DOMA and Prop 8 - Page 34
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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    However.. we are not just being asked to allow a sin.. we are being asked to support it financially and in our words.. and are labeled if we do not agree with the behavior.
    Whose gay marriage are you being asked to throw? And you are free to continue to say whatever you like - say you hate gay marriage or gay people or ANYTHING at all- but don't promote the idea that equal rights are an issue to be voted on. They aren't. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you have to sing its praises. I think many things should be legal though I find them personally terrible.

  2. #332
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    I thought this quote that was on the front of my church's bulletin this morning was interesting, in light of this debate:

    "Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than the whiskey bottle in the hand of (another)...There are just some kind of men who are so busy worrying about the next world they've never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results"
    - Harper Lee

    What I took away from that is that some people are so worried about judging others for their sins and how they'll go to hell, instead of learning to accept others for who they are. Time change - we are not the same world we were when the Bible was originally authored. I'm not saying "hey, murder is awesome!!!". But even if you see homosexuality as a sin, honestly - how is it affecting you? Did your marriage suddenly become less meaningful when DOMA was struck down?
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  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So just randomly calling me out in a post where I wasn't even part of the conversation and saying I hate homosexuals isn't against the rules? Good to know. Funny thing is she was agreeing that murder and all sin is the same. Pretty much what you are saying is that is ok because I deserved it, right?
    What do you mean you weren't part of the discussion? You've been posting throughout this thread?

    But no, as I said, it's not appropriate to debate you personally.

    But I'm also not going to pretend like I have no idea where anyone would get the idea that you have a problem with homosexuals.
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  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by mommydearest View Post
    I thought this quote that was on the front of my church's bulletin this morning was interesting, in light of this debate:

    "Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than the whiskey bottle in the hand of (another)...There are just some kind of men who are so busy worrying about the next world they've never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results"
    - Harper Lee

    What I took away from that is that some people are so worried about judging others for their sins and how they'll go to hell, instead of learning to accept others for who they are. Time change - we are not the same world we were when the Bible was originally authored. I'm not saying "hey, murder is awesome!!!". But even if you see homosexuality as a sin, honestly - how is it affecting you? Did your marriage suddenly become less meaningful when DOMA was struck down?
    That's how I feel about the "definition of marriage" argument. I don't understand how that can matter more than people's rights, than the reality of where we are NOW and what we have learned about gay people. We learned that women are smart, can have jobs, can vote. We learned that men can stay home and look after children and be wonderful loving gentle fathers. We learned that people of all colors and ethnicity can love each other and be married. So why is this particular step so terrible, so threatening?
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  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Except it doesn't have anything to do with rights. It is only about the government stepping in and changing the definition of marriage from what Jesus states in that same Bible. That is ALL I care about. How is it my fault that the government decided to tie rights to marriage?
    Since we do not create laws & rules based on the Bible, this is irrelevant. If you want a church marriage but not a government one you are welcome to it. The reality we live in now is that we don't have a society that lives by one religion. Why you think your religion should dictate laws and policies, I don't know, but that's not the way America works.
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  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    i mean in your non-government marriage world. The one you think would be better. Does it still include marriage for you? And does it give gay people some other not-marriage substitute?
    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Then can someone advocating no government in marriage please answer the real question? In this new world, is there still marriage? What does it mean? And do you get to keep yours? Gay people clearly don't get to have it and I presume there is nothing for the atheists as well but no one will spell out the details or explain in what way it would make things better. What needs to change? What is wrong with marriage as it is now? How does the legalization of it make it a negative?
    Understand that I said in the begining "In ideal world", not that it was practical or that it would ever happen. I feel like I have gone in circles about this so many times but I shall try one more time to articulate my opinion on the subject.

    I do not think the Government has any business in marriage. If the Government stepped out of marriage, in the eyes of the law my marriage would be like a common law partnership. This partnership could be available to anyone. man/woman, woman/woman, man/man, two best friends, an adult son and his elderly father, aunt niece whatever. If related it might not be the closest biological relationship. This partnership is not defined by romantic love. Anyone that wanted a civil wedding could have one. It may be a religious service in a church, but it may also be something else in a rented hall or outside. Many of the weddings I have been to are not done in a church. Many weddings are also performed by a normal person who gets a special licence to be able to marry someone. In this scenario anyone could by married before their friends and family by whomever they chose.

    I do think the currant system is biased to many people, not just homosexuals. I believe it would be more fair for everyone involved if the Government was not picking and choosing who to allow these benefits go to. The Government process of joining property should not be handled in a religious ceremony, and the Government should not be butting its nose into a religious ceremony. It also would not be asking anyone to pay taxes toward any particular relationship. Everyone would pay the same percentage of taxes regardless if they were married or not.
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  7. #337
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    I do not understand why we are even entering that into the debate. You yourself say it won't work and will never happen. It's like debating which color unicorn is the prettiest.eta: and anyone could do it? So on a random Friday night after some drinks 23 year old Jim bob could "marry" sue and chip? And WHO keeps track of all of these legal couplings and uncouplings? It would be a paperwork NIGHTMARE. It's just so zany as to make me think you are joking.
    Last edited by Potter75; 07-14-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #338
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    Another hot topic. I find that these discussions are important and reasonable to have. My personal hope would be that somehow both sides would have an opportunity to present their pov in a way that the opposing side would be able to gain a better understanding (not agreement) of their position.

    I do not believe that anyone on this board, however, should then feel bullied, attacked, etc. for sharing their point of view. As I shared on the other thread -- it is FINE to disagree with a post or position but LEAVE the personal attacks out. DEBATE the topic.

    Thanks.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I've always maintained that the bible says all sin is the same. Always. Which leaves me no other conclusion to draw but simple bigotry or homophobia when Christians are only lobbying to deny equal rights to gays. Not the obese (gluttony). Not other sins. Just this one. Because of homophobia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Ok... let's take gluttony -
    Are we being asked to promote gluttony? Or financially support it? Or even say it is right and good to love "food"? In some ways I think one could make the case.. as in big business and advertising, federal subsidize for corn for corn syrup etc.. .. like Supersize ME points out. However, we are allowed to choose to not eat there, and I do see lots of protesting against gluttony.. families not eating out, and promoting healthier lifestyles...And I see lots of outrage in my area anyway against the processed foods etc.
    Weeellllll....I seem to remember a law trying to ban selling sodas over a certain size. I also remember the outrage! People can decide for themselves if they want to sin or not. Who are you to tell me I can't feed my gluttonous beast? Yeah, the right to sin won out on that one. It wasn't people protesting against gluttony; they protested for gluttony.

    If ALL sin is the same, we should work together to get the cruise lines shut down lest we allow the sin of sloth. And how about lust? Yeah, I don't see legislators trying to ban man's right to drool on the Victoria Secret catalog and woman's right to sell lap dances in Vegas.

    Greed? I don't even know where to start. Maybe we should throw Donald Trump in jail now.
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  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Then can someone advocating no government in marriage please answer the real question? In this new world, is there still marriage? What does it mean? And do you get to keep yours? Gay people clearly don't get to have it and I presume there is nothing for the atheists as well but no one will spell out the details or explain in what way it would make things better. What needs to change? What is wrong with marriage as it is now? How does the legalization of it make it a negative?
    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I do not understand why we are even entering that into the debate.

    It's just so zany as to make me think you are joking.
    It was specifically asked, so I answered. I am not joking or lying, I honestly think it would be a better situation than we have now.

    ~Bonita~

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