Thread: Chicago Teacher's Strike

Originally Posted by myyams

I also think teachers are doing a very important job. But, there are lots of professions that even get paid less for their important work. Teachers get more breaks than lots of other professions - than any other profession I know of. So I'm not sure they aren't being compensated fairly.

Their pay is pro-rated so they are paid for the full 12 months, but the appropriate yearly amount for 9 months or whatever. Teachers also rarely only work during the school hours. My DH goes in 45 minutes before school starts so that he can be a resource to kids who come in needing help for their homework, and stays at least an extra hour after to school for the same reason, and to make sure that all of the kids are out of the building before the teachers leave. He also sponsors an after school club once a week where he stays even later to just stay and basically "watch" the kids so they can have their club on school grounds. He then comes home and spends a chunk of his evenings and weekends making lesson plans, grading papers, communicates with parents, et cetera. All of that is included in his base pay, it's not like he gets extra money for the extra hours spent. Whenever they have extra-curricular activities (fund raisers, dances, parent teacher conferences, whatever) he works those as well, without extra pay. During the summer he does ongoing professional development (taking classes, attending seminars, et cetera) which he does not get paid extra for, although to be fair when he reaches certain thresholds of training hours he does get raises. It's not as simple as school starts at 7:15 and ends at 2:30 and those are the only hours they work. They do a LOT outside of the regular school hours that I think people forget to count in when they are looking at how much teachers work vs how much they get paid. And these people are with your children all day every day, giving them the skills they will need to eventually become productive members of society; you want to attract great people that are willing to work hard, and part of that does need to be reflected in the pay and benefits. I agree with ethanwinfield, if my work came to me and said they wanted me to work an extra week without extra pay, I would be peeved, no matter how much I make now. I'm sure the rest of you would too.

Originally Posted by ethanwinfield

You mean like all summer and the weekend before the strike? If the district cared about the kids...

Yes, it should be the district. Whatever is decided before the school year and signed should be abided by. Whatever is to be in the contract should be decided and signed before the school starts. NOW is not the time for these negotiations and issues.

Originally Posted by myyams

What's wrong with this? Don't parents still pay tax that go toward the public schools they aren't using if their kids are in private (religious or non religious or homeschooled) schools? I guess people could say that they are paying tax and don't even have kids in school etc. It's just that sometimes the feeder school is horrible and parents want their kids out of them but can't yet afford to move from that area into a 'posh' area that has a 10, but they at least want to try to get their kids into a better school environment, albeit religious or secular 'private' school. Do you think those children should be deprived of that opportunity?

Public school is an investment in the community which is why everyone pays for it whether they have children or not. If your public schools are struggling, diverting money away from them is not the way to fix it. I believe parents have a right to send their kids to private school - as long as they are willing to pay for it or get scholarships from the school. Alternately, I believe private schools have a right to accept tax payer's money, as long as they are willing to abide by the same rules that all public schools abide by, including the first amendment which would mean they need to become secular. I don't think they can have their cake and eat it too.

I understand. As a parent, I also help the students at school. We have the PTO and I volunteer for TWO schools. I don't get paid for that. Some parents volunteer for escorting students from car to school or school to car. We all fill in. My husband works A LOT of hours he doesn't get paid for. The doing extra work isn't exclusive for teachers. I am not saying it's right. I think teachers should be strict about their time and negotiate all of this into their contracts. Everything should be written down. NOW though is not the time; someone's gotta let go of the tug o war rope til next year's contract negotiations.

Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal

Their pay is pro-rated so they are paid for the full 12 months, but the appropriate yearly amount for 9 months or whatever. Teachers also rarely only work during the school hours. My DH goes in 45 minutes before school starts so that he can be a resource to kids who come in needing help for their homework, and stays at least an extra hour after to school for the same reason, and to make sure that all of the kids are out of the building before the teachers leave. He also sponsors an after school club once a week where he stays even later to just stay and basically "watch" the kids so they can have their club on school grounds. He then comes home and spends a chunk of his evenings and weekends making lesson plans, grading papers, communicates with parents, et cetera. All of that is included in his base pay, it's not like he gets extra money for the extra hours spent. Whenever they have extra-curricular activities (fund raisers, dances, parent teacher conferences, whatever) he works those as well, without extra pay. During the summer he does ongoing professional development (taking classes, attending seminars, et cetera) which he does not get paid extra for, although to be fair when he reaches certain thresholds of training hours he does get raises. It's not as simple as school starts at 7:15 and ends at 2:30 and those are the only hours they work. They do a LOT outside of the regular school hours that I think people forget to count in when they are looking at how much teachers work vs how much they get paid. And these people are with your children all day every day, giving them the skills they will need to eventually become productive members of society; you want to attract great people that are willing to work hard, and part of that does need to be reflected in the pay and benefits. I agree with ethanwinfield, if my work came to me and said they wanted me to work an extra week without extra pay, I would be peeved, no matter how much I make now. I'm sure the rest of you would too.

