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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Oh, I thought as a teacher you might be more concerned with the greater good. I'm not one of those ~ "lets teach them a lesson by making them puke' moms

    1. Standardized testing causes severe stress in younger students. According to education researcher Gregory J. Cizek, anecdotes abound "illustrating how testing... produces gripping anxiety in even the brightest students, and makes young children vomit or cry, or both." [7] On Mar. 14, 2002, the Sacramento Bee reported that "test-related jitters, especially among young students, are so common that the Stanford-9 exam comes with instructions on what to do with a test booklet in case a student vomits on it." [8]
    And I am? Why all the insults Melissa? I gave several instances that standardized testing can be helpful to teachers if used correctly. I've never had a student puke or cry because of a standardized test. Seriously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    IME tests that test for what grade level kids are reading at are very limited in their scope. My oldest DD was way ahead in reading but in first grade we stopped testing at 4.7 because the next level up books were subject matter that was not all the appropriate for a first grader. This year my kindergartener stopped at 3.2 because of the same thing. We were to the point of wondering what we would change as far as her education path if we knew where she tested. We dont want to bump her up a grade so knowing exactly where she tested was not going to matter
    Very true. Just surprised that they stopped testing at grade 2. During his IQ testing he was reading at end of grade 6 level, at his psychiatrist appointment the doctor handed him a text book that he was studying, other then a few words which he mispronounced he could read it...
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alana*sMommy View Post
    And I am? Why all the insults Melissa? I gave several instances that standardized testing can be helpful to teachers if used correctly. I've never had a student puke or cry because of a standardized test. Seriously.
    I'm not insulting you in any way. You imply that these tests give your children stress that you are okay with. You personally may not have had a child puke but clearly you are not the only teacher in the world, and clearly children do puke due to stress from these tests. That is sad, would you not agree? I'm arguing that for many children the stress is a lot ~ but beyond that ~ that the stress, whether a little or a lot, is unproductive. I don't care about the stress, frankly, I care about the results.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I'm not insulting you in any way. You imply that these tests give your children stress that you are okay with. You personally may not have had a child puke but clearly you are not the only teacher in the world, and clearly children do puke due to stress from these tests. That is sad, would you not agree? I'm arguing that for many children the stress is a lot ~ but beyond that ~ that the stress, whether a little or a lot, is unproductive. I don't care about the stress, frankly, I care about the results.
    I think it is sad that children have not learned coping skills to deal with the stress of standardized testing. I also think it is sad that you refuse to acknowledge that the results of standardized testing can be useful.

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    I think tests are useful. I think standardized testing is not, and wastes valuable classroom time as teachers are forced to teach to the test because of the consequences for the teacher, students, and school of low scores. I don't think those tests accurately measure the students' abilities or knowledge.

    The SATs are a great example. They're ridiculous. The reason they have all those classes you can take isn't because you need knowledge about English and Math, it's to teach kids how the test is structured and how it works so they can do better on it. It's an industry unto itself.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alana*sMommy View Post
    I think it is sad that children have not learned coping skills to deal with the stress of standardized testing. I also think it is sad that you refuse to acknowledge that the results of standardized testing can be useful.
    I was someone who liked test taking, personally. I actually liked taking the SAT's and whatnot, and I would agree with you that it IS sad that a child would get so worked up to vomit or something on a test. I would agree that parents should work harder to help their children not take things like this SO seriously and let things like this upset them so much.

    As to this latter part ~ Don't waste one moment of your wild and precious life being sad for me! Please! That would be so silly! If your position is that standardized testing is useful, prove it! I truly believe that teachers have a myriad of other ways to assess childrens strengths and weaknesses. This is a debate, Tanya, ~ you saying that you personally have never seen a child vomit is not enough proof that these tests are improving the quality of education in America, or cranking out a better calibre student. I'm way open to having my mind changed, but you feeling sad about my opinion is not going to change it! You presenting facts and/or data showing me how standardized testing has improved the depth and quality of education in america would. That is how debates work. Sadness shouldn't really play a part.
    Last edited by Potter75; 04-28-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I was someone who liked test taking, personally. I actually liked taking the SAT's and whatnot, and I would agree with you that it IS sad that a child would get so worked up to vomit or something on a test. I would agree that parents should work harder to help their children not take things like this SO seriously and let things like this upset them so much.

