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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #321
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Sorry, I just saw the back and forth on this one, and now that I have I have to admit that I'm not sure what to do with it. Gloria, just to be completely honest, it's hard not to come away with the impression that you have a serious problem with gay people when you are happy to put priority on maintaining "a definition" over the real impact of discriminatory laws on the lives of real families, compare them to muderers, et cetera. I'm not trying to "pile on" but I am trying to explain that that is the impression it gives. You may not care about what we think, and that is fine. But it's hard to think otherwise. Having said all that, I don't think it's totally appropriate to spend time debating Gloria personally. As we often say, debate the topic, not the person.
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    Then can someone advocating no government in marriage please answer the real question? In this new world, is there still marriage? What does it mean? And do you get to keep yours? Gay people clearly don't get to have it and I presume there is nothing for the atheists as well but no one will spell out the details or explain in what way it would make things better. What needs to change? What is wrong with marriage as it is now? How does the legalization of it make it a negative?
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  3. #323
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I'm not justifying it at all. I'm telling you that you are judging others and trying to ensure that laws discriminate against your fellow Americans and that I believe that that is a sin. If you didn't want to talk about sin well you oughtn't to have entered it into the debate, I guess. If you feel attacked by that so be it.
    In the article posted the author still said that homosexuality was a sin.. if I read it correctly.
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  4. #324
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Its cut and dried in the bible. All sins-equal. Very cut and dried.
    I am totally not getting it...You are saying Judging is a sin? In all cases we are never to judge right from wrong? And I brought up discernment... What is discernment? Is it a sin... or a good trait? Far as I read discernment is a gift.. and mentioned along side things like prophesy and speaking in tongues. Discerning is judging right from wrong, with wisdom.. It is the way one judges.. and what they judge that is important I think.. I do not see it wrong to judge in most cases... if you read the entire context where any judging is happening.. ETA--- Only place I can definitely see where we are not to judge is someones salvation.
    Also we ARE called to JUDGE other believers and steer them away from sin.. there is an entire context of how to address this with another believer.

    There are also a whole other set of contexts to what a church body needs to do with those who are living in sin... and another context as to what society should do about sin in general.


    I agree the Bible is pretty clear.. ALL sins are equal.. even our "GOOD" deeds are as menstrual rags to the LORD before we are saved (cleaned) from our sin.. ANY little blemish spoils the whole. That is why we all need Jesus, and why he died for every sin.. not just the ones we as a society deem bad.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  5. #325
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Sorry, I just saw the back and forth on this one, and now that I have I have to admit that I'm not sure what to do with it. Gloria, just to be completely honest, it's hard not to come away with the impression that you have a serious problem with gay people when you are happy to put priority on maintaining "a definition" over the real impact of discriminatory laws on the lives of real families, compare them to muderers, et cetera. I'm not trying to "pile on" but I am trying to explain that that is the impression it gives. You may not care about what we think, and that is fine. But it's hard to think otherwise. Having said all that, I don't think it's totally appropriate to spend time debating Gloria personally. As we often say, debate the topic, not the person.

    So just randomly calling me out in a post where I wasn't even part of the conversation and saying I hate homosexuals isn't against the rules? Good to know. Funny thing is she was agreeing that murder and all sin is the same. Pretty much what you are saying is that is ok because I deserved it, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    The good news is that it's also equal to judging, as God has clearly said that's for him alone to do. So the only upside is that we can then cast Gloria and others who judge and hate homosexuals into this same lot- as after all- all sins the same.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-14-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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  6. #326
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    I've always maintained that the bible says all sin is the same. Always. Which leaves me no other conclusion to draw but simple bigotry or homophobia when Christians are only lobbying to deny equal rights to gays. Not the obese (gluttony). Not other sins. Just this one. Because of homophobia.

  7. #327
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I've always maintained that the bible says all sin is the same. Always. Which leaves me no other conclusion to draw but simple bigotry or homophobia when Christians are only lobbying to deny equal rights to gays. Not the obese (gluttony). Not other sins. Just this one. Because of homophobia.
    Except it doesn't have anything to do with rights. It is only about the government stepping in and changing the definition of marriage from what Jesus states in that same Bible. That is ALL I care about. How is it my fault that the government decided to tie rights to marriage?
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  8. #328
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    It has everything to do with equal rights. Everything. You are trying to keep gay people from having the right to marry and enjoy the same government marriage you didn't have to have but WANTED. If gay people get the right to marry MY marriage won't change one lick. Not a bit. We will still be the exact same couple with the exact same great marriage which means the exact same thing as it did when we Chose to wed.

  9. #329
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Ok... let's take gluttony -
    Are we being asked to promote gluttony? Or financially support it? Or even say it is right and good to love "food"? In some ways I think one could make the case.. as in big business and advertising, federal subsidize for corn for corn syrup etc.. .. like Supersize ME points out. However, we are allowed to choose to not eat there, and I do see lots of protesting against gluttony.. families not eating out, and promoting healthier lifestyles...And I see lots of outrage in my area anyway against the processed foods etc.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    It has everything to do with equal rights. Everything. You are trying to keep gay people from having the right to marry and enjoy the same government marriage you didn't have to have but WANTED. If gay people get the right to marry MY marriage won't change one lick. Not a bit. We will still be the exact same couple with the exact same great marriage which means the exact same thing as it did when we Chose to wed.
    However.. we are not just being asked to allow a sin.. we are being asked to support it financially and in our words.. and are labeled if we do not agree with the behavior.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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