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  1. #21
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I don't really think that would work out. Muslim countries are still enforcing those kinds of laws just like the Taliban is trying to do in Afghanistan. That is why they are stoning gay people and trying to kill teenage girls that want to go to school. The laws enforced out of the New Testament are not only good for Christians they are good for society.
    Can you give some examples of some laws from the NT that a) are specific to Christianity (in other words, if the NT says "Don't murder" that doesn't count because most human societies have laws against murder, theft, et cetera, regardless of their religion and b) are provably "good for society?" The only one I can think of off the top of my head is (sort of) the gay marriage thing, and I think it's very debatable whether banning gay marriage is provably good for society. But maybe there are some others that I just don't know.

    ETA: Oh yeah, and they have to be laws that you would want the government to enforce! So like, if Jesus encourages charity, I agree, that's great for society...but as a conservative I assume you don't want the government making you give your money to the poor....
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 10-17-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I don't really think that would work out. Muslim countries are still enforcing those kinds of laws just like the Taliban is trying to do in Afghanistan. That is why they are stoning gay people and trying to kill teenage girls that want to go to school. The laws enforced out of the New Testament are not only good for Christians they are good for society.
    Out of curiosity, why does it matter what the Muslims are or are not doing in other countries? I seriously can not fathom basing any opinion on how other people are not doing things right. If you have to defend a position of support for laws being made based on Christianity in the ""U.S." then the posts should be about Christianity and how to you that would work out. And once again your statements about what laws are based on compared with actions are also incorrect. There is not one Muslim country which bases its laws solely on religion. There are however laws which sometimes are in line with religion and like here too some which are not in one with religion. Whatever the taliban did is surely not in line with any real law or any one's religious beliefs. I am very unsure why you are fixated on Muslims though. We are in the U.S. and we have our own values and norms.
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  3. #23
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    There is not one Muslim country which bases its laws solely on religion. There are however laws which sometimes are in line with religion and like here too some which are not in one with religion. Whatever the taliban did is surely not in line with any real law or any one's religious beliefs. I am very unsure why you are fixated on Muslims though.
    Seriously? You need to look up Sharia law.

    Sharia, or Islamic law, influences the legal code in most Muslim countries. A movement to allow sharia to govern personal status law, a set of regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is even expanding into the West. "There are so many varying interpretations of what sharia actually means that in some places it can be incorporated into political systems relatively easily," says Steven A. Cook, CFR senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies. Sharia's influence on both personal status law and criminal law is highly controversial, though. Some interpretations are used to justify cruel punishments such as amputation and stoning as well as unequal treatment of women in inheritance, dress, and independence. The debate is growing as to whether sharia can coexist with secularism, democracy, or even modernity.
    Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations

    Countries using strict forms of Sharia Law include:

    Death for Blasphemy:

    1. Afghanistan
    2. Bahrain
    3. Iran
    4. Mauritania
    5. Oman
    6. Pakistan
    7. Yemen
    8. Saudi Arabia
    9. Gaza

    Imprisonment for Blasphemy:

    1. Algeria
    2. Bangladesh
    3. Egypt
    4. Iraq
    5. Kuwait
    6. Libya
    7. Malaysia
    8. Maldives
    9. Morocco
    10. Somalia
    11. Tunisia
    12. United Arab Emirates


    Nations that include some level of Sharia (leniant sentences for honour killings, ban on new churches, floggings, etc):


    1. Indonesia (Flogging, Caning; Sharia applied strictly in Aceh province)
    2. Turkey (Restrictions on alcohol)
    3. Brunei (Caning, Alcohol is illegal)
    4. Jordan (2 years or less for honour killings)
    5. Eritrea (Girls as young as 8 can be married, spousal rape is not recognized)
    6. Syria (1 year or less for honour killings)
    7. Djibouti (Sharia law regarding divorce)
    8. Chechnya (Modest dress enforced, Alcohol and gambling suppressed by local authorities)
    9. Niger (girls can be married off before they reach puberty)
    10. Nigeria (Sharia is enforced in the northern states)
    11. Kenya (Ad Hoc Sharia enforced in the east near the border with Somalia)
    12. Gambia (Sharia courts decide all family matters, including for non-Muslims)
    13. Qatar (public consumption is illegal during Ramadan, Alcohol heavily restricted, blood money acceptable punishment for murder, "kafala" law which is also shared by all Gulf states but Bahrain is technically slavery)
    14. Uganda (Kadhi Courts overseeing family and civil matters)
    What countries use Sharia Law
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    Gloria, these countries derive SOME laws from sharia and some from their own minds, very similar to what we do in the u.s. we do have laws which were religiously inspired. We are working hard at fixing the religious slants which are unfair, oppressive, and against our fundamental rights. Again there is not a single country who decides its laws solely on sharia law. Taliban are not even a breed of people and their actions are derived from no religion. and if one were to google the freakish laws based on christianity i am sure there woulds be some jaws dropping. However, because we are the u.s. these laws are being weeded out and done with because we are not those people who wrote them

    And by the way, For example, to prove my point: if in the counties ansd laws mentioned there was a country you claim to use only sharia law, then it would stare zero alcohol permitted instead of outling the time when it is impermissible. There is nothing to support your statement here.


