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  1. #51
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Not really true. Too many emotions. We will tend to go with what makes us feel better not necessarily what is best for the patient.

    As is pointed out, this already kind of exists. If you don't have dollar caps (which are going away due to ACA) then I highly doubt your private insurance will pay for non medically necessary ongoing care. If you are not progressing they will stop covering your stay and you would need to be discharged.
    Yes there are emotions as there should be when making a decision to let someone die. It should be the family that makes that decision.

    I already said that I would have no problem if they were moved to a less expensive facility like a nursing home, or even home care. It seems kind of a double whammy to say that in Canada they can't be moved to a cheaper facility but then they are going to pull the plug because they don't want to pay for more expensive care.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 10-23-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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  2. #52
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    I'm okay with it no matter what but I think they family needs to foot the bill. Private insurance or taxpayer money. If physicians AND an independent review board say there's no hope and YOU want to keep them alive. YOU can pay.
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  3. #53
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    I firmly believe that it should be between the family and the doctors, with no government intervention.

    I also think this is another blaring example of why every person should have a living will. My family will never have to guess what I would want, I have had a living will in place for a very long time
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    And I am not confident that this committee won't have their own agenda also. Especially when money is involved.
    But the board will never see this money, whatever they decide. There really isnt any money involved for them. And not sure how this is WORSE than how it is handled in the states where a judge decides. At least this is a committee where any radical voice would be tempered by the group. A judge is just one person and would also have his (or her) own agenda.
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  4. #54
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Families in grief don't always make good decisions (what's the first stage of grief? hello? denial!!!) and they don't always make the decision the person would have wanted, as evidenced by the fact that there are actually a lot of cases where a person has a DNR order, or a living will that states they don't want to be kept alive by artificial means or that they want their organs donated, and the family tries to overrule it. A lot of those cases end up in the courts because the hospitals don't want to be sued after the fact so they seek approval from someone else at the front end. If everyone had a living will, and if the families honored them, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm very surprised that the man in the OP was allowed to have freakin' brain surgery without first having a medical directive. I needed to have one on the chance I might need a c-section!

    And ITA with whomever said that nursing homes aren't equipped to handle life support equipment. That's been my experience, too, and home health care nurses won't handle it, either.
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  5. #55
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I'm very surprised that the man in the OP was allowed to have freakin' brain surgery without first having a medical directive. I needed to have one on the chance I might need a c-section!
    How do you know he didn't? Maybe he did want to be kept alive. They said it is because of their religious beliefs so chances are he had the same beliefs. Why would we need medical directives if we are making the assumption that everyone would WANT a DNR order?
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  6. #56
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    If he had one, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the hospital would be obligated to abide by it short of a court order. We're having this discussion because the family wants something other than what the hospital wants, which indicates to me that the hospital has no prior directions from him about what he wants.

    And how do we know that his religious beliefs are the same as his family's? I'm sure if my family, my mom & sisters, were at my hospital bedside, they would say their religious beliefs are leading them to their decision-making but that doesn't mean I agree with either their religious beliefs or the decision it leads them to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I don't care WHO they are, unless it could be proven they are abusive or something, no one will have someone's best interests at heart more than their own family.
    And all these families agree? Add they all have specialized knowledge of brain death?

  8. #58
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Yes there are emotions as there should be when making a decision to let someone die. It should be the family that makes that decision.

    I already said that I would have no problem if they were moved to a less expensive facility like a nursing home, or even home care. It seems kind of a double whammy to say that in Canada they can't be moved to a cheaper facility but then they are going to pull the plug because they don't want to pay for more expensive care.
    You're not getting it, Gloria. "They" have no financial incentive to "pull the plug". And as some of us have already said, people on life support, in Canada, do not get moved to nursing homes. This is NOT about the money. I find it somewhat curious as to why you, the staunch anti-socialist, care so much about the evil money-hungry hospitals in Canada not "pulling the plug" on these patients. I would bet the farm that if you, based on your health care views, were contributing a substantial percentage of your taxes to a universal-type health care system that was paying millions of dollars keeping ONE clinically brain-dead patient alive you'd be yelling for the hospital to turn off the machines. Why the hypocrisy?

  9. #59
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    You're not getting it, Gloria. "They" have no financial incentive to "pull the plug". And as some of us have already said, people on life support, in Canada, do not get moved to nursing homes. This is NOT about the money. I find it somewhat curious as to why you, the staunch anti-socialist, care so much about the evil money-hungry hospitals in Canada not "pulling the plug" on these patients. I would bet the farm that if you, based on your health care views, were contributing a substantial percentage of your taxes to a universal-type health care system that was paying millions of dollars keeping ONE clinically brain-dead patient alive you'd be yelling for the hospital to turn off the machines. Why the hypocrisy?
    There might not be a financial incentive for them personally but I would guess they would feel some obligation to save that money, otherwise why would the hospital even be asking for the machines to be turned off? The hospital isn't asking to turn off the machines because they care about the patient, they are asking because of the money. And no I wouldn't be yelling for them to turn off the machines, I would be yelling to come up with a cheaper alternative because it is ridiculous for it to cost millions just to keep someone alive. If they are spending millions to keep someone in a hospital that could be cared for in a less expensive facility that is not the fault of the patient and they shouldn't be allowed to die for that reason.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    You're not getting it, Gloria. "They" have no financial incentive to "pull the plug". And as some of us have already said, people on life support, in Canada, do not get moved to nursing homes. This is NOT about the money. I find it somewhat curious as to why you, the staunch anti-socialist, care so much about the evil money-hungry hospitals in Canada not "pulling the plug" on these patients. I would bet the farm that if you, based on your health care views, were contributing a substantial percentage of your taxes to a universal-type health care system that was paying millions of dollars keeping ONE clinically brain-dead patient alive you'd be yelling for the hospital to turn off the machines. Why the hypocrisy?
    That is the point. The government should not be involved (other than creating guidelines) in people's care. It should not be coming out of tax dollars so every random person thinks they have a say in their care.

    ~Bonita~

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