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  1. #41
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    Melis you are totally missing my point about size zero. It has NOTHING to do with the people who are that size. Nothing. They're not empty, they're not too small. There is nothing wrong with them. There is something wrong with an industry that keeps us insecure all the time, changing the numbers of sizes from one place to another, making us feel like we don't deserve nice clothes if we don't have flat stomachs, and creating sizes to the point that people can be a size zero. I just think it should have been called something else. I think the numbers system for women's clothing is bad and I think the industry itself is set up to make us feel constantly insecure and unsteady.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    What the people who are around you look like is HUGE in shaping what you see as "normal" IMO. I don't think that its fair to call someone who is a zero a "nothing" or "empty" or tell them that that isn't a real size or that their size is ego related, any more than it is to call someone names for being a large size. The shaming and recrimination is on both sides of the aisle, IMO.
    I understand what you are getting at. Just wasn't sure where the 2/3 was coming in.

    Weight debates are always fraught with anxiety for me. I hear what you are saying. I agree that shaming goes on both ways. Which kinda makes me think that we should all be aware that shaming is mean.

  3. #43
    Prolific Poster bunnyfufu's Avatar
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    Just to add, that I also get what Laurie is saying about size 0. I don't think that is shaming to a small person.

    Although, it is hurtful when someone discounts your person with a, "What, you're probably a size 2." or "That's the risk of having an adolescent boy's body." Assumptions are hard. I've heard people called a ***** because they can wear a bikini as an adult. I think some people take IQ points off if you are fit. That I've just somehow been lucky. I had 65 lbs to lose after I had my son. I get that it's hard. Because it is a daily discipline.

    With all of that baggage, weight is just hard to talk about in useful, non-confrontational terms.

    Which ultimately is why I don't think shaming is useful. There are things people can do to improve their health but we never get to talking about it because everyone is so defensive. KWIM?

  4. #44
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    After my second was born I had a really hard time losing the weight. I didn't look pregnant, I just looked overweight. But I never felt an ounce of shame from other people. Nobody looked at me with judgment in their eyes. I wasn't treated any differently by strangers (who had no idea I'd just had a baby). The shame I felt came from within. It was my issue with my own body image. I didn't want to be unhealthy or overweight and nobody else had to make me feel crappy about myself. I did that all on my own. I had no resentment about it and didn't blame other people for me being unhappy with my body.

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    I think it goes both ways too and I don't think it's any better to make fun of/comment on people who are skinny. I assume that the fit people I see work hard at it. It's like yoga. . .when I see someone do some amazing thing that I can't do, I don't think "you *****!" or "I suck!". I think "Wow, that is amazing."
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Melis you are totally missing my point about size zero. It has NOTHING to do with the people who are that size. Nothing. They're not empty, they're not too small. There is nothing wrong with them. There is something wrong with an industry that keeps us insecure all the time, changing the numbers of sizes from one place to another, making us feel like we don't deserve nice clothes if we don't have flat stomachs, and creating sizes to the point that people can be a size zero. I just think it should have been called something else. I think the numbers system for women's clothing is bad and I think the industry itself is set up to make us feel constantly insecure and unsteady.
    I've been thinking about this afternoon, trying to understand what you mean, but I just still don't get the anger at the #0. If we started at 10 and went up to 26 someone would be feel that 10 was "nothing" or "empty". Its just a number name. I can't understand anger at a number name any more that I can understand anger or ownership of a word like "marriage". How does the fact that a size zero exists in women's fashion have absolutely anything to do with anyone other than the person who wears a size 0? Most jeans are waistband sized just like mens clothing. But you can't do that with, say, a dress, because there are so many measurements other than just a waist size. So they have sizes. And just like in counting, that number starts at 0 (or 00 at many stores). Do stores vanity size? ABSOLUTELY. J Crew is the worst in that department, if you ask me. Then again, if the average waistline is continually getting larger, shouldn't the size of, a 8 or a 10 be getting larger as well, if that is supposed to be an "average" size? If someone chooses to define themselves by their clothing size ~ well ~ I think that that is a problem that is a lot more pressing than different lines of closing having, say, a 26 be a 0 and a 52 be a 16 at one place and a 24 a zero and 50 a 16 somewhere else (or whatever those #'s would be, I'm making up #'s).

