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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Tangent....I think the reason why I haven't lost a gosh darned pound since I stopped drinking milk is because I make it all up in cheese that's virtually lactose free. Stupid cheese. Though, it is my most favorite food in the whole world and I will not give it up 100%. No way. Anything that's aged or hard is okay. Brie....beautiful. Gorgonzola, extra old cheddar, parm-reggiano, smoked gouda, stilton... I'm having a Homer Simpson drool moment right now. The only cheese I can't stand is Roquefort. Gag.
    It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine

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    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    It is hilarious to me that upwards of 75% of the WORLDS population is lactose intolerant yet people argue that milk is some perfectly normal food for humans to consume As to missing ice cream have you tried the So Delicious coconut milk ice creams? Divine
    This is an honest question, how can the intolerance be that high without every individual encountering more lactose intolerant people than they do? I just feel like I would have to know more lactose intolerant people than i do if its really that high, unless its regional. And then if its regional that would say to me that the explanation is a lot more complicated than just 'people aren't supposed to drink milk"

    I don't really see consuming milk as *abnormal*...its a naturally occurring substance that can be consumed...at least by enough people for me to not worry too much about it. People like to point out that we are the only animal that drinks another mammals milk and how thats weird. That never was very convincing to me...i simply think "Well duh, we are the only ones with the intelligence to figure out how to extract it and add it as a potential staple to our diet....no other animals bake bread either"

    I mean, I'm not going to defend it as a miracle health food or anything....and the way it is produced in the modern age totally bothers me, much like the way our meat is produced.

    But ultimately i just don't think drinking milk is all that freaky either.
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  3. #33
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    I was just going to say the same thing Kim did. I know 4 people who are lactose intolerant, and I know a hell of a lot of people.

    I agree with everything she said.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    This is an honest question, how can the intolerance be that high without every individual encountering more lactose intolerant people than they do? I just feel like I would have to know more lactose intolerant people than i do if its really that high, unless its regional. And then if its regional that would say to me that the explanation is a lot more complicated than just 'people aren't supposed to drink milk"

    I don't really see consuming milk as *abnormal*...its a naturally occurring substance that can be consumed...at least by enough people for me to not worry too much about it. People like to point out that we are the only animal that drinks another mammals milk and how thats weird. That never was very convincing to me...i simply think "Well duh, we are the only ones with the intelligence to figure out how to extract it and add it as a potential staple to our diet....no other animals bake bread either"

    I mean, I'm not going to defend it as a miracle health food or anything....and the way it is produced in the modern age totally bothers me, much like the way our meat is produced.

    But ultimately i just don't think drinking milk is all that freaky either.
    Well, you don't live in asia or africa, so thats probably why Amazingly, they live, and are actually very healthy, despite not drinking milk (don't tell the National Dairy Council this)!

    Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[5] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from 5% in northern Europe through 71% for Sicily to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.[6]


    The below is from a USA today article
    If you're American or European it's hard to realize this, but being able to digest milk as an adult is one weird genetic adaptation.It's not normal. Somewhat less than 40% of people in the world retain the ability to digest lactose after childhood. The numbers are often given as close to 0% of Native Americans, 5% of Asians, 25% of African and Caribbean peoples, 50% of Mediterranean peoples and 90% of northern Europeans. Sweden has one of the world's highest percentages of lactase tolerant people.Being able to digest milk is so strange that scientists say we shouldn't really call lactose intolerance a disease, because that presumes it's abnormal. Instead, they call it lactase persistence, indicating what's really weird is the ability to continue to drink milk.There's been a lot of research over the past decade looking at the genetic mutation that allows this subset of humanity to stay milk drinkers into adulthood.A long-held theory was that the mutation showed up first in Northern Europe, where people got less vitamin D from the sun and therefore did better if they could also get the crucial hormone (it's not really a vitamin at all) from milk.But now a group at University College London has shown that the mutation actually appeared about 7,500 years ago in dairy farmers who lived in a region between the central Balkans and central Europe, in what was known as the Funnel Beaker culture.The paper was published this week in PLoS Computational Biology.The researchers used a computer to model the spread of lactase persistence, dairy farming, other food gathering practices and genes in Europe.Today, the highest proportion of people with lactase persistence live in Northwest Europe, especially the Netherlands, Ireland and Scandinavia. But the computer model suggests that dairy farmers carrying this gene variant probably originated in central Europe and then spread more widely and rapidly than non-dairying groups.Author Mark Thomas of University College London's dept of Genetics, Evolution and Environment says: "In Europe, a single genetic change...is strongly associated with lactase persistence and appears to have given people with it a big survival advantage."The European mutation is different from several lactase persistence genes associated with small populations of African peoples who historically have been cattle herders.Researchers at the University of Maryland identified one such mutation among Nilo-Saharan-speaking peoples in Kenya and Tanzania. That mutation seems to have arisen between 2,700 to 6,800 years ago. Two other mutations have been found among the Beja people of northeastern Sudan and tribes of the same language family in northern Kenya
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  5. #35
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    Okay, admittedly i didn't go to the link, only read what you wrote and copied here...but here is what i would have to say, based on that.

    Well, you don't live in asia or africa, so thats probably why Amazingly, they live, and are actually very healthy, despite not drinking milk (don't tell the National Dairy Council this)!
    I didn't say it was necessary to drink milk to be healthy...and i don't believe that to be true.
    Edited for clarification: I don't believe it is necessary to drink milk to be healthy

    As to the rest of what you posted, that kind of supports the idea that its regional...and seemingly regional based on the genetic pool.

