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  1. #441
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Right. Based on RG's argument atheists wouldn't be allowed to get married. Good grief, could you imagine? The common-law relationships would just run amok. At least they wouldn't be trampling on the rights of us hetero married folks.
    I actually had someone on this very board once tell me straight up that I'm not married because my husband and I are atheists. It's memorable just because....wow! But I'm actually way less worked up about that (like times a million) than I am about gay marriage because luckily the people who think atheists "aren't really married" aren't actually trying to take our civil rights away. That's why I think it's so funny that some Christians rail about "being forced to accept...." No, they aren't. If gay people are allowed to get married under the law, they can consider them not married if that's what floats their boat, just like they can consider me not married if that's what floats their boat. Who cares? It wouldn't affect anyone but themselves, having to carry around all of that negativity.
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  2. #442
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    I should have never bothered. Anyone want to discourage me from going and banging my head against the wall?
    I believe that you're fighting against the logical fallacy "affirming a disjunct." The bible verse does not state exclusivity, ("if and only if") so it's possible that other definitions of marriage exist and are valid.

    In other words
    A or B (or is used inclusively, not exclusively)
    A, so not B

    Marriage is between a man and a woman or between a man and a man
    Marriage is between a man and a woman, therefore not between a man and a man. (Incorrect statement because or was not defined as exclusive, so it could be both rather than only one or the other.)

    I think that's what you're debating, but my Philosophy 101 is rusty.
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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Jesus may quote Genesis, but he IS talking about marriage, that is why he says WIFE
    Yeah, because we all know the word "wife" exists in Aramaic and/or Hebrew. Right. Just like "virgin" does. Except that those words don't exist in those languages. Things get lost in translation.
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Yeah, because we all know the word "wife" exists in Aramaic and/or Hebrew. Right. Just like "virgin" does. Except that they don't. Things get lost in translation.
    So what do you suggest he was talking about when they asked him about divorce?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    If Jesus tells us what it IS.... why does he have to then list everything it isn't? That just doesn't makes sense. If I say my car is blue, do I then have to say.... its not gray, not green, not black? It is NEVER talked about in any other context than between a husband and wife, male and female, man and woman in every verse discussing marriage in the whole new testament. Do you think there were no gay people back then? I'm pretty sure they existed because it was condemned as a sin. So how is marriage not defined solely as between a man and a woman? The world's views don't change what the Bible says in black and white.
    It made sense with regards to love, no?

    1 Corinthians 13:4-8
    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    I should have never bothered. Anyone want to discourage me from going and banging my head against the wall?
    Give it up, Lisa, they aren't worth the trouble. They are going to have to be dragged against their will into the 21st century concept of equal human rights and they'll be kicking & screaming & pounding their bibles all the way. You made really good arguments but they are falling on deaf ears.
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    But Bob Dylan is Christian!

    Sorry, I just had to throw that in there....still trying to figure out why it's relevant, and I went to lunch and came back but still didn't find out.

    Anyway, discussing marriage as it was known then does not equal a blanket statement about homosexuals.

    I can say, "and then the woman gives birth, and becomes a mother" but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as adoption. There are other ways to become a mother.
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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Exactly Laurie. Short of an "if and only if" statement, it can't be confirmed as an exclusive statement.
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  9. #449
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Exactly Laurie. Short of an "if and only if" statement, it can't be confirmed as an exclusive statement.
    Except it isn't only mentioned in that one place. It is mentioned there and affirmed again and again in all the other verses that talk about husbands and wives and their relationship and how they should treat each other.


    Ephesians 5
    22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-16-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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  10. #450
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    But our laws don't have wives submitting to husbands, because our laws aren't made to accommodate what it says in the Bible.
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