DOMA and Prop 8 - Page 17
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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    My brother is a minister and he did all the paperwork and mailed it in. I think that is kind of standard practice. I have needed my marriage certificate several times for legal paperwork. I have stated before that why should I not register my marriage? It's not my fight and I don't care enough about the issue to go out of my way. I'm not on a crusade for the government to get out of marriage or anything, I'm not really that involved in politics other than expressing my opinion and voting. That doesn't change the fact that I believe that the government should not be involved in marriage. It's not like that would be resolved overnight anyway or whether my marriage is registered or not is not going to make a whit of difference to whether that ever happens or not.

    P.S. If you take your husbands name a marriage certificate is required unless you go get a legal name change which is a much bigger hassle.
    Name changes, legal paperwork etc..... All valid reasons for why it is necessary for the government to be involved in marriage. How exactly do you envision all of that working again if the government ISN'T involved? Because I can't picture it.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    What good? You would be MARRIED! Before god and man! Bound for life to the person you love - isn't THaT the point?

    Im so confused. That's why I got married. Why did you get married?
    Let me clarify. I am talking about trying to make a stand or protest against marriage. Just me alone deciding to not get married would not accomplish anything towards changing marriage laws. My just deciding to not have a legal marriage would not change any rules or perceptions about marriage at all. It would not make a difference in the political scheme at all.

    I was not saying that my marriage would not matter. I was saying I would not be making some big political statement because no one cares what I think about marriage. I remember Angelina Jolie coming out and saying she would not get married until everyone had the same legal right to get married. Her saying that did not change things but it drew attention to the issue. An ordinary person saying the same thing (in reverse) would not have the same reaction. No one would care.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Let me clarify. I am talking about trying to make a stand or protest against marriage. Just me alone deciding to not get married would not accomplish anything towards changing marriage laws. My just deciding to not have a legal marriage would not change any rules or perceptions about marriage at all. It would not make a difference in the political scheme at all.I was not saying that my marriage would not matter. I was saying I would not be making some big political statement because no one cares what I think about marriage. I remember Angelina Jolie coming out and saying she would not get married until everyone had the same legal right to get married. Her saying that did not change things but it drew attention to the issue. An ordinary person saying the same thing (in reverse) would not have the same reaction. No one would care.
    But why does it matter what other people do? That's the part I don't get. You already have the choice for your own marriage, so....are you just saying that in your perfect world you would be able to take that choice away from the rest of us?
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    But why does it matter what other people do? That's the part I don't get. You already have the choice for your own marriage, so....are you just saying that in your perfect world you would be able to take that choice away from the rest of us?
    I am not fighting to change marriage. I would not vote or protest over this issue. It is just how it would be in my fairy land. I am not sure why that is threatening to anyone. Who cares what my ideal situation is. To reference another issue, there are people who in their ideal fairyland, no private citizens owned guns. That does not mean they would think that would ever happen or would fight to make it be that way. That does not mean they can not have the opinion that things would be better if no one had guns.

    To use the same illustration, they might have guns for protection because everyone else does, but would not feel that was necessary if no one had guns.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    But why does it matter what other people do? That's the part I don't get. You already have the choice for your own marriage, so....are you just saying that in your perfect world you would be able to take that choice away from the rest of us?
    This is the crux of it for me. We're not suggesting avoiding marriage to make a political statement. We're asking, if you think the government shouldn't be involved in marriage, why would you get it involved in yours, if you were getting married right now? There is no need to. You can be married in front of your church and family, everyone in your social circle would see you as married, and you wouldn't have government involvement.

    To be honest, none of our school paperwork ever involved our marriage certificate. So you could do everything as you do now, without the government....isn't that your dream scenario?

    I get not wanting a divorce, but if you had it to do RIGHT NOW, why would you still choose government marriage when you don't need it?

    I continue to think that you do want it, for the same reason the rest of us want it, for the same reason gay people want it.

    If you (collective you who are arguing for keeping the government out of marriage) truly thought this was the right way to do things, why not just do it? Why TAKE IT AWAY from the rest of us? We don't want it taken away, and gay people want it, so in what logical world is taking it away the right solution? It doesn't solve ANY of the problems except yours, and only yours, which is that you don't want gay people to get married for some reason I still don't really understand, as it doesn't actually affect you in any way or hurt anybody.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I am not fighting to change marriage. I would not vote or protest over this issue. It is just how it would be in my fairy land. I am not sure why that is threatening to anyone. Who cares what my ideal situation is. To reference another issue, there are people who in their ideal fairyland, no private citizens owned guns. That does not mean they would think that would ever happen or would fight to make it be that way. That does not mean they can not have the opinion that things would be better if no one had guns.

    To use the same illustration, they might have guns for protection because everyone else does, but would not feel that was necessary if no one had guns.
    I think that people who think private citizens shouldn't own guns do NOT own them themselves.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I am not fighting to change marriage. I would not vote or protest over this issue. It is just how it would be in my fairy land. I am not sure why that is threatening to anyone. Who cares what my ideal situation is. To reference another issue, there are people who in their ideal fairyland, no private citizens owned guns. That does not mean they would think that would ever happen or would fight to make it be that way. That does not mean they can not have the opinion that things would be better if no one had guns.

    To use the same illustration, they might have guns for protection because everyone else does, but would not feel that was necessary if no one had guns.
    But why would your fairy land include no choice for the rest of us? That's the part I'm stuck on. You have that choice right now, you choose not to take it, fine, but why are you fantasizing about a world where none of us have the choice?

    I fantasize about a world without guns because guns can easily be used to hurt more than just the owners of guns. I can't see how the same is true of other people's marriages.

    Another way the analogy does not fit is that I also choose not to have a gun or allow guns in my home. I would think it would be very strange of me to say that I wish no one was allowed to have guns, while being a gun owner myself.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Who has a MEAN fairy land? This is a bizarre debate. For real.



    still would like an answer on how you get legal things done with no government in marriage. Anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Another way the analogy does not fit is that I also choose not to have a gun or allow guns in my home. I would think it would be very strange of me to say that I wish no one was allowed to have guns, while being a gun owner myself.
    First, I am not sitting around fantasizing about how wonderful this would be. I rarely ever think about it.

    I think most people (even people that own guns), would say they wish there was no need for guns and in their ideal situation there would not be a need for guns. They might however feel that as long as there is a need for guns, that they need to have one.

    (I do not own a gun, nor do I have a desire to own a gun. This is just for illustration purposes.)

    ~Bonita~

  10. #170
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    Bonita, not trying to hound you to be a jerk, I just truly do not understand.You wish there was no need for a government marriage? I mean, you can say that there isn't a true need for it, but I certainly get that there are a lot of rights and whatnot that you forgo when you forgo the government marriage which is why people are fighting so hard to have it. So yeah, there is a "need" for it - but then if you got rid of the government marriage, how would you get those right otherwise? Like we talked about the need for a marriage for an easy name change. But how would the government be able to track who is married to who and allow the easy name change if you didn't register it with them somehow? Ditto for every right that you currently enjoy with your marriage.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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