Without getting into a whole full blown abortion debate, try to imagine the point of view that a baby is a baby no matter if it is still inside you or if it was already born and 1 year old. Pretend for a moment that you believed this. Would you be ok with someone killing that one year old baby for any reason? If you think of it from that point of view, the comments do not seem as extreme. If you truly think abortion is murder, it will not matter to you the reason why it is happening, you would still not agree with it.
I am not trying to change anyone's mind on abortion, or whether it should be legal. I know that is not going to happen on this debate board. Everyone has their own passionate view on this. I just want you to see where the person might be coming from.
I'm going to step in here and say while I don't relate to the extreme conservatives views on abortion, i am going to agree with Gloria and dispute this idea that Mourdock's comment meant God intended the rape.
To assume that because God would 'interfere' and intend a baby, does not logically follow that he would initially intend the rape.
We have free will, and we exercise free will, and that is what can cause the rape to occur in the first place, yet God could theoretically have intentions/interventions of a baby coming from it, knowing that the rape would happen, due to the free will given to man.
Lots of Christians believe that God does not pre-plan everything and gives us free will to use for good and for evil, but could intervene in some way to intend a baby.
I only stand up for this, because its a huge assumption to suggest the 'only way his comments could work is if god intended the rape'
a)that brands your vision of religoius theory onto someone elses and assumes things about their faith (dems and liberals aren't supposed to like that kind of thing!)
b)as i tried to explain, there are definitely other spiritual explanations that make sense that don't include God intending rape upon women.
to insist that he meant the most offensive possibility sounds a bit narrow minded...or intentionally trying to find problems. (Because both parties do this all the time to make the other party look worse)
I really do think its wrong to take what he said and say "oh he definitely meant god intended for the woman to be raped"
I think we can find all sorts of things wrong with the conservative view on abortion without twisting this into something it wasn't.
This comment is no comparison to other BS spewed by some conservatives about abortion and rape IMO.
Last edited by KimPossible; 10-25-2012 at 12:11 PM.
To me though, 1 year old child is a person and gets rights of personhood. Embryo/fetus does not and that's okay to me. Not just the abortion stance at all (I've said it before..I would love the need or want of an abortion to end) but because everything we as pregnant women do that is or could be viewed as negative could have very bad consequences!
Last edited by Jessica80; 10-25-2012 at 02:51 PM.
I guess I don't understand how God could intend the pregnancy but not the rape. The baby has to get in there somehow (unless we're talking immaculate conception.)
Are you saying that god lets the rapist rape the woman and then gives her a baby as some kind of consolation prize? I just don't understand how the pregnancy gets divorced from the rape if you believe that god intended for the pregnancy happen.
Edit: I'm seriously not trying to twist his words to make him look bad. I will agree that I don't think he was meaning to say god wants anybody to get raped. I just don't understand, like, from a biological standpoint, how the two can be separated. The only way the baby got there was through the rape, you know?
Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 10-25-2012 at 02:29 PM.
I'm not saying you have to *like* the explanation or believe the explanation yourself....but people should try to understand it before assuming someone thinks God wants women to be raped.
Cecilia Marie 1/10/10
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It just literally does not make sense to me to say that god wanted the baby but not the rape, because the baby is a biological consequence of the rape. Like, I can totally get behind the idea that god gives us free will, and so if someone rapes a person, they were using free will and it's not that God wanted it. I'm 100% following that point of view. It's just the addition of "but God did mean for the baby that is the result of the rape" that is throwing me off. Like, the baby wouldn't physically exist without the rape, so how can God have meant for one to happen, but not the other?
I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm trying to understand the thought process of how god can want the effect without the cause.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
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Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013
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Gloria~I would actually interpret your prayer to mean..."God, I know someone is going to die....if that person has a heart and is an organ donor...would you please allow that to go to my son". Not that you want someone to die.
To this though, it would be like taking your prayer example and saying...well this woman really really wanted a baby...God just gave it to her in the form of rape. That's awful.
In the pregnancy/rape scenario, the baby literally can't be conceived without the rape. Like, it's physically impossible.
I would also think that if there was an all knowing and all loving god that was giving out pregnancies to rape victims to give them something good to come from something awful, he would (in his loving wisdom) know which women would want to keep a child and which would find being forced to keep a pregnancy that is a constant reminder of her rape to be torturous. It doesn't make sense for a loving god to step in and give a pregnancy to a raped woman when he knows that she will find the pregnancy to be a continuation of the rape.
Rape is TERRIBLE and I am not trying to minimize that. It can be turned into good though. The beautiful baby that comes from it. Or perhaps somewhere years down the line you have the opportunity to meet someone who has gone through a rape, and is so traumatised she wants to kill herself. You use your life experience to talk to her and give her comfort, and she therefore decides not to kill herself. 10 years later she finds the cure to all cancer. Yes, it was painful for the person to have that rape, but it was still used for good, and it still could have been part of God's plan.
Not sure if that made sense or not, but I hope you get what I am trying to say.