The Dairy Cliff

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Spacers's picture
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The Dairy Cliff

Just heard something on my evening news about how, if the "fiscal cliff" scenario happens, the price of milk could double within a few months. That's because one part of the Farm Bill, which is one of the laws up for renewal on January 1st, controls the dairy market. Without it, pricing would go back to an outdated law put in place during the Truman era. The government would be required to buy dairy products based on 1949 production costs, when milking was done by hand. That would double today?s price.

This wouldn't affect me much since we don't drink milk & don't use much milk in cooking, but I've seen other families at the grocery store with 4 or 5, even 6 gallons of milk in their carts. How would your family be affected if the price of milk doubled?

Joined: 05/23/12
Posts: 692

Milk is a big part of our diet, in that I have 4 kids who drink two glasses each a day. The little one still drinks three glasses. So we go through about half a gallon a day. We would continue to buy and provide this milk for our family but the price stinks. I mostly feel horrible for the families who are struggling. We are already buying only organic milk, so I am not sure what the price will be for that.

I do think they will fix this issue though. There is no way they wouldn't. Perhas WIC and foodstamps will increase to cover the costs if it does not pass on time.

"Spacers" wrote:

Just heard something on my evening news about how, if the "fiscal cliff" scenario happens, the price of milk could double within a few months. That's because one part of the Farm Bill, which is one of the laws up for renewal on January 1st, controls the dairy market. Without it, pricing would go back to an outdated law put in place during the Truman era. The government would be required to buy dairy products based on 1949 production costs, when milking was done by hand. That would double today?s price.

This wouldn't affect me much since we don't drink milk & don't use much milk in cooking, but I've seen other families at the grocery store with 4 or 5, even 6 gallons of milk in their carts. How would your family be affected if the price of milk doubled?

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6698

I could be mistaken, but I do not believe this is tied to the financial cliff. The article I read said that they were so busy with the financial cliff, that they just did not have time to deal with the milk issue. (But they do have time to make sure they all have their raises)

I will go see if I can find it.

As to the debate question, it has always puzzled me why when visiting NY milk costs anywhere from $1.99/gallon to $3/gallon, but here in TN we normally pay anywhere from $3.50/gallon for cheap off brand milk when it is on sale to $6/gallon for the name brand milk. Milk going up to $7/gallon would not hurt us that much because we are already used to milk costing a lot, but it would really hurt the families I know in NY.

ETA - Price of milk could rise if farm bill not passed | www.wsoctv.com

Joined: 08/17/04
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I get approx. 2 gallons every week so we would feel it.

I pay about 2.69 a gallon. It amazes me how high milk is in some places! Some grocery stores I see the milk at 3.99 and I refuse to pay that much for milk when I know I can get the same milk much cheaper.

It wouldn't stop me from buying it as I consider it an essential in my home but it would add on to our grocery bill.

Joined: 03/14/09
Posts: 624

I pay $14.50 a gallon. Or would if we could buy gallons. We drink less milk than we would if we were in the US but we also have other sources of calcium, like fish bones, tofu, and spinach.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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Is that the equivalent of $14.50 in US dollars? Wow.

Joined: 03/14/09
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Yes, sorry I converted to USD.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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That is an awful lot for milk. I forget, do you live in England? I think I would be tempted to buy a cow. Nah, You would have to get up way to early to take care of it...

Joined: 05/23/12
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Wow 14.50! We pay 5.89 for Organic but the reg price is 2.89. We totally need our own cow as we spend at least $20 a week just for milk.

Joined: 03/14/09
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I have a cow "share", as I make my own cheese as a hobby. I would prefer a goat, actually, but we really don't have enough land. Sad

smsturner's picture
Joined: 05/11/09
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I would be interested to know if this would help dairy farmers or hurt them. If it would help my local dairy farms, I would be happy to pay double for milk. (Now it's 3.50)
I wonder if this is for all states? Some states have laws designed to protect dairy farmers by keeping the milk at a higher price and allowing no sales or discounts (PA has this law).

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Yikes! We went from drinking a tiny bit of raw milk to not drinking any cows milk, though we do eat some yogurt and lots of cheeses....... but I could see how this would be dire for many in the middle class, at least on the surface. Long term it would probably be great for their health as dairy isn't meant to be such a giant part of the diet as it is for most americans, and I bet that if people could no longer afford to feed their children glass after glass of milk we would see a swift increase in the overall health of our nation as a whole.

