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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I would also think that if there was an all knowing and all loving god that was giving out pregnancies to rape victims to give them something good to come from something awful, he would (in his loving wisdom) know which women would want to keep a child and which would find being forced to keep a pregnancy that is a constant reminder of her rape to be torturous. It doesn't make sense for a loving god to step in and give a pregnancy to a raped woman when he knows that she will find the pregnancy to be a continuation of the rape.
    As a loving parent, do you never do anything that causes your son to feel pain? Never allow shots to be given? Never remove a splinter?never discipline?

    ~Bonita~

  2. #72
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    I believe in God but I don't believe that is how He "sets things up" so to speak. So no, I don't think God is handing me a rape to show me something.

  3. #73
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    No matter how hard I might try, I could never equate your examples of pain to rape, Bonita. To me, it is inconceiveable that anyone could put the pain of a sliver and the anguish of rape in the same ballpark. Please correct me if I'm interpreting what you said in the wrong context.

  4. #74
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    Oh not at all. That is not what I meant. I apologize. Rape is a bad terrible thing. I can not imagine the pain it must be. I just believe that God can take that terrible bad awful thing and make good come from it. And that just because God does allow bad awful things to happen, does not mean that he is not a loving God.

    The comparison was that we as parents let things happen to our children that they might not understand, and might be painful to them because they do not understand.

    ~Bonita~

  5. #75
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    No matter how hard I might try, I could never equate your examples of pain to rape, Bonita. To me, it is inconceiveable that anyone could put the pain of a sliver and the anguish of rape in the same ballpark. Please correct me if I'm interpreting what you said in the wrong context.
    Yes. A shot is one thing. Making him eat his vegetables. Taking him in for a painful but necessary medical procedure, sure. I just can't equate that to rape. Like I said to Kim, I can get behind the idea that if there is a god, he let's bad things happen because humans have free will. But the idea that he would actually use something like rape as a tool, like fully intend for it to happen....I can't get on board with that.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  6. #76
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    I feel that this would be very difficult debate to have. Every single person on this board is going to have a different opinion on who God is, what level of involvement he has in our lives, and "Why do bad things happen to good people?" This applies to more than just rape. 9/11, miscarriages, death of family members, genocide, war...

    ~Bonita~

  7. #77
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Yes. A shot is one thing. Making him eat his vegetables. Taking him in for a painful but necessary medical procedure, sure. I just can't equate that to rape. Like I said to Kim, I can get behind the idea that if there is a god, he let's bad things happen because humans have free will. But the idea that he would actually use something like rape as a tool, like fully intend for it to happen....I can't get on board with that.
    Ok let's try this. If you could see the future and absolutely knew your son was going to rape someone when he grew up, would you still get pregnant and have him? If you did know and still allowed him to be born would we say that you intended for him to rape someone?
    God knows ahead of time that people are going to do bad things, but he still allows that person to make the decision. God may know that man is going to rape someone and allow that to happen, that doesn't mean he wants the man to make that decision, but if he didn't allow it to happen then wouldn't be free will. If the man has free will to commit the rape, how is God responsible that it happens to result in a pregnancy? That is just a fact of nature. It still has no bearing on the fact that the child is a completely seperate being, loved by God and not to blame for how he was conceived. No matter how that baby was created it is still a person.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
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  8. #78
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    If I knew ahead of time that my unborn child would rape or murder. Then yes, I would not have that child.

  9. #79
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Ok let's try this. If you could see the future and absolutely knew your son was going to rape someone when he grew up, would you still get pregnant and have him? If you did know and still allowed him to be born would we say that you intended for him to rape someone?
    God knows ahead of time that people are going to do bad things, but he still allows that person to make the decision. God may know that man is going to rape someone and allow that to happen, that doesn't mean he wants the man to make that decision, but if he didn't allow it to happen then wouldn't be free will. If the man has free will to commit the rape, how is God responsible that it happens to result in a pregnancy? That is just a fact of nature. It still has no bearing on the fact that the child is a completely seperate being, loved by God and not to blame for how he was conceived. No matter how that baby was created it is still a person.
    I agree with the bolded; it falls in line with the argument that god gives people free will. It makes sense. Obviously I don't believe it just because I don't believe in god, but I can certainly see the logic and agree it is logical.

    My problem is that the guy said that if you get pregnant from a rape, that is pregnancy is something that God intended to happen.

    Meaning, that god IS responsible for the pregnancy, it was his will, right? That's why I don't get the logic behind what that guy said.

    To be fair, I honestly don't believe that guy was trying to say something awful like god wants women to get raped. I just think he was being illogical.

    Either god intended for the pregnancy to happen (which means he kind of had to intend for the rape, since physically the baby is a consequence of the rape and would not have existed otherwise) or god did not specifically intend for the pregnancy because he did not intend for the rape. He may have let it happen because of free will, but he didn't specifically, like, will it to happen.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

  10. #80
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I agree with the bolded; it falls in line with the argument that god gives people free will. It makes sense. Obviously I don't believe it just because I don't believe in god, but I can certainly see the logic and agree it is logical.

    My problem is that the guy said that if you get pregnant from a rape, that is pregnancy is something that God intended to happen.

    Meaning, that god IS responsible for the pregnancy, it was his will, right? That's why I don't get the logic behind what that guy said.

    To be fair, I honestly don't believe that guy was trying to say something awful like god wants women to get raped. I just think he was being illogical.

    Either god intended for the pregnancy to happen (which means he kind of had to intend for the rape, since physically the baby is a consequence of the rape and would not have existed otherwise) or god did not specifically intend for the pregnancy because he did not intend for the rape. He may have let it happen because of free will, but he didn't specifically, like, will it to happen.
    You have to understand that the whole question was on the topic of abortion. He didn't mean that God intended for the rape or pregancy to happen, just that no matter how the pregnancy happened God intended for that child to be born. He said that every child is a gift from God no matter how they were conceived. God knows every one of us before we are even conceived. Just as he knows a child that is conceived out of rape, it is still a child of God.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

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