California teacher loses job after her past is uncovered

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mom3girls's picture
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California teacher loses job after her past is uncovered

Calif. teacher with past in porn loses appeal - Yahoo! News

What do you think? Should she have lost her job considering making porn is not illegal?

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

I think it was the right decision. I agree with this:

Halas' decision to "engage in pornography was incompatible with her responsibilities as a role model for students and would present an insurmountable, recurring disruption to our schools should she be allowed to remain as a teacher," Chancer said in a statement.

smsturner's picture
Joined: 05/11/09
Posts: 1303

I think she should have been allowed to stay in her job, and wish people would leave her alone.

She did nothing criminal, and no one has any reason to believe that she would do harm to their children or damage them mentally. As long as she isn't showing her movies in class, it has nothing to so with her current job.

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

I don't know. I agree that since she didn't do the porn while she was a teacher then she didn't break any morality contracts but I do see their point that now that teachers and students know it seems to be compromising her position as a teacher in that school.

I would think the pressing issue is middle school students accessing online porn. I know it is normal and I'm not anti porn but as a parent I would be much more concerned with that than the fact that their teacher *used* to perform in pornos.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Halas was continually deceitful about her nine-month career in porn before she went to work at the school, the decision said."

I think the school should be able to fire her for whatever reason they saw fit for. Particularly if she lied on her job application about her past employment.

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

As a teacher I would say this would definitely have an effect on her ability to perform her job. Not that she did the porn, but that the students now know about it. Classroom management is hard, especially at middle school. She has totally lost the respect of these students, and without that I think she would have a very hard time controlling her class, and this would definitely effect those kids ability to learn. Same goes with communicating with parents. No matter how good a teacher she is, some parents are going to blame their child's poor performance on her past, which will effect their attitude towards her and her school.

Now, if she had been up front when this was discovered (I don't think she needed to tell them before they hired her), I would want them to quietly move her to an elementary position if possible, where this wouldn't be an issue with the students. However, as she continued to deny and this has become such a huge deal, it would be difficult now to move her into a spot where this wouldn't effect the school or students.

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

etc- What Kyla said!

I think middle school is too close to kids reaching their sexual awareness. I'd think that if she was an elementary or preschool provider, it'd be easy to keep the kids in the dark, but it's too easy to spread rumors at that age and there are way too many kids with smart phones who would show other kids the pictures/videos. I feel bad for her, but I wouldn't want my son to have a teacher he could watch having sex.

I also wonder about her teaching because if the article is correct, she says she did it because her boyfriend abandoned her. It bothers me that she doesn't take responsibility for her own actions. Her lawyer is correct that it doesn't hurt anybody in a general sense, but honestly I can't see how she would be able to continue on without creating a huge problem for both the parents and the administration. The kids needs should come first and if their access to education is hindered by all the drama surrounded by the teacher, then the administration made the right choice.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

It sucks but its obvious that her past has compromised her position in the present...it seems evident that it has already caused a disruption and is affecting her classroom environment.

Part of me wishes it didn't have that consequence, that people could move on and just leave the past in the past but i can see how that is really difficult with a bunch of middle school children.

Sometimes your past does come back to haunt you, even if its not illegal. Perhaps its not fair when it does...but life is not fair.

If i thought there was anything that they could do to attempt to 'fix' the situation without firing her, i think they should try that first. But I really don't know what could be done and I think they have less of an obligation to do so since she was not upfront and honest about it when confronted.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"KimPossible" wrote:

It sucks but its obvious that her past has compromised her position in the present...it seems evident that it has already caused a disruption and is affecting her classroom environment.

Part of me wishes it didn't have that consequence, that people could move on and just leave the past in the past but i can see how that is really difficult with a bunch of middle school children.

Sometimes your past does come back to haunt you, even if its not illegal. Perhaps its not fair when it does...but life is not fair.

If i thought there was anything that they could do to attempt to 'fix' the situation without firing her, i think they should try that first. But I really don't know what could be done and I think they have less of an obligation to do so since she was not upfront and honest about it when confronted.

Yeah, I begrudgingly agree. I was about to defend her, but I just google imaged her by name......and, well, yeah. I can't imaging walking back into my classroom having seen my teacher in those, ah, positions. Wishing I had one of those memory eraser sticks now that they have in men in black, actually, and she isn't even my teacher. Who uses their real name when they do pornos? Jeez. Dummy.

mom3girls's picture
Joined: 01/09/07
Posts: 1535

I was totally on her side, until I read that she lied to her employer for 9mths. I just dont think you can do that. I get why she lied though.

I also cant believe that her employer didnt know about the career before they hired her, unless she was paid under the table?

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

Halas was continually deceitful about her nine-month career in porn before she went to work at the school, the decision said.

Her lawyer Richard Schwab said Halas had tried to be honest but was embarrassed by her previous experience in the adult industry.