Joined: 03/08/03
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We drink less than we used to but I bake with it and we use it for cereal, coffee, etc. Juliet still likes a glass of it every day. It's already expensive although we gave up on organic milk because the lack of any kind of real regulations around it means that it's probably all the same anyway. (so annoying)

We would notice it for sure as we always have milk in the house.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Joined: 04/10/09
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We normally just have milk around for cereal, baking, cooking, and coffee. All though I do buy the organic milk, I'm not sure just how much better it is but whatevs. We eat cheeses and yogurt as well. Jace loves rice topped with yogurt.

Joined: 08/17/04
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I couldn't find too much on Mass. regulations unless it surrounded raw milk but I know we can't use coupons and I believe there is a minimum of what a store can charge and that is statewide.

My kids have about 1 glass a day and the rest is for cereal, cooking and our coffees. DD1 is off yogurt right now and will only eat american cheese in a grilled cheese and a cheese stick right now so trying to balance her calcium needs.

Joined: 03/08/03
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OH yeah, the kids eat a ton of yogurt plus I bake with yogurt like crazy, I use it as a replacement for butter & oil all the time. Plus cheese...the kids love cheese.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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My local news said they reached an agreement to extend things as they are for one year.

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Good- keep people fat and breast cancer high and diabetes rampant...... But not fix the military budget! Gotta love the USA!!!

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"Potter75" wrote:

Good- keep people fat and breast cancer high and diabetes rampant...... But not fix the military budget! Gotta love the USA!!!

Hey, leave my dairy love alone! Smile

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
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Well, I had to stop drinking regular milk because I'm lactose intolerant, but the rest of the family still drinks it. Ben seems to fare better on Lactaid like me, and you don't want to know what 2 liters of Lactaid costs! A gallon of regular 1% milk here costs $4.69 in the local grocery store. A gallon of organic milk is about $7 or $8.

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"freddieflounder101" wrote:

Hey, leave my dairy love alone! Smile

Hey I spent a large portion of my evening eating brie and boursin......while I don't drink it I do love its wonderful uses......but I think that we as Americans have a weird fascination and/or unhealthy obsession with feeding our young children the milk of bovines. Its kindov gross on some level. When you really think about it. Like, what COWS look like, vs. what children look like, And then we stuff these little children full of COW juice and .........well, its just all kindov ick to me.

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"Potter75" wrote:

Hey I spent a large portion of my evening eating brie and boursin......while I don't drink it I do love its wonderful uses......but I think that we as Americans have a weird fascination and/or unhealthy obsession with feeding our young children the milk of bovines. Its kindov gross on some level. When you really think about it. Like, what COWS look like, vs. what children look like, And then we stuff these little children full of COW juice and .........well, its just all kindov ick to me.

No ickier to me than eggs, shrimp, lobster, beef, pork, or anything else. Eggs are actually much weirder than milk.

smsturner's picture
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"Potter75" wrote:

Good- keep people fat and breast cancer high and diabetes rampant...... But not fix the military budget! Gotta love the USA!!!

Milk actually helps you lose weight. It does NOT cause cancer, and it can actually reduce your diabetes risk.

Myths like that are what causes our dairy farmers to struggle.

"Potter75" wrote:

Hey I spent a large portion of my evening eating brie and boursin......while I don't drink it I do love its wonderful uses......but I think that we as Americans have a weird fascination and/or unhealthy obsession with feeding our young children the milk of bovines. Its kindov gross on some level. When you really think about it. Like, what COWS look like, vs. what children look like, And then we stuff these little children full of COW juice and .........well, its just all kindov ick to me.

It's not weird. It's healthy. People have drunk the milk of other mammals since they figured out how to get it out of them. There is a reason they have been doing it for so long!

Health benefits of milk

Obesity

Contrary to popular belief, research has shown that people who consume milk and dairy foods are likely to be slimmer than those who do not.

Studies have also shown that consumption of milk and dairy foods as part of a calorie controlled diet is associated with increased weight loss, particularly form the abdomen.

This is particularly beneficial since excess fat around the trunk region of the body is associated with greater risks to health.

The precise mechanisms involved are unclear but are likely to involve calcium which is found in milk and dairy foods.

Type 2 diabetes

Studies suggest that regular consumption of low fat dairy products can help to reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes, which has been a longstanding problem in adults, and is becoming increasingly common in children and adolescents.