    So i say, 'meh'....everything we tolerate is a genetic adaptation at some point in history.

    Huge parts of Asia and Africa have thalasemia minor, a blood disorder...why? Its a genetic adaptation that helps to fight against Malaria. I have it, but it does me little good here in the US.

    So i guess all I'm saying is that for those who aren't intolerant, i don't really think it matters all that much. Yay for genetic adaptations. It would be bad to have too much, much like its bad too eat too much meat.

    I think its wrong for the NDC to push the way it does or manipulate facts and portray dairy to be something its not...none of this is a commentary on that, so i can see reasons to get the word out there that milk isn't as great as a lot of people think it is. But i don't see any reason to view it as anything worse than most other purely natural substances we consume that typically have pros and cons. What the NDC does is bad, i don't think the substance itself really is.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 01-04-2013 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Okay, admittedly i didn't go to the link, only read what you wrote and copied here...but here is what i would have to say, based on that.



    I didn't say it was necessary to drink milk to be healthy...and i don't believe that to be true.

    s.
    Then we agree.

    But I guess I go further in that I think that what the NDC does is very bad and actively detrimental to the health of Americans. I do think that the substance, in the quantities (and in particular the low fat and fat free versions, and especially in the factory farmed versions) is actively detrimental to the health of americans.

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    They can't put it on the internet unless it is true right? We are seriously supposed to believe that they are able to tell that someone was lactose intolerant 7,500 years ago?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Then we agree.

    But I guess I go further in that I think that what the NDC does is very bad and actively detrimental to the health of Americans. I do think that the substance, in the quantities (and in particular the low fat and fat free versions, and especially in the factory farmed versions) is actively detrimental to the health of americans.
    Naa, I probably agree with you on that too and wouldn't be able to argue against that suggestion. Maybe i'm not as passionate about it though, because I'm willing to subject my family to it. I guess I'm at a point with a lot of things where i feel like i can't fight them all. We do a good job with our meat sources, but doing that with dairy is a lot more difficult. For me its the kind of thing, given our lifestlye as a whole, if I'm blessed to be able to live into my 80s or 90s I'm likely look back on my life and not regret the decision to drink milk

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    They can't put it on the internet unless it is true right? We are seriously supposed to believe that they are able to tell that someone was lactose intolerant 7,500 years ago?

    *shrugs* I don't know. Read their research. I couldn't cross reference it with anything from the bible, but there seems to be a lot about it in these research papers.

    Genetics

    It has been suggested that the Funnelbeaker culture was the origin of the gene allowing adults of Northern European descent to digest lactose. It was claimed that in the area formerly inhabited by this culture, prevalence of the gene is virtually universal.[2] A paper published in 2007 by Burger et al. [3] indicated that the genetic variant that causes lactase persistence in most Europeans (-13,910*T) was rare or absent in early farmers from central Europe. A study published by Yuval Itan and colleagues in 2010 [4] clearly shows this. A study published in 2009, also by Itan et al.,[5] suggests that the Linear Pottery culture (also known as Linearbandkeramik or LBK), which preceded the TRB culture by some 1,500 years, was the culture in which this trait started to co-evolve with the culture of dairying.
    Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in G?khem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T.[6]
    [edit]Footnotes

    • ^ Pre- & protohistorie van de lage landen, onder redactie van J.H.F. Bloemers & T. van Dorp 1991. De Haan/Open Universiteit. ISBN 90-269-4448-9, NUGI 644
    • ^ Milk allergy "caused by Stone Age gene" - Telegraph Media Group Limited, 27 February 2007 [1]
    • ^ J. Burger, M. Kirchner, B. Bramanti, W. Haak, M. G. Thomas (2007) Absence of the Lactase-Persistence associated allele in early Neolithic Europeans. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA 104: pp3736-3741,[2]
    • ^ Yuval Itan, Bryony L. Jones, Catherine J. E. Ingram, Dallas M. Swallow and Mark G. Thomas (2010), A worldwide correlation of lactase persistence phenotype and genotypes, BMC Evolutionary Biology 10, no. 36, pp. 1-11.
    • ^ Yuval Itan, Adam Powell, Mark A. Beaumont, Joachim Burger and Mark G. Thomas, The Origins of Lactase Persistence in Europe, PLoS Computation Biology, vol. 5, no 8 (2009): e1000491.
    • ^ Malmstrom, H. et al. 2009. Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians. Current Biology 19:1–5
    [edit]Sources


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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Naa, I probably agree with you on that too and wouldn't be able to argue against that suggestion. Maybe i'm not as passionate about it though, because I'm willing to subject my family to it. I guess I'm at a point with a lot of things where i feel like i can't fight them all. We do a good job with our meat sources, but doing that with dairy is a lot more difficult. For me its the kind of thing, given our lifestlye as a whole, if I'm blessed to be able to live into my 80s or 90s I'm likely look back on my life and not regret the decision to drink milk
    I hear you. We all take our poison somewhere, I know that Grey Goose Martini I had last night before the show wasn't the healthiest option . I just can't get over how many people buy the milk lie hook line and sinker, and don't even try to moderate it or go for healthier options or try to find local or full fat options, which could make a big difference in their health.

    *off of soapbox*
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