I would like to know more about this. I'm at the point in my career where I wouldn't list all of my previous jobs on an application. What exactly is meant by "deceitful"?

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

I have read that when questioned by the school about her past once it was found out in March she lied and under oath.

Melissa~It also said that she went by Tiffany Six. I'm wondering if she thought her real name wouldn't come out?

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

I really like this articles take on it. It is very ironic that we all "get over it" with some of these well known sinners.....but since this lady is a nobody she is doomed. It does seem so unfair.

[QUOTE]It was an embarrassing few minutes. The exposure was regrettable. The angle was bad. The dialogue was unrealistic. And it’s going to be on the Internet forever.
Never mind that it was years ago. It still comes right up when you Google it. Every so often, in moments of weakness, I allow myself to view it in its entirety, crying softly — although not at the office, of course.
By now you have surely guessed what I am talking about: Not the porn career of California teacher Stacie Halas, also known as “Tiffany Six.” Of course not. I meant former South Carolina governor Mark Sanford’s infamous rambling press conference in which he confessed to an affair, admitted to “crying in Argentina” and spoke bewilderingly of his struggle against self and thanked “the Tom Davises of this world.” As embarrassing videos posted on the Internet go, he has Kim Kardashian beat by several leagues.
Both Halas and Sanford are now making efforts to move past their pasts. And I regret to note that it seems to be working much better for him.
Mark Sanford is making a run for Congress in his former South Carolina district. And people seem to think this is a viable plan. “Hey,” they say. “Name recognition!” These are the same people who seem to think Anthony Weiner is an exciting mayoral prospect. Meanwhile, Halas tried to reinvent herself as a middle school science teacher, after a brief career in which she did not break up her family or mislead taxpayers. And she’s still out of a job.
“There are no second acts in American lives,” F. Scott Fitzgerald said. Well, unless you’re in politics.
In most lines of work, past indiscretions can be something of a hindrance. Leave an embarrassing video somewhere in the bowels of the Internet? Forget teaching middle school. Halas was fired in April from her post as a science teacher after students and faculty at the Haydock Intermediate School in Oxnard, Calif., discovered some of her videos online. And Friday the California Commission on Professional Competence (in a unanimous 46-page decision) ruled that she should stay out of the classroom. The situation was not helped by her efforts to conceal her past from her employers. The ruling called this more evidence of mendacity and further proof that she was no role model, although I have difficulty picturing a scenario in which you make no effort to conceal the fact that you used to appear in pornographic videos and someone hires you on the spot to teach middle school.
Perhaps that someone has a point. Middle schoolers are a uniquely cruel bunch. But if you are willing to walk into a classroom and teach them science, with the knowledge that this kind of video is lurking over your head on the Internet suspended by a tiny thread — well, this country does need math and science teachers…But the commission felt otherwise. There are no second chances in middle school science.
Back in the olden days, you always vaguely suspected that the librarian had a sordid past, but you could not quite prove it. What harm did it do? It did not impair her grasp of the Dewey Decimal System.
But not now. Lady Bracknell’s salad days as a can-can dancer are searchable. Don’t think of changing your legal name, James Gatz. Forget adopting that child with your prison record, Jean Valjean. There are no second acts in lives lived half online.
Celebrities can get away with these things. And even politicians, to a certain extent, can ride the wave of notoriety — at least as far as Eliot Spitzer’s talk show.
But what about the rest of us?
I kept assuming that we were about to hit the point where the saturation was complete, where, animated by the knowledge that there is no one alive whose college photos, if broadcast, would not fill the world with shock and horror, we would stop pulling the Gasp!-Behold-Hester-Prynne!-Someone-Stick-A-Giant-’A'-On-That-Lady! act and start accepting that we are all flawed, change is possible, and some allowances must be made. But we have not. We keep pointing. We keep thinking we are safe.
After all, some people are. In school we all knew that one guy Greg who kept a turtle, woke up early, read improving books, and never went out on Thursdays. But do we really want Gregs in charge of everything?
The judge in the porn star teacher’s case noted that the Internet is “viral” and “infinite”which is a gloomy way of looking at it. There are no comebacks. It is a giant bathroom wall where every scrawl will live forever. If you write big enough you can perhaps write over it. Look at Bill Clinton. But woe to you if that’s the only thing that’s up there. Rick Santorum had to mount a whole presidential campaign to fix his “Google problem.” The only way to induce people to forget is to make even more noise.
If Sanford and Halas’s respective plights demonstrate anything, it is the fact that It is not on the heads of celebrities or even political figures that the ax usually falls. If you are Ann Coulter and you say something deplorable, they book you on cable for more of the same. If you are an ordinary person, you get included in a list of Hideous Racists and lose your job at Coldstone Creamery.
No, it is clear that the artist formerly known as Tiffany Six is in the wrong line of work. Pornography is a poor choice for a first career. You can’t engage in congress on camera and try to engage in anything else afterwards, except to become one of those Famous Celebrities Everyone Dislikes.
Perhaps she should run for office instead. It could hardly make things worse. It might be her only hope.