A recent study of more than 37,000 middle aged women found that those with the highest intakes of dairy had a reduced risk of type 2 diabetes.

The strongest association was found with low fat dairy products.

Similarly a study of men in 2005 found a reduced risk of type 2 diabetes with increased consumption of low fat dairy, interestingly, every extra portion of dairy consumed was associated with increasingly lower risk.

It is thought that this effect may be due to the combined effects of many beneficial nutrients found within dairy foods including calcium and magnesium, or the fact that dairy foods have a low glycaemic index, which helps to control blood sugar levels.

Cancer

There is considerable evidence to suggest that milk has a protective effect on risk of both colorectal and breast cancer with increased intakes.

A recent study of 45,000 Swedish men reported that men who drank 1.5 glasses of milk per day or more, had 35% lower risk of the disease than those who had a low milk intake of less than 2 glasses per week.

Additionally a study of over 40,000 Norwegian women found that those who drank milk as children and continued to do so as adults, had a lower risk of developing breast cancer.

Calcium and a naturally occurring fat in dairy products known as Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) have been suggested as protective components in colon cancer.

Health Benefits of Milk | Animal Product | Health Benefits

Health Benefits of Milk

Milk Health Benefits

Joined: 05/31/06
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Yeah, I strongly disagree and feel that drinking the milk of animals who are fed synthetic estrogens to keep them artificially lactating is really abnormal and unhealthy.....,,and would especially disagree with the consumption of low fat or fat free milk.......... And I've never had a weight problem. The dairy council is a powerful one and lots of people buy their propaganda- but it's easy to look at cultures who don't drink milk and debunk their lies. I don't care enough to debate it with you however as living the results and seeing the results with my three healthy kids is good enough for me. Everyone should drink whatever pleases them, the proof is in the pudding (hahahahaha, pudding Lol

smsturner's picture
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Seriously, one person and their kids doing ok without is not 'proof' of anything in the pudding. I don't eat mushrooms. And neither do my kids. Saying that we are all healthy doesn't prove that mushrooms are horrible for you. I'm glad you and yours are healthy. I just hate to see rumors and lies spread that hurt our dairy farmers, and apparently (according to the plethora of sites and studies out there), peoples' health.

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"smsturner" wrote:

Seriously, one person and their kids doing ok without is not 'proof' of anything in the pudding. I don't eat mushrooms. And neither do my kids. Saying that we are all healthy doesn't prove that mushrooms are horrible for you. I'm glad you and yours are healthy. I just hate to see rumors and lies spread that hurt our dairy farmers, and apparently (according to the plethora of sites and studies out there), peoples' health.

Ok!
you should do more research though! Smile

ClairesMommy's picture
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Tangent....I think the reason why I haven't lost a gosh darned pound since I stopped drinking milk is because I make it all up in cheese that's virtually lactose free. Smile Stupid cheese. Though, it is my most favorite food in the whole world and I will not give it up 100%. No way. Anything that's aged or hard is okay. Brie....beautiful. Gorgonzola, extra old cheddar, parm-reggiano, smoked gouda, stilton... I'm having a Homer Simpson drool moment right now. The only cheese I can't stand is Roquefort. Gag.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I hate milk. Not because I have anything against it's health benefits or anything (I really haven't researched it much) but just because I find it incredibly weird and gross. I do like cheese, but plain milk and even yogurt really kind of gross me out. We do keep it in the house though for cooking and because DH and T both eat it on their cereal. We wouldn't suffer too much if dairy doubled in price just because I think we go through less than 1 thing of milk per week. None of us drinks it by the glass except on the rare occasion when DH or T has it with a rich dessert (we also don't usually do dessert.)

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I find yogurt REALLY gross but I bake with it all the time! I hate eating it plain but I swap it out for butter or oil or applesauce in recipes and it makes everything fluffy and delicious.

I don't really drink milk either, but the kids do, and they love yogurt, cheese, etc. We all love ice cream.

ClairesMommy's picture
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"freddieflounder101" wrote:

I find yogurt REALLY gross but I bake with it all the time! I hate eating it plain but I swap it out for butter or oil or applesauce in recipes and it makes everything fluffy and delicious.

I don't really drink milk either, but the kids do, and they love yogurt, cheese, etc. We all love ice cream.

