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Thread: DOMA and Prop 8

  1. #81
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I have actually said I don't think government should be involved in marriage at all. Why should someone have to be married to get preferential treatment from the government? Why should 2 people raising a child together who aren't married be discriminated against? That would be true separation of church and state.
    If that is truly how you feel, then why on Earth are you arguing so vehemently against gay marriage? It shouldn't matter to you at all. Your church won't marry gay people and will never have to, so stop fighting against others having the right to a legal marriage because that's what our government offers at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I have actually said I don't think government should be involved in marriage at all. Why should someone have to be married to get preferential treatment from the government? Why should 2 people raising a child together who aren't married be discriminated against? That would be true separation of church and state.
    The church doesn't have to be involved in marriage silly! It wasn't in mine! And marriage is good for our country- of COURSE the government has a vested interest in promoting it. That's a transparent and flawed argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Your church won't marry gay people and will never have to
    Asking an honest question. In Canada and other countries that are in support of gay marriage, are pastors allowed to say that the will only marry Straight couples and say outright that they will not marry a gay couple? I have heard rumors (Not sure if it is true or not) that in Canada pastors are not allowed to preach against homosexuality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Asking an honest question. In Canada and other countries that are in support of gay marriage, are pastors allowed to say that the will only marry Straight couples and say outright that they will not marry a gay couple? I have heard rumors (Not sure if it is true or not) that in Canada pastors are not allowed to preach against homosexuality.
    Canada has very different hate speech laws than the US- but it's super easy to google more about this. Preaching hatred or intolerance Or bigotry could theoretically be shut down- though actually seeing it happen is rare. Then again- they don't seem to hate gay people like us "Christians" do so it just isn't that big of a deal.
    Last edited by Potter75; 07-02-2013 at 06:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I have actually said I don't think government should be involved in marriage at all. Why should someone have to be married to get preferential treatment from the government? Why should 2 people raising a child together who aren't married be discriminated against? That would be true separation of church and state.
    Yes, we've debated this one. I prefer that the church stay out of marriage but I'd like to keep the government involved, thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Asking an honest question. In Canada and other countries that are in support of gay marriage, are pastors allowed to say that the will only marry Straight couples and say outright that they will not marry a gay couple? I have heard rumors (Not sure if it is true or not) that in Canada pastors are not allowed to preach against homosexuality.
    I honestly don't know what a Canadian pastor can or can't do, but here in the U.S. the question isn't necessarilly "preaching against homosexuality" but whether the preaching becomes hate speech or not. Churches are private organizations with voluntary membership, and if the rules of the church say that homosexuality is a sin, then the pastor can teach that lesson to his voluntary members, and that's OK. Now if that pastor goes on to say things like, gays should get god's word beaten into them, or I will kick you out of this church if I see you being nice to your gay neighbor, things that advocate violence and intimidation and discrimination and would be considered hate speech, and a pastor *should* get in trouble for saying things like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I honestly don't know what a Canadian pastor can or can't do, but here in the U.S. the question isn't necessarilly "preaching against homosexuality" but whether the preaching becomes hate speech or not. Churches are private organizations with voluntary membership, and if the rules of the church say that homosexuality is a sin, then the pastor can teach that lesson to his voluntary members, and that's OK. Now if that pastor goes on to say things like, gays should get god's word beaten into them, or I will kick you out of this church if I see you being nice to your gay neighbor, things that advocate violence and intimidation and discrimination and would be considered hate speech, and a pastor *should* get in trouble for saying things like that.
    I believe it is similar in Canada. And no pastor has to marry anyone they dont want to, it is up to the individual church.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I honestly don't know what a Canadian pastor can or can't do, but here in the U.S. the question isn't necessarilly "preaching against homosexuality" but whether the preaching becomes hate speech or not. Churches are private organizations with voluntary membership, and if the rules of the church say that homosexuality is a sin, then the pastor can teach that lesson to his voluntary members, and that's OK. Now if that pastor goes on to say things like, gays should get god's word beaten into them, or I will kick you out of this church if I see you being nice to your gay neighbor, things that advocate violence and intimidation and discrimination and would be considered hate speech, and a pastor *should* get in trouble for saying things like that.
    I obviously do not think anyone should treat a gay person poorly. I do wonder though if what was previously stated about churches not having to marry a gay couple ever is true. I think a lot of the push back (At least among people I have talked to) about not wanting gay marriage legalised is for this reason. The fear that it will be forced into the churches or that churches could be shut down if homosexuality is preached against. I also know people who fear the Bible will be labeled a hate book for the verses against homosexuality and banned.

    I know several people personally who could care less if someone is homosexual, but are worried about the things I previously mentioned and would fight against gay rights for that reason.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Preaching hatred or intolerance Or bigotry could theoretically be shut down- though actually seeing it happen is rare.
    It doesn't matter if it is rare or not. I would never want such laws here. The Government has no business telling a Pastor or a church what they can preach.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I obviously do not think anyone should treat a gay person poorly. I do wonder though if what was previously stated about churches not having to marry a gay couple ever is true. I think a lot of the push back (At least among people I have talked to) about not wanting gay marriage legalised is for this reason. The fear that it will be forced into the churches or that churches could be shut down if homosexuality is preached against. I also know people who fear the Bible will be labeled a hate book for the verses against homosexuality and banned.

    I know several people personally who could care less if someone is homosexual, but are worried about the things I previously mentioned and would fight against gay rights for that reason.

    But this hasn't happened with marriage now. I can go down to the courthouse and get married. The Mormon Temple and the Filipino church across the street from me won't marry me because I am not a member of those places of worship.

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