[/QUOTE]

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"Potter75" wrote:

I really like this articles take on it. It is very ironic that we all "get over it" with some of these well known sinners.....but since this lady is a nobody she is doomed. It does seem so unfair.

Teachers sign contracts that have a "morals clause" in them. Making porn and having it posted all over the internet isn't exactly showing you have morals.

I do think there is more to this though. If they had done a proper background check (especially in CA) they would have found this when she applied for the job.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Sapphire Sunsets" wrote:

Teachers sign contracts that have a "morals clause" in them. Making porn and having it posted all over the internet isn't exactly showing you have morals.

I do think there is more to this though. If they had done a proper background check (especially in CA) they would have found this when she applied for the job.

Can you provide a link to an example of the morals clause CA teachers sign? I can't find any information saying you are right about that, so I'd like proof. Also, are the contracts retroactive and do they cover the time before a person became a teacher? She did this porn years ago when she wasn't contractually bound by anything. It appears that she had been honoring this "morality clause" you think she signed as she was not doing porn currently.

There are over 300,000 public school teachers in CA. Is having an extramarital affair against their "morality clause" because clearly that action would show that they have no morals (in your view, to use your words), I bet we ALL agree on that one. Do all teachers who have (or HAVE had) affairs get automatically fired? What about smokers? To some smoking is immoral. Some people think that women who don't cover their head, or who wear, say, shorts are immoral. I have several friends who used to teach who lived with their fiance before they were married ~ should they have been fired for living with a man out of wedlock? Would the more religious amongst us have the right to petition for the firing of a teacher due to their moral beliefs . How about if you had a DUI 8 years ago? Too immoral? A teacher goes on Vacation in Jamaica and smokes some weed, too immoral to teach?

I don't really believe that this teacher signed a morality clause. I bet in private schools you see this more, where people all have one idea of what "moral" means...............I just find it really hard to believe that this woman, a public school teacher, signed a clause in her contract that meant she was going to conform to some vague idea of morality, AND that it worked retroactively, covering every decision she had ever made prior to getting hired.

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

I dont know anything about CA, but here we have a 'code of conduct', and it is linked to our teachers certification, not our job. However, if you lose your certification you lose your job Smile Maybe she is thinking of something more like this? As far as I know it is not retroactive thought, it starts when you are certified (could be wrong about that, never had to worry about it so have never looked into it).

They do perform a background check (again with certification), but I'm not sure something like this would come up. Especially if she was payed under the table, or by a company that 'sounded' reputable. They might be able to get the name of the company, but it would be up to them to do the research on what the company actually did, and they do hundreds of these checks a year. It certainly wouldn't come up on a criminal check because it's not illegal.

I also dont think she had an obligation to disclose this herself. As someone else pointed out, I dont put my waitressing experience on my teaching resume, or the other way around. I only put what is relevant, and as long as this was not common knowledge it was not relevant to her teaching ability. I do think that if she had been up front about it when asked though, the school board should have an obligation to try to find a way to help her keep her job. But since she lied when directly asked she created a situation where they were forced to fire her. I understand why she did, and I feel sorry for her, but I do think this impairs her ability to teach these kids and that is what matters most to me in the school system.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

Yeah I'm frustrated the more i think about this. I don't think she should lose her job for the fact that she has been in any pornos in the past. I feel like it was justified because it had caused a disruption that i don't see fixable.

However at the same time, i don't want school communities to think that they can just cause an uproar about something to get someone fired if they want to.

And then I wonder how much of a disruption it would end up being. Is it temporary? Just as this whole story came out? Would people 5 years from now still be causing a disruption over it? I don't know.

I guess i don't know what the answer is. I think the whole thing really sucks.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Kim apparently NO parents went to the meeting about this. So I think that the "outrage" was all about other teachers/admin, not parents.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"Potter75" wrote:

Kim apparently NO parents went to the meeting about this. So I think that the "outrage" was all about other teachers/admin, not parents.

Hmm, well thats even more bothersome then.
ETA: For clarity, bothersome that the disruption seems to be internally induced. I should really proof read before I post *sigh*

As for the kids, I wonder how long the novelty of the situation would last.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

If a teacher can not be fired for lying to her bosses, what then do you feel is a justifiable reason to be fired?

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

If a teacher can not be fired for lying to her bosses, what then do you feel is a justifiable reason to be fired?

Who is this directed to?

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Potter75" wrote:

Who is this directed to?

Anyone who did not think the school should be able to fire her. What then is a reason a boss could fire someone if not lying?