Sad I miss ice cream. Instant cramps. Oh well. I have found a really yummy lactose free vanilla yogurt, also comes plain, and I cook with it a lot.

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

Tangent....I think the reason why I haven't lost a gosh darned pound since I stopped drinking milk is because I make it all up in cheese that's virtually lactose free. Smile Stupid cheese. Though, it is my most favorite food in the whole world and I will not give it up 100%. No way. Anything that's aged or hard is okay. Brie....beautiful. Gorgonzola, extra old cheddar, parm-reggiano, smoked gouda, stilton... I'm having a Homer Simpson drool moment right now. The only cheese I can't stand is Roquefort. Gag.

It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume Smile As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine Smile

KimPossible's picture
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"Potter75" wrote:

It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume Smile As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine Smile

This is an honest question, how can the intolerance be that high without every individual encountering more lactose intolerant people than they do? I just feel like I would have to know more lactose intolerant people than i do if its really that high, unless its regional. And then if its regional that would say to me that the explanation is a lot more complicated than just 'people aren't supposed to drink milk"

I don't really see consuming milk as *abnormal*...its a naturally occurring substance that can be consumed...at least by enough people for me to not worry too much about it. People like to point out that we are the only animal that drinks another mammals milk and how thats weird. That never was very convincing to me...i simply think "Well duh, we are the only ones with the intelligence to figure out how to extract it and add it as a potential staple to our diet....no other animals bake bread either"

I mean, I'm not going to defend it as a miracle health food or anything....and the way it is produced in the modern age totally bothers me, much like the way our meat is produced.

But ultimately i just don't think drinking milk is all that freaky either.

Joined: 03/08/03
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I was just going to say the same thing Kim did. I know 4 people who are lactose intolerant, and I know a hell of a lot of people.

I agree with everything she said.

Joined: 05/31/06
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"KimPossible" wrote:

This is an honest question, how can the intolerance be that high without every individual encountering more lactose intolerant people than they do? I just feel like I would have to know more lactose intolerant people than i do if its really that high, unless its regional. And then if its regional that would say to me that the explanation is a lot more complicated than just 'people aren't supposed to drink milk"

I don't really see consuming milk as *abnormal*...its a naturally occurring substance that can be consumed...at least by enough people for me to not worry too much about it. People like to point out that we are the only animal that drinks another mammals milk and how thats weird. That never was very convincing to me...i simply think "Well duh, we are the only ones with the intelligence to figure out how to extract it and add it as a potential staple to our diet....no other animals bake bread either"

I mean, I'm not going to defend it as a miracle health food or anything....and the way it is produced in the modern age totally bothers me, much like the way our meat is produced.

But ultimately i just don't think drinking milk is all that freaky either.

Well, you don't live in asia or africa, so thats probably why Wink Amazingly, they live, and are actually very healthy, despite not drinking milk (don't tell the National Dairy Council this)!

Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[5] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from 5% in northern Europe through 71% for Sicily to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.[6]

The below is from a USA today article

[LEFT]If you're American or European it's hard to realize this, but being able to digest milk as an adult is one weird genetic adaptation.It's not normal. Somewhat less than 40% of people in the world retain the ability to digest lactose after childhood. The numbers are often given as close to 0% of Native Americans, 5% of Asians, 25% of African and Caribbean peoples, 50% of Mediterranean peoples and 90% of northern Europeans. Sweden has one of the world's highest percentages of lactase tolerant people.Being able to digest milk is so strange that scientists say we shouldn't really call lactose intolerance a disease, because that presumes it's abnormal. Instead, they call it lactase persistence, indicating what's really weird is the ability to continue to drink milk.There's been a lot of research over the past decade looking at the genetic mutation that allows this subset of humanity to stay milk drinkers into adulthood.A long-held theory was that the mutation showed up first in Northern Europe, where people got less vitamin D from the sun and therefore did better if they could also get the crucial hormone (it's not really a vitamin at all) from milk.But now a group at University College London has shown that the mutation actually appeared about 7,500 years ago in dairy farmers who lived in a region between the central Balkans and central Europe, in what was known as the Funnel Beaker culture.The paper was published this week in PLoS Computational Biology.The researchers used a computer to model the spread of lactase persistence, dairy farming, other food gathering practices and genes in Europe.Today, the highest proportion of people with lactase persistence live in Northwest Europe, especially the Netherlands, Ireland and Scandinavia. But the computer model suggests that dairy farmers carrying this gene variant probably originated in central Europe and then spread more widely and rapidly than non-dairying groups.Author Mark Thomas of University College London's dept of Genetics, Evolution and Environment says: "In Europe, a single genetic change...is strongly associated with lactase persistence and appears to have given people with it a big survival advantage."The European mutation is different from several lactase persistence genes associated with small populations of African peoples who historically have been cattle herders.Researchers at the University of Maryland identified one such mutation among Nilo-Saharan-speaking peoples in Kenya and Tanzania. That mutation seems to have arisen between 2,700 to 6,800 years ago. Two other mutations have been found among the Beja people of northeastern Sudan and tribes of the same language family in northern Kenya

