DOMA and Prop 8 - Page 42
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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    1- Just because other marriages were allowed previously in history doesn't mean it is ok.. or that groups will view it as right. Nor does it mean that it isn't changing the definition we currently use in our society.
    2- Government shouldn't be telling people they have to agree to something against their religious beliefs.
    3- I already showed that YES they would have to support gay marriage.
    4- Prove that the majority of laws are NOT based on the Bible.. I will contend that the majority of laws were based on the Bible. And if not.. where did they come from?
    Actually, just about all religions and Eastern philosophies agree on a few basic things e.g., murder is bad. The fact that we make laws banning murder is not because it is part of the 10 Commandments or any other religious beliefs.

    Can you direct me to the passages in the bible that our drug laws are based on? Labor laws? Education laws? Immigration?

    And can you direct me to the laws that ban tattoos, mixing fabrics, cheeseburgers, and adultery, divorces?

    In countries where the majority of the population isn't Christian, are they just lawless? Like in Japan, can I just go around killing people?

    The best laws are ones that can be supported without a biblical argument. In theory, you don't need to pass a law telling Christians not to kill because they are going to follow the bible. In theory, an atheist wouldn't follow the bible or laws based on the bible. So who exactly is the law for?

    I can make a human rights argument against murder. I don't need to cite the bible to convince others that murder is wrong.

    If Christians are supposed to follow biblical law, and the MAJORITY of the laws are based in the bible, why are there so many Christians in prison?
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  2. #412
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    I find this song from decades gone by extremely relevant.

    Come gather 'round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You'll be drenched to the bone
    If your time to you
    Is worth savin'
    Then you better start swimmin'
    Or you'll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come writers and critics
    Who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide
    The chance won't come again
    And don't speak too soon
    For the wheel's still in spin
    And there's no tellin' who
    That it's namin'
    For the loser now
    Will be later to win
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don't stand in the doorway
    Don't block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There's a battle outside
    And it is ragin'
    It'll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don't criticize
    What you can't understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin'
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can't lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is
    Rapidly fadin'
    And the first one now
    Will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Bob Dylan
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  3. #413
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Years ago they ... said I was a prophet. I used to say, "No I'm not a prophet" they say "Yes you are, you're a prophet." I said, "No it's not me." They used to say "You sure are a prophet." They used to convince me I was a prophet. Now I come out and say Jesus Christ is the answer. They say, "Bob Dylan's no prophet." They just can't handle it.

    - Bob Dylan
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Years ago they ... said I was a prophet. I used to say, "No I'm not a prophet" they say "Yes you are, you're a prophet." I said, "No it's not me." They used to say "You sure are a prophet." They used to convince me I was a prophet. Now I come out and say Jesus Christ is the answer. They say, "Bob Dylan's no prophet." They just can't handle it.

    - Bob Dylan
    I certainly didn't say he was a prophet. He's a musician.

    When he wrote this song, he wasn't being prophetic, he was commenting on the times. I think it applies really well to to what is going on now too.
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  5. #415
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Actually, just about all religions and Eastern philosophies agree on a few basic things e.g., murder is bad. The fact that we make laws banning murder is not because it is part of the 10 Commandments or any other religious beliefs.

    Can you direct me to the passages in the bible that our drug laws are based on? Labor laws? Education laws? Immigration?

    And can you direct me to the laws that ban tattoos, mixing fabrics, cheeseburgers, and adultery, divorces?

    In countries where the majority of the population isn't Christian, are they just lawless? Like in Japan, can I just go around killing people?

    The best laws are ones that can be supported without a biblical argument. In theory, you don't need to pass a law telling Christians not to kill because they are going to follow the bible. In theory, an atheist wouldn't follow the bible or laws based on the bible. So who exactly is the law for?

    I can make a human rights argument against murder. I don't need to cite the bible to convince others that murder is wrong.

    If Christians are supposed to follow biblical law, and the MAJORITY of the laws are based in the bible, why are there so many Christians in prison?
    None of this answers the position. Instead you are deflecting into other arguments/discussions. I will answer but please address the comment. I think you know the majority of the Founding Fathers, who created the constitution and those who wrote the Federal Bill of Rights had a strong sense of a Sovereign God. To say they did not use the Bible in creating these documents, "The majority of our laws" is short sighted at best.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  6. #416
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    I'm not too concerned about times changing. They have changed before. The Bible has stood the test of time for the last 2000 years and it is still the most read book in the world.
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  8. #418
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    You are right. Because God didn't say it to Moses.
    Jesus is the one that said it.

    Matthew 19:4-6
    4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
    Mark 10
    5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
    I wonder why none of those articles address that verse?
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-16-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    None of this answers the position. Instead you are deflecting into other arguments/discussions. I will answer but please address the comment. I think you know the majority of the Founding Fathers, who created the constitution and those who wrote the Federal Bill of Rights had a strong sense of a Sovereign God. To say they did not use the Bible in creating these documents, "The majority of our laws" is short sighted at best.
    Please cite specifically which of our laws come from the bible? Other than our current bans on gay marriage, I can't really think of any laws that had to come from the bible? I mean, you could say "thou shalt not kill" and things like that, but murder is also illegal in non-Christian countries, and also it seems to me that apparently we don't follow the commandment of "thou shalt not kill" in our country. The government kills inmates and sends soldiers off to war to kill, plus we let killers off the hook (hi GZ! Lookin' at you, baby!) The commandment doesn't say 'Thou shalt not kill except when...." it just says "Thou shalt not kill." full stop. And that's just one example. So, I'm going to need to you to back up your thesis that our laws are based on the bible a little bit. Thanks!
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    You didn't actually read any of the articles, did you Gloria. Because that passage is specifically discussed and by your own quote it makes ZERO reference to "marriage". Go ahead and bury your head in the sand all you want, but the bottom line is that it is hypocritical to hold steadfast to ONE 'Biblical' definition that doesn't even exist in the way YOU want it to exist, but then say that incest and polygamy - both discussed in and clearly supported by the Bible are against your moral standards. Of course incest and polygamy are not cultural norms of our society. We have done away with those. That's okay, right? So, if your Biblical 'definition' of marriage existed, you hold fast to the notion that it will withstand the test of time when clearly other historical behaviours that were once condoned are now immoral and/or illegal?
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