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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Obviously we aren't. Because I think it is exactly the same. Who you love is a choice. Who you have sex with is a choice no matter if you are gay or straight. If you don't think it is morally wrong to have sex with a person of the same gender of course you are going to make that choice. But it is still a choice no one is holding a gun to their head.
    But whether you are sexually attracted to one gender or another is not a choice, and I will say the part you disagree with now, it's not morally wrong to be gay. Period.

    Now you may say I'm being intolerant of your opinion, but of course I think the opposite.

    And any time you have sex with anyone, it's a choice.

    Love...well the poets would argue that it's not a choice. I've certainly fallen for the wrong person myself, and chosen not to act on it, and done everything I could to change my feelings, and eventually, over time, things changed. But it's not like a light switch. Choosing not to have sex is a light switch. Choosing not to feel something is another matter.
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  2. #12
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    I think that its great but sadly I don't think that its going to be a watershed moment. I think that to be a part of a group such as that one has to have a special sort of gay hatred/bigotry. I think that the real movement has to come at the every day level ~ the churches. Until that starts to occur on a mass level (and especially in the non denom churches in particular)........we aren't going to see mass change.

    As Gloria pointed out, even amongst well educated, generally well off adults (like at Messiah College, which costs 30K/year) gay Americans are being bullied and hated on.......the Christian community is intolerant and hateful towards Gay people. Until the churches start to stop the hatred on a local level, we won't see the sort of change and acceptance we need to have.

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    It is not about hatred or bigotry. For Christians who believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God it is the core of their belief system. That is something that will never change, regardless of what changes in society. The Bible clearly states 1) Marriage is between male and female 2) ANY sex outside of marriage is sin. You might as well say that we hate people who commit Adultery or couples who live together without being married. It is the same thing. The only difference is that most people who are committing those sins don't usually ask other people to accept them for their sin. How many people stand up and say "I'm an adulteress and I'm proud of it". For the Christians who don't believe in the Bible literally and use it just as a sort of symbol this is not a problem because they just use the parts that suit their belief system. But for Christians like me that believe in the unchanging absolute truth of the Bible nothing that changes in society will affect what I believe.
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    RIght. Except history proves that that isn't true. Christians have changed the rules for themselves en masse many times throughout history. You like to say that you are divorced and remarried righteously according to the one biblical loophole allowing it.....but that isn't so according to other Christian sects. Its all about where you stand, and that line is ever shifting. You are lying to yourself if you can't look at history and admit that. All sin is the same in the eyes of God, Gloria. The Christian obsession with Gay sex is disgusting and strange. Working to deny people the same rights as others is wrong, when you yourself know you have told a lie or coveted or in some way at some time sinned, so are just as guilty as a gay person if you see homosexuality as a sin. Working against equal rights is wrong, period. Bible aside.
    Last edited by Potter75; 06-20-2013 at 01:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    RIght. Except history proves that that isn't true. Christians have changed the rules for themselves en masse many times throughout history. You like to say that you are divorced and remarried righteously according to the one biblical loophole allowing it.....but that isn't so according to other Christian sects. Its all about where you stand, and that line is ever shifting. You are lying to yourself if you can't look at history and admit that. All sin is the same in the eyes of God, Gloria. The Christian obsession with Gay sex is disgusting and strange. Working to deny people the same rights as others is wrong, when you yourself know you have told a lie or coveted or in some way at some time sinned, so are just as guilty as a gay person if you see homosexuality as a sin. Working against equal rights is wrong, period. Bible aside.
    Christians are not obsessed with gay sex. In fact we would be perfectly happy if no one ever brought it up. We are not the one's forcing it to the forefront of the media daily. They are the ones that feel they need to announce their sexual status to the world. Gays are obsessed with trying to force Christians to accept gay sex as not sin. I would agree with you I have committed many sins. The difference is that I repent after I commit the sin and try to not do it again instead of trying to justify and say it isn't a sin. I don't see gay marriage as a right. period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is not about hatred or bigotry. For Christians who believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God it is the core of their belief system. That is something that will never change, regardless of what changes in society. The Bible clearly states 1) Marriage is between male and female 2) ANY sex outside of marriage is sin. You might as well say that we hate people who commit Adultery or couples who live together without being married. It is the same thing. The only difference is that most people who are committing those sins don't usually ask other people to accept them for their sin. How many people stand up and say "I'm an adulteress and I'm proud of it". For the Christians who don't believe in the Bible literally and use it just as a sort of symbol this is not a problem because they just use the parts that suit their belief system. But for Christians like me that believe in the unchanging absolute truth of the Bible nothing that changes in society will affect what I believe.
    My husband believes that the Bible is the inspired word of God. It is the core of his belief system.

