DOMA and Prop 8 - Page 43
+ Reply to Thread
Page 43 of 48 FirstFirst ... 33394041424344454647 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 430 of 479
Like Tree248Likes

Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #421
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    You didn't actually read any of the articles, did you Gloria. Because that passage is specifically discussed and by your own quote it makes ZERO reference to "marriage". Go ahead and bury your head in the sand all you want, but the bottom line is that it is hypocritical to hold steadfast to ONE 'Biblical' definition that doesn't even exist in the way YOU want it to exist, but then say that incest and polygamy - both discussed in and clearly supported by the Bible are against your moral standards. Of course incest and polygamy are not cultural norms of our society. We have done away with those. That's okay, right? So, if your Biblical 'definition' of marriage existed, you hold fast to the notion that it will withstand the test of time when clearly other historical behaviours that were once condoned are now immoral and/or illegal?
    It absolutely does exist and that is not the only verse that talks about marriage. If it wasn't addressing marriage what was it talking about? They were actually asking him about divorce. How could he be addressing divorce if he wasn't talking about marriage?

    Mark 10
    Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.

    2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

    3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

    4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

    5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
    Jesus was also making clear that polygamy is no longer supported in the same verse. There were a lot of things done in the Old Testament that Jesus said were no longer acceptable.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-16-2013 at 11:32 AM.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  2. #422
    Community Host
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    13,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    but then say that incest and polygamy - both discussed in and clearly supported by the Bible are against your moral standards.
    Just to clarify, polygamy is not supported in the bible. It happened, but is taught against. (Not that it matters in the context of this debate, but just wanted to point that out.)

    ~Bonita~

  3. #423
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    You didn't actually read any of the articles, did you Gloria. Because that passage is specifically discussed
    Can you show me where? Because I did look at the articles and I went back and looked at them again, and I don't see either of those verses discussed. Maybe I missed it somehow.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  4. #424
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,567

    Default

    I'm not an expert, but saying that a man shouldn't divorce his wife and that a man and woman should be together is not speaking out against gay marriage.

    Anyway, we don't make laws based on Jesus' teachings, worthwhile and profound as they can be.

    We don't live in a country dictated by Christian theology. Influenced, yes. Dictated, no.

    And...

    (Timeline of civil marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    I bolded some key ones.
    1800–1899

    1900–1999

    • 1900 – All states now grant married women the right to own property in their own name.
    • 1904 – LDS Church President Joseph F. Smith issues the 1904 "Second Manifesto",which stated that the church was no longer sanctioning plural (polygamous) marriages and would excommunicate anyone who participates in future polygamy.[3]
    • 1907 – All women acquire their husband's nationality upon any marriage occurring after that date.
    • 1933 – Married women granted right to citizenship independent of their husbands.
    • 1948 – California Supreme Court overturns interracial marriage ban (Perez v. Sharp).
    • 1965 – The Supreme Court overturns laws prohibiting married couples from using contraception (Griswold v. Connecticut).
    • 1967 – The Supreme Court overturns laws prohibiting interracial couples from marrying (Loving v. Virginia).[4]
    • 1969 – The first no-fault divorce law is adopted in California.[4]
    • 1971 – The Supreme Court upholds an Alabama law which automatically changes a woman's legal surname to that of her husband upon marriage.[citation needed]
    • 1971 – The Supreme Court refuses to hear challenge to a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling allowing prohibition of same-sex marriage (Baker v. Nelson).
    • 1972 – The Supreme Court overturns laws prohibiting unmarried couples from purchasing contraception (Eisenstadt v. Baird).
    • 1973 – Maryland becomes the first state in the U.S. to define marriage as "between a man and a woman" in statute.
    • 1975 – Married women allowed to have credit in their own name.
    • 1975 – Three states outlaw same-sex marriage by statutes.
    • 1976 – The Supreme Court overturns laws prohibiting abortions for married women without the consent of the husband.
    • 1993 – All 50 states have revised laws to include marital rape.[4]
    • 1994 – 40 of the 50 states amend their marriage statutes to outlaw same-sex marriage.
    • 1996 – President Bill Clinton signs the Defense of Marriage Act into law, which outlaws federal recognition of both same-sex marriage and polygamy, and removes any requirement that states recognize such marriages entered into in other jurisdictions.
    • 1998 – Hawaii amends its constitution to allow the legislature to ban same-sex marriage, in response to a court ruling which would otherwise have allowed such marriages. Alaska becomes the first state to ban both same-sex marriage and polygamy in its constitution.
    • 1998 – South Carolina is the penultimate state in the U.S. to remove the ban on interracial marriage in its state constitution.
    2000–present

