I'll try one more time about size zero.
We live in a culture where the smaller the size, the better. So to have women aspiring to be a size ZERO, when a zero represents nothing, absence, a void. . .that is what bothers me. I don't think it's going to change the world but I think it is part of a culture that makes women feel like they just have to get smaller and smaller, which is why so many of them are eating chemical-filled "low fat" products and fake foods.
I do agree that people feel freer to comment on skinny women than on fat women -- in front of them. What I hear behind the scenes (when the person isn't there) is a different story.
I also think there is a real obesity problem here that gets clouded by all the weight issues and people who are NOT obese feeling like they are because they don't have flat stomachs and "perfect" bodies. So there's that as well.
As for the real obesity issue, I don't think "fat shaming" will do anything but drive those people to more secret eating and self-image problems. We need to change the way we look at food and exercise.
I do agree that the fake foods and whatnot are a problem, but I believe that that is a million times more related to what Mom cooks or how said person was raised than it does the fact that our society has a size zero.
Again, I think that the "issue" surrounding the name "zero" is as confounding as the ownership of the word "marriage" to me. Its a word.
The word doesn't drive anyone to do anything that they don't deeply want to do because of some sort of personal issue ~ that would exist if the word was "zero" or "XXS" or "size negative" or if the smallest size ever made was size "100". That desire or hatred or jealousy or pangs of longing or whatever it is would simply be replaced with that different word. I understand how words (like the C word or the N word or the R word) can hurt ~ they are directed AT people and meant to degrade. Zero is just hanging out on the shelves, not trying to affront anyone. I thought?
I disagree that most average weight or slim people compare themselves to abnormal (model or fitness pro) bodies and think that they are obese. I think that more people think that they are NOT obese or overweight when they are. I say that probably excluding teens. And it makes me terribly sad to say that, for our teens.
I think some of our different perceptions are regional. I spend most of my day in Manhattan, where perfectly healthy, trim, fit women are scooping the insides of their bagels out to make themselves feel like they're dieting. Thin is king here.
I give up on zero, I don't know how to explain it to you. If you can't understand why having a desirable size for women called something that indicates nobody is actually there....there is a huge difference between a number and a zero. Sorry, I give up.
Maybe it is regional, or urban vs suburban. I just finished body combat- here strength or fit is in- restriction or dieting is almost gauche. Many women consider breast augmentation to give themselves more curves.
I guarantee you though if I show up I size zero pants no o e is saying "there's nobody!" Anymore than they would be saying mean things about my body we in size "you name it". See, I'm not going to ascribe meaning to a large size like you are doing to a small one.
I understand what you are saying about the size 0 Laurie. Its not about the size, its about the number 0. And its about the industry, not individual peoples comments.
I had a friend in high school who bought a size 0 prom dress, and then had to have it taken in. What the heck is that? How are you smaller than nothing? I remember us all thinking it was really weird and.....somehow wrong.
I also hate how sizing changes depending on brand. I am usually shopping with 3 kids, or on line. I dont have time to fiddle with your stupid sizing charts or try on a million things to find the right size. Why cant we all just have a general accross the board sizing like men do? Drives me crazy!
Again, it has NOTHING to do with the person in the pants. Nobody knows what size someone is wearing anyway.
Originally Posted by Potter75
Why does the industry create a size for women that means they don't exist? I am confused as to why you keep thinking I have an issue with small people. The fashion industry makes its living off making women feel insecure. Creating an aspirational size of ZERO is insidious. Anyway I'm done.
As for fit vs. thin, here I see young women in their 20s who look fit and healthy eating Slim Fast shakes for lunch at their desks. It's a Manhattan thing. The pressure is INTENSE. Also, I work in the entertainment industry, which skews things even further.
A zero has no metaphysical properties threatening existence to me. It's one smaller than a 2 and one bigger than a 00. That's all?
i will say pressure like that has to be maddening and I agree that the industry probably has a lot to do with it- I am sorry to hear that and it does suck.
You and me both, sister! Now I feel judged about my weight AND judged about my feelings about my weight. :P LOL
Originally Posted by bunnyfufu
Anyway, I don't think that fat shaming or skinny shaming is the answer to any of this. I think we should all take a solemn vow to stay off each other's jocks about our body size and shape, and just try to educate and emphasize healthy habits. Shaming anyone is mean and not helpful.
And I feel as though judgement exists for being a small size, so I suppose we are all even :) Just like Blather felt judged about putting up vacation photos I've felt the same thing. It goes all ways and that sucks.
I actually had an upsetting experience just now at the gym. 5 of us were sitting in the cafe and we got Alcohol Shamed. Yep. The on staff nutrionalist came up to us with a chipper "Ladies St. Patties day is right around the corner! Do you have any idea how many calories are in alcohol?" with a handy dandy spreadsheet and informational flyer allllll about it (it included Old E 40's, which made it awesome). I didn't mention the all day pub crawl I had planned and left my informational packet on the table when I left. Down with Booze Shaming!
I think someone should embroider "Down with Booze Shaming" on a pillow. :D