    He is for gay marriage and does not think being gay is a sin.

    Melissa is right, the line moves ALL the time, "loopholes" get found, not everything in the Bible is followed by even the devout.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Christians are not obsessed with gay sex. In fact we would be perfectly happy if no one ever brought it up. We are not the one's forcing it to the forefront of the media daily. They are the ones that feel they need to announce their sexual status to the world. Gays are obsessed with trying to force Christians to accept gay sex as not sin. I would agree with you I have committed many sins. The difference is that I repent after I commit the sin and try to not do it again instead of trying to justify and say it isn't a sin. I don't see gay marriage as a right. period.
    Of course they'd be happy if no one brought it up, or asked for equal rights, or tried to stop discrimination.

    Not all Christians. Just some of them.

    Gay people are not obsessed with trying to force Christians to accept gay sex as not a sin. They want rights and acceptance and freedom from discrimination. And many Christians do not think it's a sin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Christians are not obsessed with gay sex. In fact we would be perfectly happy if no one ever brought it up. We are not the one's forcing it to the forefront of the media daily. They are the ones that feel they need to announce their sexual status to the world. Gays are obsessed with trying to force Christians to accept gay sex as not sin. I would agree with you I have committed many sins. The difference is that I repent after I commit the sin and try to not do it again instead of trying to justify and say it isn't a sin. I don't see gay marriage as a right. period.
    They are the ones trying to force good, righteous people to see the injustice of their plight. I'm sure if they were allowed to marry they would be quite content to simply live their lives like you and I. In states where they have won the right to marry and to have spousal benefits and rights you see that quite clearly. Its places where "they" are denied that right that "they" are "obsessed" with calling attention to the disparity of equal rights. Much like those troublesome women back in the 1920's or the pesky blacks were back in the 1950's. Notice how both groups simmered down once they were given their equal rights. I'm sure that by the time our children are adults and homosexuals have the right to marry in all states our kids won't feel as though gay people are "obsessed" with trying to force Christians to do anything. They will instead be studying how some groups oppressed others and lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is not about hatred or bigotry. For Christians who believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God it is the core of their belief system. That is something that will never change, regardless of what changes in society. The Bible clearly states 1) Marriage is between male and female 2) ANY sex outside of marriage is sin. You might as well say that we hate people who commit Adultery or couples who live together without being married. It is the same thing. The only difference is that most people who are committing those sins don't usually ask other people to accept them for their sin. How many people stand up and say "I'm an adulteress and I'm proud of it". For the Christians who don't believe in the Bible literally and use it just as a sort of symbol this is not a problem because they just use the parts that suit their belief system. But for Christians like me that believe in the unchanging absolute truth of the Bible nothing that changes in society will affect what I believe.
    I would say that the big difference is that no one is trying to make audultry or co-habitation illegal. If gay people were allowed to marry, I suspect it would be the same situation where you are still allowed to look down your noses at them all you like, but we could all stop talking about it and get on with our lives. Huzzah!
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  10. #20
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    As I have said, how you personally feel towards things is your personal feelings. If you don't want a gay marriage don't marry a woman. If you don't want to have premarital sex...don't. You just don't get the option of hurting people by discriminating against their rights or bullying them into thinking they are wrong for how they want to live.
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