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    [/LEFT]
    KimPossible's picture
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    Okay, admittedly i didn't go to the link, only read what you wrote and copied here...but here is what i would have to say, based on that.

    Well, you don't live in asia or africa, so thats probably why Amazingly, they live, and are actually very healthy, despite not drinking milk (don't tell the National Dairy Council this)!

    I didn't say it was necessary to drink milk to be healthy...and i don't believe that to be true.
    Edited for clarification: I don't believe it is necessary to drink milk to be healthy

    As to the rest of what you posted, that kind of supports the idea that its regional...and seemingly regional based on the genetic pool.

    So i say, 'meh'....everything we tolerate is a genetic adaptation at some point in history.

    Huge parts of Asia and Africa have thalasemia minor, a blood disorder...why? Its a genetic adaptation that helps to fight against Malaria. I have it, but it does me little good here in the US.

    So i guess all I'm saying is that for those who aren't intolerant, i don't really think it matters all that much. Yay for genetic adaptations. It would be bad to have too much, much like its bad too eat too much meat.

    I think its wrong for the NDC to push the way it does or manipulate facts and portray dairy to be something its not...none of this is a commentary on that, so i can see reasons to get the word out there that milk isn't as great as a lot of people think it is. But i don't see any reason to view it as anything worse than most other purely natural substances we consume that typically have pros and cons. What the NDC does is bad, i don't think the substance itself really is.

    Joined: 05/31/06
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    "KimPossible" wrote:

    Okay, admittedly i didn't go to the link, only read what you wrote and copied here...but here is what i would have to say, based on that.

    I didn't say it was necessary to drink milk to be healthy...and i don't believe that to be true.

    s.

    Then we agree.

    But I guess I go further in that I think that what the NDC does is very bad and actively detrimental to the health of Americans. I do think that the substance, in the quantities (and in particular the low fat and fat free versions, and especially in the factory farmed versions) is actively detrimental to the health of americans.

    GloriaInTX's picture
    Joined: 07/29/08
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    They can't put it on the internet unless it is true right? We are seriously supposed to believe that they are able to tell that someone was lactose intolerant 7,500 years ago?

    KimPossible's picture
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    "Potter75" wrote:

    Then we agree.

    But I guess I go further in that I think that what the NDC does is very bad and actively detrimental to the health of Americans. I do think that the substance, in the quantities (and in particular the low fat and fat free versions, and especially in the factory farmed versions) is actively detrimental to the health of americans.

    Naa, I probably agree with you on that too and wouldn't be able to argue against that suggestion. Maybe i'm not as passionate about it though, because I'm willing to subject my family to it. I guess I'm at a point with a lot of things where i feel like i can't fight them all. We do a good job with our meat sources, but doing that with dairy is a lot more difficult. For me its the kind of thing, given our lifestlye as a whole, if I'm blessed to be able to live into my 80s or 90s I'm likely look back on my life and not regret the decision to drink milk Smile

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    "GloriaInTX" wrote:

    They can't put it on the internet unless it is true right? We are seriously supposed to believe that they are able to tell that someone was lactose intolerant 7,500 years ago?

    *shrugs* I don't know. Read their research. I couldn't cross reference it with anything from the bible, but there seems to be a lot about it in these research papers.

