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  1. #451
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    But our laws don't have wives submitting to husbands, because our laws aren't made to accommodate what it says in the Bible.
    But our laws do recognize the basic premise that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the most basic definition and that has not changed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Except it isn't only mentioned in that one place. It is mentioned there and affirmed again and again in all the other verses that talk about husbands and wives and their relationship and how they should treat each other.
    And we've shown you where real marriages in the real world are now, and have been for centuries, between two men. We have shown you where the definition of what a real marriage in the real world means has changed over time and from place to place. the only thing you've shown us is one book, and a whole bunch of discrimination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    But our laws do recognize the basic premise that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the most basic definition and that has not changed.
    YES it has, in multiple states, and it will continue to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Except it isn't only mentioned in that one place. It is mentioned there and affirmed again and again in all the other verses that talk about husbands and wives and their relationship and how they should treat each other.
    None of that says that it is exclusive. Laurie's example was perfect; it could say in multiple places "Mothers, care for the children of your bodies" and things like that, but that wouldn't mean that adoptive mothers can't be considered true mothers. Most mothers give birth to their children, so it makes sense that the language would reflect that, but it doesn't mean that adoptive mothers are automatically excluded. The same is true of marriage - most people are straight so it makes sense that the language would reflect that, but short of an exclusive statement, we can't know that it was specifically meant to exclude gay people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    And we've shown you where real marriages in the real world are now, and have been for centuries, between two men. We have shown you where the definition of what a real marriage in the real world means has changed over time and from place to place. the only thing you've shown us is one book, and a whole bunch of discrimination.
    No you mentioned that the Greeks MIGHT have allowed gay marriage 2000 years ago. That is even disputed by different historians. They also fed Christians to the lions, so I'm not sure why we would want to use them for our model anyway. I'm not really concerned about what other countries around the world are doing. It is concerning what a handful of states have done, but the majority of the country still has laws defining marriage as between a man and a woman. And that book is the most widely read book in the world, so I think it carries some significance.
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    Well, if you won't accept what the Greeks did, how about what the Native Americans did and are starting to do again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    No you mentioned that the Greeks MIGHT have allowed gay marriage 2000 years ago. That is even disputed by different historians. They also fed Christians to the lions, so I'm not sure why we would want to use them for our model anyway. I'm not really concerned about what other countries around the world are doing. It is concerning what a handful of states have done, but the majority of the country still has laws defining marriage as between a man and a woman. And that book is the most widely read book in the world, so I think it carries some significance.
    The majority will catch up with progress eventually, that's for sure. The same way we learned to abolish slavery, and give women the vote, and give women equality in marriage, and get rid of laws banning "interracial" marriage. (I hate that expression as I think we're really all one race.)

    If Harry Potter was the most widely read book in the world it would still not affect lawmaking.

    It doesn't matter how many people read the Bible. It's a magnificent book. It should be read. It should not be, and is not, how we make laws. We have people of multiple religions here, people with no religion, and we live in a wonderful country that does not force all to follow the rules of one specific religion. It's a beautiful thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    None of that says that it is exclusive. Laurie's example was perfect; it could say in multiple places "Mothers, care for the children of your bodies" and things like that, but that wouldn't mean that adoptive mothers can't be considered true mothers. Most mothers give birth to their children, so it makes sense that the language would reflect that, but it doesn't mean that adoptive mothers are automatically excluded. The same is true of marriage - most people are straight so it makes sense that the language would reflect that, but short of an exclusive statement, we can't know that it was specifically meant to exclude gay people.
    Sorry I just think it's a HUGE stretch to go from this:

    Romans 1:26-28
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
    to men were married to men in the Bible they just didn't mention it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Well, if you won't accept what the Greeks did, how about what the Native Americans did and are starting to do again?
    Well it was pretty obscure in the first place don't think it has much to do with today's laws. They have their own laws anyway so I don't think it's that relevant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Sorry I just think it's a HUGE stretch to go from this:



    to men were married to men in the Bible they just didn't mention it.
    I don't know that "men were married in the Bible" I'm just saying that the bible doesn't speak out against gay marriage. Again, there is a difference between not mentioning something and forbidding it. Jesus never forbade it, so if he is your authority on right and wrong....
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