    • 2000 – Nebraska amends its state constitution to outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy.
    • 2000 – Alabama becomes the last state in the US to remove the ban on interracial marriage in its state constitution.
    • 2002 – Nevada amends its state constitution to outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy.
    • 2004 – Massachusetts grants and recognizes same-sex marriages, while 14 states rush to outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy through their state constitutions in response.
    • 2005 – Texas amends its state constitution to outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy.
    • 2006 – 26 states outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy through their state constitutions. Arizona becomes the first state in the United States to reject a constitutional amendment banning both same-sex marriage and polygamy, but passes a constitutional amendment two years later.
    • 2006 – 8th Circuit Court of Appeals upholds Nebraska's ban on gay marriage.[5]
    • 2008 – New York starts recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, but does not grant such marriages. Connecticut begins granting and recognizing same-sex marriages. California briefly granting and recognizing same-sex marriage until the passage of Proposition 8 later in the year (as well as both the states of Arizona and Florida in banning same-sex marriage and polygamy on the same day in there state constitutions). In California only (prior to Proposition continues recognizing same-sex marriages entered into prior to the proposition's passage. 29 states outlaw same-sex marriage and polygamy through their state constitutions.
    • 2009 – Iowa and Vermont grant and recognize same-sex marriages; the District of Columbia starts recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, but does not grant such marriages. Maine repeals the legalization of same-sex marriage before coming into effect by popular vote, which was overturned three years later by another popular vote.
    • 2010 – New Hampshire and the District of Columbia begins granting and recognizing same-sex marriages. Maryland starts recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, but does not grant such marriages. In Perry v. Schwarzenegger, a district court overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage (however, the decision is stayed pending an appeal).
    • 2011 – New York begins granting and recognizing same-sex marriages.
    • 2012 – A federal appeals court upholds the district court decision that struck down California's ban on same-sex marriage (the case is expected to be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court).[6]
    • 2012 – North Carolina amends its state constitution by a vote to outlaw both same-sex marriage and polygamy, bringing the total to 30 states that have outlawed both same-sex marriage and polygamy through their state constitutions. Rhode Island starts recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, but does not grant such marriages.
    • 2012 – Both Washington and Maine begins granting and recognizing same-sex marriages, only after approval from a referendum. While Minnesota rejects a constitutional amendment banning both same-sex marriage and polygamy.
    • 2013 – Maryland begins granting and recognizing same-sex marriages, only after approval from a referendum.
    • 2013 - Legal same-sex marriage beings in Delaware and Minnesota.
    • 2013 - The Supreme Court of the United States finds that there is no standing for the appeal of the decision overturning Proposition 8 in California, leading to re-introduction of legal same-sex marriages in that state.
    • 2013 - The Supreme Court of the United States overturns the Defense of Marriage Act, which outlaws federal recognition of both same-sex marriage and polygamy. Requiring that the federal government recognize marriages, in states where such unions are legal.
    Lots of changes on both ends of the spectrum.

    Time for more changes....
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  5. #425
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    9,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It absolutely does exist and that is not the only verse that talks about marriage. If it wasn't addressing marriage what was it talking about? They were actually asking him about divorce. How could he be addressing divorce if he wasn't talking about marriage?



    Jesus was also making clear that polygamy is no longer supported in the same verse. There were a lot of things done in the Old Testament that Jesus said were no longer acceptable.
    Agreed--- AND even in the OT people had consequences for polygamy.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  6. #426
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,567

    Default

    double post
    Last edited by freddieflounder101; 07-16-2013 at 11:52 AM.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  7. #427
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    9,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    I certainly didn't say he was a prophet. He's a musician.

    When he wrote this song, he wasn't being prophetic, he was commenting on the times. I think it applies really well to to what is going on now too.
    The POINT is that he is also a Christian.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  8. #428
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    The POINT is that he is also a Christian.
    He's also a Jew.

    But...how does that factor into any of this? Not sure what the point is you're trying to make.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  9. #429
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,517

    Default

    This is from one of the articles that I cited, which is the same passage as you also quoted, and it is the first paragraph, part of which I bolded, and note that your quote is actually Jesus quoting Genesis:

    The man named all the cattle, birds of the sky, and wild animals, but no match was found for a man. Adonai God cast a deep sleep upon the man and he slept. God took one of his ribs and closed the flesh in its place. Adonai God fashioned the rib that God had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. The man said, "This time [God has brought me] bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. I will call this one 'woman,' since she was taken from 'man.'" That is why a man leaves his mother and father and attaches himself to his woman so they will be one flesh. (Genesis 2:21-24)

    This is the most common passage offered as evidence of a biblical definition of marriage, although, usually only the last verse is cited. When you read the whole story, though, it is clear that this passage is not about marriage.

    This story is an etiology, a story that explains how the world came to be the way it is. The purpose of the story is to explain why human beings appear in two different forms, male and female. God determined that the man needed a match, a partner who was his equal. (The common translation "helper" or "helpmeet" is incorrect. The word ezer means "strength" or "power" in Biblical Hebrew, not "help.") God had to fashion a new being for the man from the man's own body, since none of the newly created animals could match him. That being was named "woman" (ishah) because she was taken from "man" (ish).

    The story also explains why men seek out women and why "he attaches himself to his woman to form one flesh" (I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out what that's talking about). The story explains that this desire to connect bodies is an impulse that overrides even a man's attachment to his parents.

    This passage does not define anything. Rather, it is an explanation of why the world is as we see it. There are two kinds of human beings who are made out of the same stuff and, because of that, they are attracted to each other in sexual union.

    Where did I say that the Bible does not refer to marriage? Of course it does. My dispute with what you have said is the 'Bible's definition of marriage.' It is nowhere defined in the Bible.

  10. #430
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    This is from one of the articles that I cited, which is the same passage as you also quoted, and it is the first paragraph, part of which I bolded, and note that your quote is actually Jesus quoting Genesis:

    Where did I say that the Bible does not refer to marriage? Of course it does. My dispute with what you have said is the 'Bible's definition of marriage.' It is nowhere defined in the Bible.
    Jesus may quote Genesis, but he IS talking about marriage, that is why he says WIFE
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
v -->

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Sitemap | Terms & Conditions