    [h=2]Genetics[/h]It has been suggested that the Funnelbeaker culture was the origin of the gene allowing adults of Northern European descent to digest lactose. It was claimed that in the area formerly inhabited by this culture, prevalence of the gene is virtually universal.[2] A paper published in 2007 by Burger et al. [3] indicated that the genetic variant that causes lactase persistence in most Europeans (-13,910*T) was rare or absent in early farmers from central Europe. A study published by Yuval Itan and colleagues in 2010 [4] clearly shows this. A study published in 2009, also by Itan et al.,[5] suggests that the Linear Pottery culture (also known as Linearbandkeramik or LBK), which preceded the TRB culture by some 1,500 years, was the culture in which this trait started to co-evolve with the culture of dairying.
    Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in G?khem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T.[6]
    [h=2][edit]Footnotes[/h]

    • ^ Pre- & protohistorie van de lage landen, onder redactie van J.H.F. Bloemers & T. van Dorp 1991. De Haan/Open Universiteit. ISBN 90-269-4448-9, NUGI 644
    • ^ Milk allergy "caused by Stone Age gene" - Telegraph Media Group Limited, 27 February 2007 [1]
    • ^ J. Burger, M. Kirchner, B. Bramanti, W. Haak, M. G. Thomas (2007) Absence of the Lactase-Persistence associated allele in early Neolithic Europeans. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA 104: pp3736-3741,[2]
    • ^ Yuval Itan, Bryony L. Jones, Catherine J. E. Ingram, Dallas M. Swallow and Mark G. Thomas (2010), A worldwide correlation of lactase persistence phenotype and genotypes, BMC Evolutionary Biology 10, no. 36, pp. 1-11.
    • ^ Yuval Itan, Adam Powell, Mark A. Beaumont, Joachim Burger and Mark G. Thomas, The Origins of Lactase Persistence in Europe, PLoS Computation Biology, vol. 5, no 8 (2009): e1000491.
    • ^ Malmstrom, H. et al. 2009. Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians. Current Biology 19:1–5

    [h=2][edit]Sources[/h]

    Joined: 05/31/06
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    "KimPossible" wrote:

    Naa, I probably agree with you on that too and wouldn't be able to argue against that suggestion. Maybe i'm not as passionate about it though, because I'm willing to subject my family to it. I guess I'm at a point with a lot of things where i feel like i can't fight them all. We do a good job with our meat sources, but doing that with dairy is a lot more difficult. For me its the kind of thing, given our lifestlye as a whole, if I'm blessed to be able to live into my 80s or 90s I'm likely look back on my life and not regret the decision to drink milk Smile

    I hear you. We all take our poison somewhere, I know that Grey Goose Martini I had last night before the show wasn't the healthiest option :). I just can't get over how many people buy the milk lie hook line and sinker, and don't even try to moderate it or go for healthier options or try to find local or full fat options, which could make a big difference in their health.

    *off of soapbox*

    smsturner's picture
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    "Potter75" wrote:

    It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume Smile As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine Smile

    That is high. It's closer to 60%.
    Interestingly enough it's an evolution thing. Countries that have been herders that choose to drink milk have developed the ability to digest it. Like european people, and their descendants.

    lactose intolerance and dairy herding

    "Potter75" wrote:

    Well, you don't live in asia or africa, so thats probably why Wink Amazingly, they live, and are actually very healthy, despite not drinking milk (don't tell the National Dairy Council this)!

    Did you know that the maasai people in africa drink the cattle milk AND their blood? They definitely drink milk in some countries out there.

    Oh, and you're totally right, the people of Africa and lots of Asia are totally known for their super healthiness and their diet.

    GloriaInTX's picture
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    "Potter75" wrote:

    *shrugs* I don't know. Read their research. I couldn't cross reference it with anything from the bible, but there seems to be a lot about it in these research papers.

    Ha Ha ya that would be hard to do, since according to the Bible people have only existed for 6,000 years.

    Pretty scientific basing a whole theory like this on the ancient DNA of 3 individuals in Sweden.

    Joined: 05/31/06
    Posts: 4780

    Nothing personal Susan, while those links you provided were super well written, I don't believe you have done half of the research on the subject that I have, and I think that were we to compare diets and relative health we would find that we have drastically different lifestyles, so I'm just not compelled to debate this with you, especially given the snark you are already bringing into your reply.

    They just published the list of the worlds healthiest nations a few weeks ago. Japan won, again. Very low dairy consumption, interestingly.

    Joined: 05/31/06
    Posts: 4780

    "GloriaInTX" wrote:

    Ha Ha ya that would be hard to do, since according to the Bible people have only existed for 6,000 years.

    Pretty scientific basing a whole theory like this on the ancient DNA of 3 individuals in Sweden.

