DOMA and Prop 8 - Page 16
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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #151
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    I know this is where this debate leads but without government do you abolish marriage? Who grants it? What does it mean? And don't say religious groups because that leaves out all the atheists who want to be married.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Because you can think "Oh that really would work better if it was different", and not care about it enough to try to change it. Right now, it is in my best interest to be legally married.

    It would be a little bit like a job situation. You could think to yourself that it was a bad work situation, but going yourself and quitting would not change things and would hurt you. It would take the entire place banning together and going on a strike before change happened. No one in the whole wide world cares if I am married or not (with the exception of DH, family, and friends, but you know what I mean). My deciding not to get married or to get divorced is not going to change marriage at all. It would take a large amount of people banning together to make change happen. It is not a cause that I care so deeply about that I am going to try to change the world all on my own.
    Exactly. Thank you for admitting it. You admit that you are only "against" it as far as your own personal interests go. You are "against" it in theory but not at all in reality- as you truly only want what is best for YOU. That's all gay people are asking for as well. Equal access to choose what's best for THEM too.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Exactly. Thank you for admitting it. You admit that you are only "against" it as far as your own personal interests go. You are "against" it in theory but not at all in reality- as you truly only want what is best for YOU. That's all gay people are asking for as well. Equal access to choose what's best for THEM too.
    Right.

    I get that you're already married and that when you got married you weren't thinking about those things.

    But now you have it, and you recognize the benefits, and it is bizarre to me that the solution isn't to offer this to gay people but to take it away from the rest of us. It reminds me of the Kurt Vonnegut Jr. short story in which everyone who wasn't disabled was weighed down with weights or given some terrible deformity or something to equalize everybody. Same idea.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I would yes. My not getting legally married would not change or solve anything. As I said before it is something I think ideally should be different. It is not a cause that I feel passionate about or would even think regularly about. There causes that I feel strong enough about that I have written my Govenor and senators over and vote about. This topic is not one of those issues. It is just a "in my dream world this is how it would be" type of situations.
    I still don't understand this.

    In our current world, there are three options:
    1. Only get a government marriage (i.e. get a marriage license but not get married in a church.)
    2. Only get a church marriage (i.e. get married in the church and not file a marriage license.)
    3. Get a church marriage and a government marriage (i.e. get married in a church and file a marriage license.)

    Your perfect world already exists, in that anyone who wants to can already opt for option 2. But you fully admit that if you had it to do over, you would still opt for option 3. So what are you saying, just that in your most perfect of worlds, you would take the choice away from the rest of us? Even though people already have the ability to choose option 2, and you yourself prefer option 3, you would still change it for the rest of us? It just does not make sense to me.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I still don't understand this.

    In our current world, there are three options:
    1. Only get a government marriage (i.e. get a marriage license but not get married in a church.)
    2. Only get a church marriage (i.e. get married in the church and not file a marriage license.)
    3. Get a church marriage and a government marriage (i.e. get married in a church and file a marriage license.)

    Your perfect world already exists, in that anyone who wants to can already opt for option 2. But you fully admit that if you had it to do over, you would still opt for option 3. So what are you saying, just that in your most perfect of worlds, you would take the choice away from the rest of us? Even though people already have the ability to choose option 2, and you yourself prefer option 3, you would still change it for the rest of us? It just does not make sense to me.
    This is something that I think most of us are just not going to see eye to eye on. The reality of the matter is that if I just got married in the church and not legally (No Pastor I know would be willing to do that anyway), the way things are currently no one would think we were married but just living together. It just is the way it is right now.

    Are all of you boycotting marriage because it is not offered to everyone? In your ideal world marriage would be different. So are you not going to get married because marriage is not perfect just the way it is?

    ~Bonita~

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    This is something that I think most of us are just not going to see eye to eye on. The reality of the matter is that if I just got married in the church and not legally (No Pastor I know would be willing to do that anyway), the way things are currently no one would think we were married but just living together. It just is the way it is right now.

    Are all of you boycotting marriage because it is not offered to everyone? In your ideal world marriage would be different. So are you not going to get married because marriage is not perfect just the way it is?
    Did your pastor a check to ensure that you mailed in your marriage certificate!?!?!? I don't believe that. You are telling me that people who attended your WEDDING would not think you were married? How many if them have ever seen your marriage certificate? Do you display it???? No ones ever asked to see mine as proof of my marriage being "real". You are just making stuff up here.

  7. #157
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    What good would it do to have a church wedding but then just not get the marriage licence and then hide the fact? Nothing would change. The only small impact (almost none) would be if I told people I was taking a stand against legal marriage and therefore not getting legally married.

    ~Bonita~

  8. #158
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    I was only partially lost up till this point, but now I'm totally lost. I give up. I can't follow this thread anymore. No offence to anyone, but my brain is hurting.

  9. #159
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    What good? You would be MARRIED! Before god and man! Bound for life to the person you love - isn't THaT the point?

    Im so confused. That's why I got married. Why did you get married?

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Did your pastor a check to ensure that you mailed in your marriage certificate!?!?!? I don't believe that. You are telling me that people who attended your WEDDING would not think you were married? How many if them have ever seen your marriage certificate? Do you display it???? No ones ever asked to see mine as proof of my marriage being "real". You are just making stuff up here.
    My brother is a minister and he did all the paperwork and mailed it in. I think that is kind of standard practice. I have needed my marriage certificate several times for legal paperwork. I have stated before that why should I not register my marriage? It's not my fight and I don't care enough about the issue to go out of my way. I'm not on a crusade for the government to get out of marriage or anything, I'm not really that involved in politics other than expressing my opinion and voting. That doesn't change the fact that I believe that the government should not be involved in marriage. It's not like that would be resolved overnight anyway or whether my marriage is registered or not is not going to make a whit of difference to whether that ever happens or not.

    P.S. If you take your husbands name a marriage certificate is required unless you go get a legal name change which is a much bigger hassle.
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