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"Potter75" wrote:

Can you provide a link to an example of the morals clause CA teachers sign? I can't find any information saying you are right about that, so I'd like proof. Also, are the contracts retroactive and do they cover the time before a person became a teacher? She did this porn years ago when she wasn't contractually bound by anything. It appears that she had been honoring this "morality clause" you think she signed as she was not doing porn currently.

There are over 300,000 public school teachers in CA. Is having an extramarital affair against their "morality clause" because clearly that action would show that they have no morals (in your view, to use your words), I bet we ALL agree on that one. Do all teachers who have (or HAVE had) affairs get automatically fired? What about smokers? To some smoking is immoral. Some people think that women who don't cover their head, or who wear, say, shorts are immoral. I have several friends who used to teach who lived with their fiance before they were married ~ should they have been fired for living with a man out of wedlock? Would the more religious amongst us have the right to petition for the firing of a teacher due to their moral beliefs . How about if you had a DUI 8 years ago? Too immoral? A teacher goes on Vacation in Jamaica and smokes some weed, too immoral to teach?

I don't really believe that this teacher signed a morality clause. I bet in private schools you see this more, where people all have one idea of what "moral" means...............I just find it really hard to believe that this woman, a public school teacher, signed a clause in her contract that meant she was going to conform to some vague idea of morality, AND that it worked retroactively, covering every decision she had ever made prior to getting hired.

Morals Clause Law & Legal Definition

A morals clause is a provision in a contract or official document that prohibits certain behavior in a person's private life. They deal with behavior such as sexual acts and drug use.[quote]

Teachers' Rights: State and Local Laws - FindLaw

[quote]CALIFORNIA: Permanent teachers may be dismissed for immoral or unprofessional conduct, dishonesty, incompetence, evident unfitness for service, a physical or mental condition unfitting for a teacher to instruct or associate with children, persistent violation of school laws or regulations, conviction of a felony or crime involving moral turpitude, or alcoholism or drug abuse rendering teacher unfit for service. Teacher's certificate may be revoked or suspended on the same grounds as those for dismissal or suspension.

Any job you had before you become a teacher is questionable in a morals clause. If she was just doing the porn in her home and it never came out on the net (where students and parents can see it, BTW!) then it would be a non issue.

If you have to question whether doing something that could be considered immoral would influence getting a teaching job (or any job that has a morals clause) you probably shouldn't do it.

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

oh, and there is more to this! This article is from March. It is the same woman.

California Teacher Put on Leave For Allegedly Moonlighting as Porn Star - ABC News

A California science teacher who allegedly moonlighted as a porn star has been put on leave after fellow teachers used their smart phones to find the woman’s film credits.
The identity of the seventh and eighth grade teacher was not released by the Oxnard School District which is meeting tonight to decide what to do about the teacher’s other career.
In the meantime, the school district sent a letter home to parents. The letter, obtained by ABC News, advises parents that no students are involved in the scandal, but asks them to strictly monitor students so they do not access these sites that the letter says “contain extremely graphic and inappropriate pornographic material.”
The letter particularly asks parents to make sure their children do not share links or content on Facebook or other social networking sites.
Rumors of the teacher’s acting sideline started as gossip among students last Friday, but once these rumors reached administrators, they decided to take action.
“Some students at Richard B. Haydock Intermediate School started a rumor that one of the teachers at the school was involved in pornography,” Oxnard School District Superintendent Jeff Chancer told ABC News.
Administrators were unable to find the alleged movies because software within school computers prohibited access to inappropriate sites. After they could not verify the claims, administrators sent a memo assuring the school community this was all just a rumor.
However, teachers at the school searched sites on their smartphones, which could bypass the school’s protective firewall, and found X-Rated material supposedly featuring their colleague.
“Administrators looked at the videos and they felt that it may be one of their teachers. So they contacted the district and we investigated it,” Chancer told ABC News.
“We contacted the teacher over the weekend, met with her on Monday morning, and at 8 a.m. we placed her on administrative leave,” he said.
The Oxnard School District will meet tonight at a regularly scheduled board meeting and will discuss the future investigation and further action that will be taken.

Going by this, she was doing it currently.

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

Calif. Teacher With Past in Porn Loses Appeal - ABC News

A middle school teacher who was fired after students learned she had appeared in pornography has lost her appeal to return to the classroom, her lawyer said Tuesday.A three-judge panel unanimously decided Stacie Halas, 32, was unfit for the classroom. Halas was fired in April from her job as a science teacher at Haydock Intermediate School in Oxnard after online videos of her in porn were discovered by students and teachers.
"Although (Halas') pornography career has concluded, the ongoing availability of her pornographic materials on the Internet will continue to impede her from being an effective teacher and respected colleague,"
Judge Julie Cabos-Owen wrote in a 46-page decision issued Friday by the Commission on Professional Competence.
Halas was continually deceitful about her nine-month career in porn before she went to work at the school, the decision said.
Her lawyer Richard Schwab said Halas had tried to be honest but was embarrassed by her previous experience in the adult industry.