    As to this latter part ~ Don't waste one moment of your wild and precious life being sad for me! Please! That would be so silly! If your position is that standardized testing is useful, prove it! I truly believe that teachers have a myriad of other ways to assess childrens strengths and weaknesses. This is a debate, Tanya, ~ you saying that you personally have never seen a child vomit is not enough proof that these tests are improving the quality of education in America, or cranking out a better calibre student. I'm way open to having my mind changed, but you feeling sad about my opinion is not going to change it! You presenting facts and/or data showing me how standardized testing has improved the depth and quality of education in america would. That is how debates work. Sadness shouldn't really play a part.
    Perhaps you aren't reading my posts clearly. I'm not claiming that standardized testing is ALWAYS helpful in EVERY circumstance. I am claiming that it CAN be helpful IF used correctly. No study or research has been done on my teaching style or my practices in my classroom. I'd be willing to participate if you'd be willing to do the research though Melissa. You'd see that I don't teach to the test because I don't find that to be in my or my students' best interest. Instead I teach the standards that are given to me as guidelines because I know that all of those standards are fair game on the test. I do teach test taking strategies but it certainly doesn't monopolize our time and I consider those strategies to be very practical and useful throughout life. I help my students set realistic goals for themselves as well as make plans to achieve those goals. I make them aware of their weaknesses (based on previous standardized tests) and provide them with small group and one on one instruction in those areas. I teach them coping skills to deal with stress, not only for standardized testing but for any event in their life they may consider stressful. I build up their self esteem, not in a generic way, but in a personal and loving way because my students are my pride and joy and I care about their futures. And I celebrate with them when they achieve, grieve with them when they fail. When a student doesn't reach a goal we both must determine what we are going to do differently next time. My students know that the standardized testing window opens May 1st and they've been begging me for the last 2 weeks to let them take the test early. They are pumped up and excited about their final test because throughout the year it has been a positive experience for them.

    Debates don't have to be merely statistics and studies. Actually, it can be refreshing and practical to hear someone's personal account of things and their real life experiences. You can choose to ignore what I'm saying because I don't have hard data to back it up, but then you'd be denying what is really going on in many classrooms across America. What I think is sad is your snarky tone and blatant disrespect for others lately. I don't feel sorry for you, I just think it is sad that you take debates to that level. Teaching is something I'm passionate about and I'd love to debate education on a mature level.

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    Okay. I am truly sorry that you are sad. I'd give you a head pat if it would make you feel better.

    i think you are looking for insult where is isn't intended, so I'm sorry but i can't apologize for your being overly sensitive/ looking for insult when it isn't there. And while you truly like a wonderful, committed teacher I do agree with you- I'd prefer to debate the bigger picture of what these tests are doing to students and classrooms as a generality across our nation. Those stats exist and they arent positive. Thank you for your offer to do a study of you personally- while that sounds fascinating I'm a little busy right now

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Okay. I am truly sorry that you are sad. I'd give you a head pat if it would make you feel better.

    i think you are looking for insult where is isn't intended, so I'm sorry but i can't apologize for your being overly sensitive/ looking for insult when it isn't there. And while you truly like a wonderful, committed teacher I do agree with you- I'd prefer to debate the bigger picture of what these tests are doing to students and classrooms as a generality across our nation. Those stats exist and they arent positive. Thank you for your offer to do a study of you personally- while that sounds fascinating I'm a little busy right now
    My point exactly......

    Your posts are rude and condescending. I don't have the motivation nor energy to continue debating with you.

  10. #40
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    You also don't seem to have any stats or data to defend your position so you result to name calling and sarcasm. An offer to come study you! All this faux sadness as a way to try to insult me? Come on Tanya. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

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