    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Last edited by myyams; 10-17-2012 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Sorry for typos... Poor ipad skills
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    Gloria, these countries derive SOME laws from sharia and some from their own minds, very similar to what we do in the u.s. we do have laws which were religiously inspired. We are working hard at fixing the religious slants which are unfair, oppressive, and against our fundamental rights. Again there is not a single country who decides its laws solely on sharia law. Taliban are not even a breed of people and their actions are derived from no religion. and if one were to google the freakish laws based on christianity i am sure there woulds be some jaws dropping. However, because we are the u.s. these laws are being weeded out and done with because we are not those people who wrote them
    I'm sorry but you are mistaken. There may be some interpretation involved but Sharia IS their law.

    In those Muslim countries where Islam is the official religion listed in the constitution, sharia is declared to be a source, or the source, of the laws. Examples include Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates, where the governments derive their legitimacy from Islam. In Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and Iraq, among others, it is also forbidden to enact legislation that is antithetical to Islam. Saudi Arabia employs one of the strictest interpretations of sharia. Women are not allowed to drive, are under the guardianship of male relatives at all times, and must be completely covered in public. Elsewhere, governments are much more lenient, as in the United Arab Emirates, where alcohol is tolerated. Non-Muslims are not expected to obey sharia and in most countries, they are the jurisdiction of special committees and adjunct courts under the control of the government.
    Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations
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    Let me put in an easier way. There is no refuting across the globe that it is a requirement in Islam for women to cover their hair. It is not the law in Saudi Arabia for women to cover their hair; only an abaya is required and it does not even have to be black. Some people cover and some do not. People's actions or lack of actns does not change the law. People's adhereance to this shari' ruling does not change ethe fact of its requirement in islam,; but, saudi arabia, one of the strictest countries in the world does not require covering all the time. People are mixed up in public and no one jnows who is who.

    Do you really need a clearer example? So many christians are doing sins against christianity but it does not mean that is what christianity says to do. Every single group of people i know fall into this because we are all human. But actons of people does not rewrite religion.


    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I'm sorry but you are mistaken. There may be some interpretation involved but Sharia IS their law.



    Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations
    Last edited by myyams; 10-17-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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    And gloria, the point to you is that this debate is ot about Islam. I can not understand why you try to make it so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    Let me put in an easier way. There is no refuting across the globe that it is a requirement in Islam for women to cover their hair. It is not the law in Saudi Arabia for women to cover their hair; only an abaya is required and it does not even have to be black. Some people cover and some do not. People's actions or lack of actns does not change the law. People's adhereance to this shari' ruling does not change ethe fact of its requirement in islam,; but, saudi arabia, one of the strictest countries in the world does not require covering all the time. People are mixed up in public and no one jnows who is who.

    Do you really need a clearer example? So many christians are doing sins against christianity but it does not mean that is what christianity says to do. Every single group of people i know fall into this because we are all human. But actons of people does not rewrite religion.
    Just because they have chosen not to enforce it doesn't mean that is not the law. At any time they could decide to enforce that differently. Their whole system is based on Sharia, so if they got in a judge that decided to interpret that more strictly they could start punishing women for not covering correctly.

    Legal system of Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    And gloria, the point to you is that this debate is ot about Islam. I can not understand why you try to make it so?
    LOL you are making it so just as much as I am. I am simply posting in response to your statements.
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    Saudi women cover as a matter of national pride. All women are not required to cover. Some of their laws are inspired by religion and some not. I refuse to argue this further because your intense obsession with things other than Christianity can not be satisfied. However, the facts which we all have been presenting about Christianity have not even been addressed by you for some reason, but yet millions of Ilsamic queries are.

    We live in the u.s and the very last thing i can imagine happening is for a christian extremist to make laws for everyone here. You cant even get a handful of christians together and everyone agree on interpretation, book, branch, or any other principle. It is a terrible idea to try to rule a country like ours on religion. Besides lol according to you it is just the nt that is important and yet there are like no laws in there except like turn the other cheek or let the one who is innocent cast the first stone. Tese are true recipes for civil war. So what would be the penalty system, forgiveness? In our soceity?
    Aisha

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