Originally Posted by ethanwinfield

You know that's not the point. It doesn't matter how long their contracted work day is, their work hours and salary were negotiated and that is what the contract is.

If you had a contract that you would preform 45 hours of work over the course of the week and based on that your salary is negotiated at X. Your boss unilaterly tells you you will now be required to work 50 hours per week with no increase in pay and no negotians. Your boss unilaterly tells you you will now be required to work 40 hours for 11% less pay. See the difference?

All of the salaried positions my X held were based on a specific number/average of hours. Yes, some weeks were more; some were less. But a permanent deviation of 11% would result in negotiations over salary also.

Looking at non-salaried employees, you can't unilaterly tell an employee they have to work 11% with no increase in pay. The labor board would be all over that.

Also, according to their contract, their work day is 6 hours 45 minutes. (With lunch which would be standard after 6 hours.) The student day is scheduled 8:30 - 3:30 which is 7 hours. But if you really think that's all the time teachers put in, follow me for a week. Heck, even a day would suffice.

I'm sure you do put in extra hours, but you also get time off that other people don't get during the summer and holidays. Hey I have plenty of respect for teachers, I have 5 teachers in my immediate family. The point is that these teachers have been overpaid because of the union for years, and with the benefits they receive compensation much higher than private sector jobs in that area and higher than teachers in other areas also. So now when the city is going broke and can't afford to pay them for the extra hours that the kid's need because they are FAILING, they go on strike. So yes in this case I feel the teachers are wrong to go on strike and put their selfish needs ahead of students.

Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal

Public school is an investment in the community which is why everyone pays for it whether they have children or not. If your public schools are struggling, diverting money away from them is not the way to fix it. I believe parents have a right to send their kids to private school - as long as they are willing to pay for it or get scholarships from the school. Alternately, I believe private schools have a right to accept tax payer's money, as long as they are willing to abide by the same rules that all public schools abide by, including the first amendment which would mean they need to become secular. I don't think they can have their cake and eat it too.

I know a lot of parents who send their kids to a Catholic school despite being Atheist. They send them there because that particular Catholic school has GREAT education and discipline. Parents are trying to give their kids the best education they know. Often that doesn't reside in the feeder school.

Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal

Their pay is pro-rated so they are paid for the full 12 months, but the appropriate yearly amount for 9 months or whatever. Teachers also rarely only work during the school hours.

So do you think that teachers are the only ones who put in hours that they aren't paid for? I have worked in IT jobs for 20 years and I can assure you that isn't the case. There are MANY other jobs where salaried employees work extra hours or on call for hours that they are not paid for.

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

So do you think that teachers are the only ones who put in hours that they aren't paid for? I have worked in IT jobs for 20 years and I can assure you that isn't the case. There are MANY other jobs where salaried employees work extra hours or on call for hours that they are not paid for.

No. Unless your job is just a punch-in-punch-out sort of job (receptionist; data entry, etc.), you take your work home with you. The problem is that people assume -YOURSELF INCLUDED - that teachers don't do this.

Originally Posted by ethanwinfield

No. Unless your job is just a punch-in-punch-out sort of job (receptionist; data entry, etc.), you take your work home with you. The problem is that people assume -YOURSELF INCLUDED - that teachers don't do this.

I know for sure teachers take their work home. I would imagine Gloria, and lots of others do too. I think the issue is that people don't have an extreme amount of sympathy for teachers when they themselves are doing the same thing yet, they are not getting the plentiful days off like teachers are getting. I still agree though that people should get paid what they work.

Originally Posted by ethanwinfield

No. Unless your job is just a punch-in-punch-out sort of job (receptionist; data entry, etc.), you take your work home with you. The problem is that people assume -YOURSELF INCLUDED - that teachers don't do this.

Exactly!!!! I only bring it up because you (Gloria) were saying that teachers only work 5 1/2 hours a day, which is not correct. The school may only be open for that time period, but teachers do a heck of a lot outside school hours. It's false to say they only work 5 1/2 hours a day and get paid X amount for it. That's the point I was trying to make.