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  1. #41
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Last edited by Spacers; 10-23-2013 at 06:13 PM.

  2. #42
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    That is not what is going to happen, and it?s not what is happening here. This is not ?The Government.? It?s an independent panel of doctors. Yes, I believe that brain-dead bodies should be allowed to become fully dead-dead.
    So what if they are wrong? The brain is an amazing thing. If he responds to them how do you know that it isn't real?



    ?Little by little, his consciousness is getting more and more. His looking, to everybody, to movies, to pictures, changed. He understands everything but cannot respond,? said Salasel, speaking to the media Friday at Rasouli?s lawyer?s office. Salasel and Rasouli have two children, Mojgan and son Mehran.

    Hassan Rasouli's wife, Parichehr Salasel, and daughter Mojgan listen to their lawyer, Gary Hodder, explain their journey. Rasouli has been in a coma at Sunnybrook hospital for 3 years after contracting meningitis following surgery. Friday's ruling prevents doctors from being allowed to disconnect him from life support against the wishes of his family.

    When the case first went to trial he was comatose, said Salasel, but even then his family had faith that his condition would improve.
    ?We were surprised and shocked, what doctors were seeking to get,? Mojgan said in an interview with the Star. ?For us, it was obvious ? that it was too early, premature diagnosis for him. He needed time. And he got the time. Everything changed. Even the doctors changed their diagnosis.?
    Salasel said the passage of time brought new responses from Hassan.
    ?When I show him movies that he likes ? he smiled,? she says. ?Many signs I discovered in him that he is very aware. I asked him, ?Open your mouth. Stick out your tongue.? And he did, a lot of time.?

    His recovery was enough that, on Jan. 23, 2012, his condition was upgraded to ?minimally conscious.?
    ?Today he? there, his life is within his body, in every single (one) of his veins,? said Mojgan. ?As I said three years ago, he?s not able to communicate as usual, but he will communicate with us through his eyes, through grabbing our hands. I always feel his warmness of his hands.?
    Life support ruling: Family remains hopeful for Hassan Rasouli's continued recovery | Toronto Star

    Supreme Court of Canada rightly rules to protect Hassan Rasouli: Editorial | Toronto Star
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 10-23-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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  3. #43
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I do not think it is a huge stretch from a board being able say that someone can be taken off life support because we think their life has no value and it is costing to much to doing the same to children with birth defects and other handicapped people.
    They are not saying the persons life has no value. The board is to determine what is best for the person in the coma. Is it better FOR THE PERSON IN THE COMA to keep them alive artificially(forgive my question marks are messed up). Not is it better for society, or the family, but is it better for that one individual person to be kept alive.
    Kyla
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  4. #44
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Nobody is saying that it wont. All that is being said is that if the doctors and family disagree about treatment (or stopping it) then it goes to this independent comittee to decide. An independent committee of educated individuals who will be swayed by facts from both sides, and not rely on newspaper articles (which always have an agenda IMO) to make their decision.
    Kyla
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  5. #45
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftmom View Post
    Nobody is saying that it wont. All that is being said is that if the doctors and family disagree about treatmeant (or stopping it) then it goes to this independent comittee to decide. An independent committee of educated individuals who will be swayed by facts from both sides, and not rely on newspaper articles (which always have an agenda IMO) to make their decision.
    And I am not confident that this committee won't have their own agenda also. Especially when money is involved.
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  6. #46
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    This is not a slippery slope. It's a very, very high cliff and I have no doubt at all that no one will be jumping off of it. This is not natzi Germany and, if you've read the history about it, you'd know that this is a much different world now and there is no way that is never going to happen again.
    And the fact is that other people *are* right now making those kinds of decisions. It?s judges because these kinds of disagreements, where there isn?t a so-called ?death panel,? end up in courts. I'd actually rather have a team of independent doctors -- the people who know most about these conditions, the available treatments and comfort methods, and the prognoses -- making these decisions than uneducated judges -- who rely on briefs written mostly by biased parties -- and taking up precious court time that should be better used for other things.



    That is not what is going to happen, and it?s not what is happening here. This is not ?The Government.? It?s an independent panel of doctors. Yes, I believe that brain-dead bodies should be allowed to become fully dead-dead. If you want your micro-preemie saved at all costs, including a lifetime of disability and pain, then go for it, but that?s not what I would have wanted for my family or my child. And if the medical interventions aren?t working, then I think the humane thing to do is to let your child die peacefully. When I was pregnant each time, we were asked what we wanted if our child was born early, and I don?t understand why that isn?t a standard question for every pregnant woman everywhere. And no one is advocating killing children with Down syndrome or paraplegics, and that?s not going to happen. See ?not a slippery slope? above.
    You know what the 'funny' thing is? Contrary to what some may think, that it's a bunch of Kevorkians on this quasijudicial panel, it is actually NOT made up of doctors, and they are NOT hospital staff. I guess there goes Gloria's idea that it's a way for hospitals to save money, by killing off the ones on life support.
    blather likes this.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2robbie View Post
    Nursing homes are not just a place to go to die.
    I missed this earlier. I was responding to the below comment. I can see re-reading it that I read it wrong the first time, thinking she had said that nursing homes were where people go to die, not be kept artificially alive. I apologise as I must have been reading too fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    I don't know about nursing homes in the US, but in Canada you will not find a patient on life support in a nursing home or palliative care facility. Palliative care is where people go to die, not to be kept artificially alive.

    ~Bonita~

  8. #48
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    You know what the 'funny' thing is? Contrary to what some may think, that it's a bunch of Kevorkians on this quasijudicial panel, it is actually NOT made up of doctors, and they are NOT hospital staff. I guess there goes Gloria's idea that it's a way for hospitals to save money, by killing off the ones on life support.
    I don't care WHO they are, unless it could be proven they are abusive or something, no one will have someone's best interests at heart more than their own family.
    AlyssaEimers likes this.
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  9. #49
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    I firmly believe that it should be between the family and the doctors, with no government intervention.

    I also think this is another blaring example of why every person should have a living will. My family will never have to guess what I would want, I have had a living will in place for a very long time
    AlyssaEimers likes this.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I don't care WHO they are, unless it could be proven they are abusive or something, no one will have someone's best interests at heart more than their own family.
    Not really true. Too many emotions. We will tend to go with what makes us feel better not necessarily what is best for the patient.

    As is pointed out, this already kind of exists. If you don't have dollar caps (which are going away due to ACA) then I highly doubt your private insurance will pay for non medically necessary ongoing care. If you are not progressing they will stop covering your stay and you would need to be discharged.
    mommydearest likes this.
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