"Miss Halas is more than just an individual fighting for her job as a teacher," he said Tuesday. "I think she's representative of a lot of people who may have a past that may not involve anything illegal or anything that hurts anybody."Halas has been on administrative leave since the video surfaced in March.
Student claims that the teacher was moonlighting as a porn star were initially dismissed after school officials said they couldn't find any images of her on the Internet — but they were using the school's computers, which don't allow access to porn.
Teachers then showed administrators downloads of Halas' sex videos from their smartphones.
In hearings, former assistant principal Wayne Saddler testified that at the start of a sex video, Halas talked about being a teacher and he felt her effectiveness in the classroom had been compromised.
After rumors of her performance surfaced, profanity was etched on Halas' classroom window, a teacher testified.
Schwab has said Halas did not star in pornographic movies while teaching in any district. He said she took parts only during an eight-month period from 2005 to 2006 because of financial problems after her boyfriend abandoned her.
District superintendent Jeff Chancer applauded the commission's ruling.
Halas' decision to "engage in pornography was incompatible with her responsibilities as a role model for students and would present an insurmountable, recurring disruption to our schools should she be allowed to remain as a teacher," Chancer said in a statement.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Sapphire Sunsets" wrote:

Morals Clause Law & Legal Definition

[quote]A morals clause is a provision in a contract or official document that prohibits certain behavior in a person's private life. They deal with behavior such as sexual acts and drug use.[quote]

Teachers' Rights: State and Local Laws - FindLaw

Any job you had before you become a teacher is questionable in a morals clause. If she was just doing the porn in her home and it never came out on the net (where students and parents can see it, BTW!) then it would be a non issue.

If you have to question whether doing something that could be considered immoral would influence getting a teaching job (or any job that has a morals clause) you probably shouldn't do it.

I don't believe that the bolded is true, what are you basing that statement on? And are you saying that doing porn in private is moral, as long as it isn't on the internet? So the internet is what makes it immoral? So being a porn star on stage is fine, just not on the internet?

You have some interesting ideas of morality! Different than mine, obviously, but we already knew that. I still don't believe that she signed a morals clause to get her job. Even if she did, I don't see that a video she made 8 years ago when she was NOT bound to a contract has any bearing on any contract her teaching position may entail. Were I to submit a resume today to return to my career I would not include some waitressing or bartending jobs I held 18 years ago ~ they have nothing to do with my career in finance and sales. I don't think that it innately dishonest of her to leave off her brief stint in porn, it had nothing to do with her teaching career, and a resume is generally representative of ones experience or qualifications in a given field, not a detailed history of ones life.

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"Potter75" wrote:

[QUOTE=Sapphire Sunsets]Morals Clause Law & Legal Definition

[quote]A morals clause is a provision in a contract or official document that prohibits certain behavior in a person's private life. They deal with behavior such as sexual acts and drug use.

I don't believe that the bolded is true, what are you basing that statement on? And are you saying that doing porn in private is moral, as long as it isn't on the internet? So the internet is what makes it immoral? So being a porn star on stage is fine, just not on the internet?

You have some interesting ideas of morality! Different than mine, obviously, but we already knew that. I still don't believe that she signed a morals clause to get her job. Even if she did, I don't see that a video she made 8 years ago when she was NOT bound to a contract has any bearing on any contract her teaching position may entail. Were I to submit a resume today to return to my career I would not include some waitressing or bartending jobs I held 18 years ago ~ they have nothing to do with my career in finance and sales. I don't think that it innately dishonest of her to leave off her brief stint in porn, it had nothing to do with her teaching career, and a resume is generally representative of ones experience or qualifications in a given field, not a detailed history of ones life.

What I'm saying is that she was getting PAIDED to do it. If you are involved in the adult entertainment industry (or have been in the past) when it comes out in the open it's going to have an impact on your present job. You really think the students (who are the ones who found the videos) are going to take her seriously? Keeping her in that job would have made her life complete hell. They would have been calling her all sorts of names, and i'm sure that some even thought about propostitioning(sp?) her. She wasn't just doing porn with her s/o, she was doing it with random people and it wasn't just one video, there are several. Brief stint? A brief stint would have been a month or two, not 8 or 9 months. Besides the fact, do you want someone who did porn to pay to go to school as a teacher really teaching your kids?

You have no idea what my ideas of morality are. Can you debate without the jabs? They aren't necessary.

Have you ever filled out a app to be a teacher? I'm not going to assume they don't have a section where they ask if people had a past in the adult industry.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

I find this really frustrating. If her students had found out and it was causing a huge disruption, I could see how it is relevent, but even then one would hope that the school tried to work with her to find a solution before they fired her. The fact that her coworkers found out stirred up trouble makes it sound like a bunch of busybodies finding trouble where there didn't need to be any.

