The Decline of Traditional Marriage (Abort. mentioned) - Page 2
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Thread: The Decline of Traditional Marriage (Abort. mentioned)

  1. #11
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    The problem with #3 is, whose morality are we judging it all with? Yours? Mine? Alissa's? One's own morality is for every person to decide for himself.
    IMO that is the problem. Morality shouldn't be based on what a person decides for him/herself it should come from God. If each person decides their own morality than nothing is sacred, which is why moral values in this country are on the decline. If according to my morality divorce/cheating/swinging is all ok then it can only go downhill from there because who is going to stand up and say those things are wrong? If things are only right or wrong based on the perception of the person doing the action nothing will ever be wrong.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    As far as divorce I think it is interesting that the rate of divorce for Christians correlates not just with being a Christian, but on how dedicated they are and how much they actually attend church services. It is easy to say you are a Christian but those who actually practice their beliefs are less likely to divorce.
    Or you could it around, to what I think is the real truth: people who do happen to get divorced for whatever reason, even for some very good reasons like spousal abuse, stop going to church because they no longer feel welcomed. I certainly seen that a number of times IRL.
    And a different researcher, one who has written dozens of books about faith & family, found that the difference between those who claim to be atheist or agnostic (30%) and those who claim to be born-again christian (32% aggregate of evangelical & non-evangelical) is just 2% which is within the 3% margin of error for the study. So atheists are either less likely, or equally likely, to divorce as born-again christians.
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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    IMO that is the problem. Morality shouldn't be based on what a person decides for him/herself it should come from God. If each person decides their own morality than nothing is sacred, which is why moral values in this country are on the decline. If according to my morality divorce/cheating/swinging is all ok then it can only go downhill from there because who is going to stand up and say those things are wrong? If things are only right or wrong based on the perception of the person doing the action nothing will ever be wrong.
    So anyone who doesn't believe in your god is immoral? Why is society going to go downhill if consenting adults choose to allow swinging into their marriage or choose to divorce if they can't make it work? If it's OK with both of them, then what does it matter to you? The point should not to be to adhere to someone else's sense of right & wrong, but to your own. If your sense of right & wrong comes from your god, good for you. Mine does not and I would not want to live my life as you choose to, and I think I'm a pretty moral person even so because I do adhere to my set of morals. And that's why I didn't date anyone who identified as a christian, because that's not where my morality lies.
    Last edited by Spacers; 01-27-2014 at 05:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    IMO that is the problem. Morality shouldn't be based on what a person decides for him/herself it should come from God. If each person decides their own morality than nothing is sacred, which is why moral values in this country are on the decline. If according to my morality divorce/cheating/swinging is all ok then it can only go downhill from there because who is going to stand up and say those things are wrong? If things are only right or wrong based on the perception of the person doing the action nothing will ever be wrong.
    So we should live in a country with morality dictated by one specific religion? (And that should be yours, I assume.)

    Yikes. I thought that was one of the great things about America, that we DON'T think everyone should follow one religion.
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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    I do think it's interesting that atheist/agnostics have the lowest rates of divorce, although I don't necessarily think that it's because we're more "moral" than anyone else. Incidentally, I don't think that divorce is "immoral" or that not getting married is "immoral" either - but as I stated above I do think that marriage or at least a long term committed partner is, for most people, probably the best case scenario for having a happy and stable (and financially stable) life. That doesn't mean that you can't have a happy and stable life without it, just that it seems to me to be the model that works for the most amount of people, assuming that they find the right partner.

    I can't remember where, but I read an article somewhere about how Christian institutions actually undermine the likelihood of long term success in marriage. It was stuff like encouraging people to marry younger and have more kids and more kids younger which carries a higher incidence of divorce.

    I kind of assume that atheists are also less likely to get married in the first place (we're not opposed to living together after all) so if we make it through the trial run of living together and decide to get married, it must be legit. We're also much less likely to be opposed to birth control, which probably means that our pregnancies are more often planned.

    I'm obviously uninterested in a country-wide definition of morality that comes specifically from Gloria's (or any person's) interpretation of God. I like my religious freedom too much for all of that.
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    So we should live in a country with morality dictated by one specific religion? (And that should be yours, I assume.)

    Yikes. I thought that was one of the great things about America, that we DON'T think everyone should follow one religion.
    The question was asked why I think traditional marriage is declining. YES I absolutely think that Christianity plays a big part in morality and whether people stay married or not. What does that have to do with the country being dictated by one specific religion? A large majority of Americans identify as Christian so of course that plays a part in the morals of this country, and if you don't think that Christianity played a part in the history of ideals of this country you are deluding yourself. Christianity isn't the ONLY way to develop morals, but it did influence how morals developed in this country. And yes IMO the further Americans drift away from Christianity the more moral standards in this country will decrease. You don't have to agree with me but that is absolutely what I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    The question was asked why I think traditional marriage is declining. YES I absolutely think that Christianity plays a big part in morality and whether people stay married or not. What does that have to do with the country being dictated by one specific religion? A large majority of Americans identify as Christian so of course that plays a part in the morals of this country, and if you don't think that Christianity played a part in the history of ideals of this country you are deluding yourself. Christianity isn't the ONLY way to develop morals, but it did influence how morals developed in this country. And yes IMO the further Americans drift away from Christianity the more moral standards in this country will decrease. You don't have to agree with me but that is absolutely what I believe.
    I don't know where you got ALL of that from my statement. I was responding to this:

    Morality shouldn't be based on what a person decides for him/herself it should come from God.
    I know a whole lot of Christians who don't actually share your morality about many issues, so it's a lot more complex than you say.

    I didn't say Christianity has no influence or no history or no followers. I don't know why you think I did.
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    So anyone who doesn't believe in your god is immoral? Why is society going to go downhill if consenting adults choose to allow swinging into their marriage or choose to divorce if they can't make it work? If it's OK with both of them, then what does it matter to you? The point should not to be to adhere to someone else's sense of right & wrong, but to your own. If your sense of right & wrong comes from your god, good for you. Mine does not and I would not want to live my life as you choose to, and I think I'm a pretty moral person even so because I do adhere to my set of morals. And that's why I didn't date anyone who identified as a christian, because that's not where my morality lies.
    If you don't think those things are immoral than good for you. If morality is based on each person than we really shouldn't be surprised when things go downhill, because there is no right and wrong, just whatever feels good to you.
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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    In fairness, I don't know how many people define "morality" as "whatever feels good." Obviously you define it as what you interpret God wants. I personally interpret it on a system that is more like "Who does this help?" (helping is often, but not always, moral) and "Who does this hurt?" (hurting is often, but not always, immoral.) I think most systems of morality derive from something more than just "if it feels good do it." Now, people don't always do what even they believe is the moral thing to do. Witness all of the Christians in jail. But just because you do the wrong thing doesn't mean that you don't think it's wrong. People are complicated like that.
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    This is not a debate I really want to get tied up in, but I did want to through something out there about the marriage/devorce rates amung Athiests/Christians.

    A large amount of Athiests do not get married, they just live together or only get married after living together for many years. If you were to take the piece of paper out of the equation and just determine the amount of stable long term relationships I think you would find much different statistics.

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