    Yes........that was my point. My point was that actual science doesn't mean much to someone who believes that Smile

    Spacers's picture
    Joined: 12/29/03
    Posts: 4104

    "Potter75" wrote:

    I couldn't cross reference it with anything from the bible, but there seems to be a lot about it in these research papers.

    Oh dear god I just snorted iced tea out my nose laughing at this. That hurts. So glad to have you back & love the new avatar. Smile

    smsturner's picture
    Joined: 05/11/09
    Posts: 1303

    "Potter75" wrote:

    Nothing personal Susan, while those links you provided were super well written, I don't believe you have done half of the research on the subject that I have, and I think that were we to compare diets and relative health we would find that we have drastically different lifestyles, so I'm just not compelled to debate this with you, especially given the snark you are already bringing into your reply.

    They just published the list of the worlds healthiest nations a few weeks ago. Japan won, again. Very low dairy consumption, interestingly.

    You can believe what you want to, seriously. But you not believing does not make the research irrelevant. And it certainly doesn't sway me on the argument. I'm sorry you think I'm ignorant on the subject just because I don't happen to think you are right. I have actually done research even if it doesn't make me agree with you.

    If you choose to keep milk out of you home super for you! I'm glad you and yours are healthy. But no need to hurt the country's dairy farmers wih rumors that aren't true.

    I'm not saying milk is insanely important for people to be healthy. I'm not saying it's a necessary food. And I'm certainly not saying that you can't be super healthy without it. I'm just saying it's not the evil devil you make it out to be. It causes breast cancer and obesity as much as immunizations cause autism.

    And Japan is a definite exception when we are talking about nutrition in africa and asia. I think we can agree that most countries do not get the same access as they do.

    ClairesMommy's picture
    Joined: 08/15/06
    Posts: 2299

    "Potter75" wrote:

    It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume Smile As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine Smile

    Have not tried but will since coconut milk in ice cream could not be a better combination, IMO.

    While it's only been a few months since I was diagnosed as LI (and I did the whole fasting serum blood test and failed miserably) I have likely been so to some degree my entire life. I remember getting cramps and stomach upset from time to time, esp after drinking a glass of milk with no food or eating ice cream, but it was sporadic at best so hard to connect the dots. Then the bottom fell out last year and I suffered with terrible cramps and bouts of chronic diarrhea for about 9 months until I got tested. Lightbulb moment, and I felt so dumb for not making the connection before. And, I was a dairy addict. I don't drink milk anymore, or even Lactaid straight up because I hate the taste of Lactaid - too sweet - and I feel way better for it.

    We also think Ben is LI as well, since he's been regurgitating his whole life. He has yet to be tested, but he drinks Lactaid and seems better on that. We might end up just eliminating dairy altogether for him (and probably for me but I'll miss cheese). He can get calcium and vit D from other sources. I don't think drinking milk is weird from a face value kind of perspective, but if I start thinking about the whole cows drink cows' milk and humans drink humans' milk POV yeah it skeeves me a bit.

    In Canada dairy cows can't be fed artificial hormones to increase milk production, and if dairy cows need antibiotics for any reason the milk produced while on antibiotics (and for a period of time after, I think) must be discarded. So I'm not too concerned about there being junk in the milk or dairy products. I found a bunch of interesting info on the CFIA website some time ago while looking into beef recalls.

    wlillie's picture
    Joined: 09/17/07
    Posts: 1796

    I thought the law was that the government paid the dairy farmers to make the milk more reasonable. I wouldn't mind paying double per gallon if that was the case. Then supply and demand could level out and maybe all those kids running around with obesity problems will get less whole milk, ice cream, cheese, and chocolate. We do drink a gallon of skim and a gallon of 2% between cereal and cooking a week between the three food eaters. And I do love yogurt, chocolate, cheese and ice cream. But it would make it easier to eat healthier if they were more expensive.

    Joined: 03/14/09
    Posts: 624

    N/M

    Joined: 03/08/03
    Posts: 3256

    Canada has much better systems in place for milk...here in the U.S. you can't even trust the labeling that says no hormones or antibiotics. It's not well regulated. Same for organic food

    Rivergallery's picture
    Joined: 05/23/03
    Posts: 1301

    I don't drink milk but even vegan families I think would be effected and here is why ----
    Stores wouldn't just raise dairy products, I think they would raise food across the board to cover the costs of milk, so that dairy products are still sellable.

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