    Lisa, I agree with what you posted. I've felt more judgment or heard more negative comments related to losing weight than gaining it. I also don't give a crap about that judgment.
    Last edited by Potter75; 03-05-2013 at 05:00 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I've been thinking about this afternoon, trying to understand what you mean, but I just still don't get the anger at the #0. If we started at 10 and went up to 26 someone would be feel that 10 was "nothing" or "empty". Its just a number name. I can't understand anger at a number name any more that I can understand anger or ownership of a word like "marriage". How does the fact that a size zero exists in women's fashion have absolutely anything to do with anyone other than the person who wears a size 0? Most jeans are waistband sized just like mens clothing. But you can't do that with, say, a dress, because there are so many measurements other than just a waist size. So they have sizes. And just like in counting, that number starts at 0 (or 00 at many stores). Do stores vanity size? ABSOLUTELY. J Crew is the worst in that department, if you ask me. Then again, if the average waistline is continually getting larger, shouldn't the size of, a 8 or a 10 be getting larger as well, if that is supposed to be an "average" size? If someone chooses to define themselves by their clothing size ~ well ~ I think that that is a problem that is a lot more pressing than different lines of closing having, say, a 26 be a 0 and a 52 be a 16 at one place and a 24 a zero and 50 a 16 somewhere else (or whatever those #'s would be, I'm making up #'s).

    Lisa, I agree with what you posted. I've felt more judgment or heard more negative comments related to losing weight than gaining it. I also don't give a crap about that judgment.
    Whenever I might've been a little underweight or even the few times I've been painfully thin - those were the times I felt the most judged, and it seems as though everyone felt it was perfectly fine to tell me what they thought. "You're so thin", "You need to gain some weight" "You don't look healthy" blah blah blah. Yep, definitely the most judged I've ever been about my body. I don't get why that's okay with some people. The same people probably wouldn't walk up to an overweight friend, co-worker or relative and just say, totally unsolicited, "You're too heavy", "You need to lose a few pounds" or "Your weight isn't healthy". I've been the most 'shamed' by others as a thin person. It's like ooh, don't mention anything to the overweight person, they're so sensitive about their weight and it's just downright mean toshame them and all that. But it's perfectly acceptable to give your (general) two cents about someone who is on the thin side. The irony is so thick.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I've been thinking about this afternoon, trying to understand what you mean, but I just still don't get the anger at the #0. If we started at 10 and went up to 26 someone would be feel that 10 was "nothing" or "empty". Its just a number name.
    I keep having this hilarious memory from my Catholic HS days. There was a nun, Sister Mary Katherine, aka the White Witch. She was ablaze with crazy, electric white-woman afro, talked to plants. . . no, I mean she sincerely apologized to the ficus when she whirled in and knocked the podium into it at the beginning of algebra class one day. Tall and thin and twitchy and strange woman. Ironically, she was very likely a size 0 as well.

    That day, we were having a deep discovery of the number zero and it's larger role in the mathematics cosmology. Like you, she insisted that it held an important place. As a freshman in a plaid skirt, I sassed her that it was nothing. Or at least it signified nothing. Our argument became legendary in a lunchroom way.

    Now, I think we are both right.

    And although the White Witch has long gone onto the eternal algebra classroom in the sky, if we ever meet again, I will give her a big old hug and think that we will laugh our skinny butts off.
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  9. #49
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    When I was obese, the only shaming/judgement came from me. No one ever made me feel like I was worthless. The funny thing is that since I've lost weight I've had more negative comments from people around me. Like my MIL telling me I'm so skinny, with *that* tone...and my mom going on and on about how I won't look healthy if I lose any more weight (which I'm not planning on, but still...should be my decision).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnyfufu View Post
    Like you, she insisted that it held an important place. .

    Just to clarify, i have no feelings on the number 0. That is my point. Any feelings that an individual may project ONTO the number zero would be replaced with another loathed or resented number if clothing manufacturers removed the dread pirate 0 from shelves in lieu of another starting place.

    We had a teacher like that as well, her name was Mrs. Bell. She was God Awful. She used to take prayer requests then be praying 2 minutes later and have LOST her prayer request book. So she would be walking around in the middle in her prayer in a panic trying to find her book while interjecting all of these ahhh, annnnnnnd, oh Father.....ummmmm.......shuffling around papers while we all tried to stifle giggles, which of course makes one have to laugh harder. Then she would get angry at the entire class for laughing at her. It wouldn't be that funny if it only happened once or twice...but it happened once or twice a week with her. Scary.
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