I will have to ask DH if he signed a "morality clause" to work in public school. Even if he did, I can't imagine how things that he did before he was a teacher would be included. If, for example, he was a big drinker in college (he wasn't, but stay with me here) and now he's not, is that a problem for his "morality clause?" I just don't see it.

Edit: Sorry, just re-read the article and saw that the students were the ones that found it. The first time I got confused by the line "No students were involved in this scandal" thinking that meant that no students had seen the video.

I still wish they would have tried to find a way to work with her instead of firing her.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Sapphire Sunsets" wrote:

[
What I'm saying is that she was getting PAIDED to do it. If you are involved in the adult entertainment industry (or have been in the past) when it comes out in the open it's going to have an impact on your present job. You really think the students (who are the ones who found the videos) are going to take her seriously? Keeping her in that job would have made her life complete hell. They would have been calling her all sorts of names, and i'm sure that some even thought about propostitioning(sp?) her. She wasn't just doing porn with her s/o, she was doing it with random people and it wasn't just one video, there are several. Brief stint? A brief stint would have been a month or two, not 8 or 9 months. Besides the fact, do you want someone who did porn to pay to go to school as a teacher really teaching your kids?

You have no idea what my ideas of morality are. Can you debate without the jabs? They aren't necessary.

Have you ever filled out a app to be a teacher? I'm not going to assume they don't have a section where they ask if people had a past in the adult industry.

I know that those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, I do know that for sure. And I know that no one is perfect. And I think that no one has a perfect past. And I think that this womans past is not illegal. Unsavory, perhaps, but not illegal. No, I haven't filled out an app to be a teacher, but I helped my sister with her resume and helped her prepare for her background check ~ I don't recall any questions asking her (or my BIL) about a history in porn or work as exotic dancers. Thats kind of silly.

You keep bringing qualifiers on her porn into this ~ wasn't doing it in a basement, wasn't doing it with her SO, wasn't just one video etc. Porn is Porn, no? She was single at the time, its not like she was having affairs on her spouse. She was having the same sex lots of single women have, she was just getting paid for it during a rough patch in her life. Does that really mean she can never have a legitimate job again? Seems like really really harsh justice. I can think of lots of people who have done immoral things, like cheating while married and putting it out there on the internet, who would be terrified at the thought of losing their jobs as a result. A good friend of mine just got busted having an affiar with her best friends husband ~ via the internet. Should she never be able to work again because she did something immoral and totally CRAPPY, but not illegal? It probably wouldn't seem fair to them (nor does it seem fair to me). People make mistakes, especially young people. Taking away their right to a career as a result seems really harsh.

I would hope that the teachers union would find a way to help her. Maybe a name change and a relocation within the state to a new job at the elementary level or something. It just seems unfair to me that she has to lose a position she is trained for because of something unrelated from her past.

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I find this really frustrating. If her students had found out and it was causing a huge disruption, I could see how it is relevent, but even then one would hope that the school tried to work with her to find a solution before they fired her. The fact that her coworkers found out stirred up trouble makes it sound like a bunch of busybodies finding trouble where there didn't need to be any.

Her students did find out and were causing a disruption. That's how they found out. After the kids where talking about it the teachers looked it up to find what the kids were talking about.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Potter75" wrote:

I know that those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, I do know that for sure. And I know that no one is perfect. And I think that no one has a perfect past. And I think that this womans past is not illegal. Unsavory, perhaps, but not illegal. No, I haven't filled out an app to be a teacher, but I helped my sister with her resume and helped her prepare for her background check ~ I don't recall any questions asking her (or my BIL) about a history in porn or work as exotic dancers. Thats kind of silly.

You keep bringing qualifiers on her porn into this ~ wasn't doing it in a basement, wasn't doing it with her SO, wasn't just one video etc. Porn is Porn, no? She was single at the time, its not like she was having affairs on her spouse. She was having the same sex lots of single women have, she was just getting paid for it during a rough patch in her life. Does that really mean she can never have a legitimate job again? Seems like really really harsh justice. I can think of lots of people who have done immoral things, like cheating while married and putting it out there on the internet, who would be terrified at the thought of losing their jobs as a result. A good friend of mine just got busted having an affiar with her best friends husband ~ via the internet. Should she never be able to work again because she did something immoral and totally CRAPPY, but not illegal? It probably wouldn't seem fair to them (nor does it seem fair to me). People make mistakes, especially young people. Taking away their right to a career as a result seems really harsh.

I would hope that the teachers union would find a way to help her. Maybe a name change and a relocation within the state to a new job at the elementary level or something. It just seems unfair to me that she has to lose a position she is trained for because of something unrelated from her past.

