicing their own morals in this scenario does not effect you. People thinking marriage between only men and a woman being wrong does not impede YOUR ability to practice your own moral code. If people thought that marriage between men and woman WAS wrong and morally repugnant and tried to force you not to marry a man...that would be wrong. The issue has nothing to do with the specific gender match ups. It has to do with removing the rights of other people to practice their own moral code when it doesn't have any effect on anyone else but them.



    You can go to as many rallies and parades and protests for your cause that you like. No one is disputing your right to do those things. There were tons of them up here in Maine before the votes on gay marriage...none of them were arrested for doing so.
    We have all KINDS of laws on all KINDS of things that do not impeed anyone else.
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    WAiting for my history lesson please.

  6. #496
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    We have all KINDS of laws on all KINDS of things that do not impeed anyone else.
    Of the type where one group gets to do something another group does not? Based in religious beliefs?

    I don't think so.
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  7. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Gloria- I think Scalia raised an interesting argument that I hadn't thought of regarding gay marriage, too much. IS the age old question of state vs federal rights. At what point does the Federal government override state rights.. we have been getting all slippery over here in Oregon and Washington for sure with Marijuana Laws.. I think the country has forgotten what the Civil War was about.. it wasn't just about freeing or keeping slavery.. It was primarily in the beginning about the ability of each state to choose for themselves..

    Interesting how it all comes back to this again... Hope we can figure it out without another Civil War.. They sure thought they would back then.. but of course our society has forgotten History because we don't teach it.

    Yeah, I see a civil war looming over pot too. Totally I can picture it now.......

    "LIke, lets start a WAR brah, they are talking about taking away our kind buds bro, and that just aint copacetic, like, dude.

    TOTALLY, man, but, like, I'm like a pacifist and ****, so like, where are we going to get the guns and stuff?

    Maybe we could just, like climb some trees and stuff, you know, chain ourselves up there and all ? Like that girl, you know, the one with the long hair? You know, like Joan Baez or some **** did? She was like totally bangin Bob Dylan and ****, you know who I mean? We could do that and go all Gandhi on them and ****, so that they give us our kind buds man.

    Right on brah, speak it brother. 'Ere, have another man.

    Wait, where are those hash brownies, man? ****! The almond milk got left out on the counter again and its all green. Oh mannnnn. I bet if we just skim the green part off its all good, man. Totally, brah.

    Hey man, where's that 5 footer? Do you wannna throw some dice? Totalllllly brah.

    Dude what were we talking about? Right, Bob Dylan. Lets play some Quinn the Eskimo, dude, I love that guy.

    Right on."

    And that would be the end of THAT war.

    I know you people are all stockpiling weapons, but the rest of us are, like stockpiling STOCKS and normal things like that. We are scared of this sort of waco/civil war talk and think that it is total lunacy.
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  8. #498
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    Just wanted to point out that you are almost to 500 posts on this topic. My FB has been so full of posts on both side of the issue it is hard to get away from it.

    As I have thought about this subject this week and read FB posts from both sides of the issue, I think I have refinded how I think on this issue. While morally I am not sure about homosexuality and I do not believe it is for me personally, I do not think we can make it against the law. Each person needs to make their own choices in life. I do hate it when people take that stance on abortion, because we are talking about a human life being ended and I feel in that situation it is my business to try to help, gay marriage on the other hand does not hurt me nor does it hurt another life and therefore it is a different situation.

    Just my two cents.

  9. #499
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Yeah, I see a civil war looming over pot too. Totally I can picture it now.......

    "LIke, lets start a WAR brah, they are talking about taking away our kind buds bro, and that just aint copacetic, like, dude.

    TOTALLY, man, but, like, I'm like a pacifist and ****, so like, where are we going to get the guns and stuff?

    Maybe we could just, like climb some trees and stuff, you know, chain ourselves up there and all ? Like that girl, you know, the one with the long hair? You know, like Joan Baez or some **** did? She was like totally bangin Bob Dylan and ****, you know who I mean? We could do that and go all Gandhi on them and ****, so that they give us our kind buds man.

    Right on brah, speak it brother. 'Ere, have another man.

    Wait, where are those hash brownies, man? ****! The almond milk got left out on the counter again and its all green. Oh mannnnn. I bet if we just skim the green part off its all good, man. Totally, brah.

    Hey man, where's that 5 footer? Do you wannna throw some dice? Totalllllly brah.

    Dude what were we talking about? Right, Bob Dylan. Lets play some Quinn the Eskimo, dude, I love that guy.

    Right on."

    And that would be the end of THAT war.

    I know you people are all stockpiling weapons, but the rest of us are, like stockpiling STOCKS and normal things like that. We are scared of this sort of waco/civil war talk and think that it is total lunacy.
    That is my WHOLE point. It isn't about pot, homosexuality or Slavery.. There is a big underlying disagreement still about state vs Fed laws.
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  10. #500
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Of the type where one group gets to do something another group does not? Based in religious beliefs?

    I don't think so.
    Of course, from Amish and Native American (heck they are whole sovereign nations in our boarders), to issues such as religious exemptions for medical procedures- where without the exemption the person would be FORCED to comply with the law - From JW blood transfusions to some state exemptions for religion in vaccinating if you enter public school.. the list goes on.. There as I said TONS!

    We have other laws like truancy that do not apply to homeschoolers.. depending on the state it is different for each one.. granted this isn't necessarily a religious difference, but it is a law that parents can be imprisoned for, that if their child is homeschooled they can not be penalized.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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