The porn aside, what about lying to her boss when he asked about it. For example, Bill Clinton was impeached for lying, not for having an affair. If she had told the truth when asked about it, I think it would be a different situation. There are some mistakes you can make while young that will unfortunately follow you the rest of your life. I know someone who while in their very early 20's had a drug arrest. He completely cleaned up his life, but has had a very difficult time finding a job anywhere with a felony on his record.

ETA - DH just corrected me and said he was a minor when he got the felony.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Her students did find out and were causing a disruption. That's how they found out. After the kids where talking about it the teachers looked it up to find what the kids were talking about.

Yes, I re-read it and corrected myself. Smile

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I find this really frustrating. If her students had found out and it was causing a huge disruption, I could see how it is relevent, but even then one would hope that the school tried to work with her to find a solution before they fired her. The fact that her coworkers found out stirred up trouble makes it sound like a bunch of busybodies finding trouble where there didn't need to be any.

I will have to ask DH if he signed a "morality clause" to work in public school. Even if he did, I can't imagine how things that he did before he was a teacher would be included. If, for example, he was a big drinker in college (he wasn't, but stay with me here) and now he's not, is that a problem for his "morality clause?" I just don't see it.

Edit: Sorry, just re-read the article and saw that the students were the ones that found it. The first time I got confused by the line "No students were involved in this scandal" thinking that meant that no students had seen the video.

I still wish they would have tried to find a way to work with her instead of firing her.

No, it's not a problem with a "morality clause." If drinking started effecting his ability to teach, then it would be an issue. It's still not technically the "morality" of it, but the inability to effectively do his job.

When I was 24 I started subbing for a...well...affluent, uppity area. I had very recently finalized my divorce and was adjusting to my new life as a single mom. While working as a long term sub, I was confronted by one of the parents about being an unwed mother! As though that would matter, but still it was just the idea that my morality was called into question by a parent like that!

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

The porn aside, what about lying to her boss when he asked about it. For example, Bill Clinton was impeached for lying, not for having an affair. If she had told the truth when asked about it, I think it would be a different situation. There are some mistakes you can make while young that will unfortunately follow you the rest of your life. I know someone who while in their very early 20's had a drug arrest. He completely cleaned up his life, but has had a very difficult time finding a job anywhere with a felony on his record.

ETA - DH just corrected me and said he was a minor when he got the felony.

The case was never about "lying to her boss" it was about her involvement in porn. If she were fired for lying, there wouldn't have been a need for the ruling about the porn and whether it causes a distraction or not.

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"Potter75" wrote:

I know that those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, I do know that for sure. And I know that no one is perfect. And I think that no one has a perfect past. And I think that this womans past is not illegal. Unsavory, perhaps, but not illegal. No, I haven't filled out an app to be a teacher, but I helped my sister with her resume and helped her prepare for her background check ~ I don't recall any questions asking her (or my BIL) about a history in porn or work as exotic dancers. Thats kind of silly.

You keep bringing qualifiers on her porn into this ~ wasn't doing it in a basement, wasn't doing it with her SO, wasn't just one video etc. Porn is Porn, no? She was single at the time, its not like she was having affairs on her spouse. She was having the same sex lots of single women have, she was just getting paid for it during a rough patch in her life. Does that really mean she can never have a legitimate job again? Seems like really really harsh justice. I can think of lots of people who have done immoral things, like cheating while married and putting it out there on the internet, who would be terrified at the thought of losing their jobs as a result. A good friend of mine just got busted having an affiar with her best friends husband ~ via the internet. Should she never be able to work again because she did something immoral and totally CRAPPY, but not illegal? It probably wouldn't seem fair to them (nor does it seem fair to me). People make mistakes, especially young people. Taking away their right to a career as a result seems really harsh.

I would hope that the teachers union would find a way to help her. Maybe a name change and a relocation within the state to a new job at the elementary level or something. It just seems unfair to me that she has to lose a position she is trained for because of something unrelated from her past.

First bolded: Porn is porn? Not when you're getting paided to do it.

second bolded: No, she can have a legitimate job....just not as a teacher (or any other profession where you sign a morality clause).

If she had been honest with them when they asked, they probably could have moved her to another job in the state.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Getting paid to do it is what makes it porn. Otherwise it's sex.

You have no basis at all for believing her honesty would have changed anything. It was the disruption which caused her dismissal. You can't prove in any way that honesty could have prevented said disruption.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Potter75" wrote:

You have no basis at all for believing her honesty would have changed anything. It was the disruption which caused her dismissal. You can't prove in any way that honesty could have prevented said disruption.

You do not have to prove something to have an opinion.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

You do not have to prove something to have an opinion.

In a debate it does help ones position.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Potter75" wrote:

In a debate it does help ones position.

But it goes both ways. You can not prove the reason she was fired was not that she lied to her boss. All you have is the ability to form opinions from the evidence provided.

ETA - This was not at all meant to be snarky. Just to say that in this debate, none of us were there, and neither side can "Prove" what happened. It is just opinion either way.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

But it goes both ways. You can not prove the reason she was fired was not that she lied to her boss. All you have is the ability to form opinions from the evidence provided.

ETA - This was not at all meant to be snarky. Just to say that in this debate, no of us were there, and neither side can "Prove" what happened. It is just opinion either way.

Sure I can. Have you read the Article, Bonita? It states quite clearly why she was fired. It states it very clearly, in fact.

Halas' decision to "engage in pornography was incompatible with her responsibilities as a role model for students and would present an insurmountable, recurring disruption to our schools should she be allowed to remain as a teacher," Chancer said in a statement.

So stop picking at me and read more closely. She was fired for being a disruption. Not for lying.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"ethanwinfield" wrote:

The case was never about "lying to her boss" it was about her involvement in porn. If she were fired for lying, there wouldn't have been a need for the ruling about the porn and whether it causes a distraction or not.

And Ethanwinfield already stated this quite neatly for you, Bonita. So did Gloria, actually. I don't know why you needed me to do it a third time. Debates don't have to be all about opinions when we are furnished with facts in the articles presented.

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

"Potter75" wrote:

Sure I can. Have you read the Article, Bonita? It states quite clearly why she was fired. It states it very clearly, in fact.

Halas' decision to "engage in pornography was incompatible with her responsibilities as a role model for students and would present an insurmountable, recurring disruption to our schools should she be allowed to remain as a teacher," Chancer said in a statement.

So stop picking at me and read more closely. She was fired for being a disruption. Not for lying.

I disagree that it was clearly stated why she was fired, as "Halas was continually deceitful about her nine-month career in porn before she went to work at the school, the decision said." is also stated in the article. If it wasnt a factor in the decision then why would it be part of the record?

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

I wouldn't be bothered with a former porn star teaching my kids unless of course it caused classroom disruption.

We all make decisions and this isn't illegal. I'm not going to hold someone's past against them. I've made very stupid decisions when I was in my 20s. I sure as heck wouldn't want that to prohibit me from working.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Halas' decision to "engage in pornography was incompatible with her responsibilities as a role model for students and would present an insurmountable, recurring disruption to our schools should she be allowed to remain as a teacher," Chancer said in a statement.

It doesn't say anything about her deceit being insurmountable. Pretty straightforward to me. Then again, I really don't care to nitpick it, if bonita wants to carry on about an issue that to me doesn't matter to the debate, have at it. To me the intent behind her dismissal is stated several times, the appeal being denied is based upon her career in porn being an insurmountable disruption/distraction.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

To me it boils down to if her boss has the right to fire her or not. I am not sure if porn is a valid reason to fire a teacher in this State or not, but I believe lying to your boss is. As I earlier asked, if you can not fire someone for lying, what can you get fired for?

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

Okay, just thought of something. If it wasn't in her application and she was never asked about it and possibly had no morality clause itemizing that she could not have been in porn in the past...what gives her employer the right to ask?

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Jessica80" wrote:

Okay, just thought of something. If it wasn't in her application and she was never asked about it and possibly had no morality clause itemizing that she could not have been in porn in the past...what gives her employer the right to ask?

I could completely be misreading things, but I was under the impression that they only asked after students found it out and were making a fuss about it.

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

Well, my coworker could find out that I had a heroin habit as a teen (I didn't) and tell my boss. I am under no obligation to answer that question and they can't ask me. I'm not doing heroin now.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

"Jessica80" wrote:

Well, my coworker could find out that I had a heroin habit as a teen (I didn't) and tell my boss. I am under no obligation to answer that question and they can't ask me. I'm not doing heroin now.

Honestly asking, why not? Is it a law? I admit to not being familiar with all of the laws here, let alone CA.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Okay. I take back all of my opinions. This lady deserved to go. The full draft of the hearing is here: READ DISCLAIMER BELOW BEFORE YOU CLICK ON LINK Stacie Halas decision

Its NASTY (the names of the pornos alone are foul, and there is some talk about what she does in the videos which is wayyyyy beyond vanilla stuff) so I will very much warn you to click at your own risk> Again, the link is foul. Foul.

She deserved to be fired. She was subbing while doing porn, and she was very deceitful. This was the THIRD district where she has been outed. It appears that her porn career was too long, too recent, and she looks exactly the same as she did in those videos. She will have to change her name, her look and probably her state to even have a chance at teaching, IMO

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

Well then that clinches it. She did it while teaching and that alone should be enough to terminate.

Bonita~no my boss cannot ask about past drug habits. If there is a concern about current drug habits that can vary. My employer is also not supposed to even ask me if I have kids during my hiring process. If they do, I have no obligation to answer and it is not considered lying in the future once I'm hired.

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