Fired for religious beliefs? - Page 5
+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 151
Like Tree47Likes

Thread: Fired for religious beliefs?

  1. #41
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    As for the bakery, there are laws that you can't deny service to people based on sexual orientation. You can't refuse to rent an apartment to someone, you can't refuse to let them in your store or your movie theater, the cake falls under those laws. You can't refuse people's business based on sexual orientation, the same way you can't refuse their business based on their ethnicity. It's discrimination.

    If you have prejudices about race or homosexuality or what have you, then come up with a fake legal reason for your refusal, don't tell people outright that you're discriminating, because it's against the law.
    Being against your religious beliefs is not a fake legal reason. They didn't refuse to serve gay people, they refused to serve a gay wedding. Two different things. I'm pretty sure they didn't ask someone who came in for a birthday cake if they were gay.

    Its just like a kosher deli being told they have to serve ham.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 09-16-2013 at 12:47 PM.
    Rivergallery likes this.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  2. #42
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Being against your religious beliefs is not a fake legal reason. They didn't refuse to serve gay people, they refused to serve a gay wedding. Two different things. I'm pretty sure they didn't ask someone who came in for a birthday cake if they were gay.

    Its just like a kosher deli being told they have to serve ham.
    Seriously? Ham is not people. You can't discriminate against ham.

    The bakery can choose what flavor of cakes they serve. They can't break the law by choosing not to serve people. Again, if it were against their religion to serve black people, would it be okay for them to not serve black people? I don't know how you can try to break out "not serving a gay wedding is different from not serving a gay person." Really? So not serving a black wedding would be different from not serving a black person? How so? The wedding didn't place the order, the person did.

    Going back to whether this guy could be fired for comments that he made before he was on the job, I agree with Laurie that they should have done their research better, but the bottom line is that he is (trying to be) a celebrity. They are always in the public eye, and their image is what makes them a celebrity. I think he would have been fired for anything that the network deemed inappropriate for the image that they are trying to project to their viewers - it doesn't matter if he did it while he was actually on air. Celebrities are basically never off air.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

  3. #43
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Being against your religious beliefs is not a fake legal reason. They didn't refuse to serve gay people, they refused to serve a gay wedding. Two different things. I'm pretty sure they didn't ask someone who came in for a birthday cake if they were gay.

    Its just like a kosher deli being told they have to serve ham.
    No, it's a like a kosher deli that serves ham to one group telling another they can't have it.

    They absolutely refused to serve gay people, based on the fact that they are gay.

    And discriminating against customers because of your religion is an ILLEGAL reason to not serve somebody. They should have made up a reason -- like "oh we're too booked then" -- instead of admitting they wanted to illegally discriminate.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  4. #44
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Seriously? Ham is not people. You can't discriminate against ham.

    The bakery can choose what flavor of cakes they serve. They can't break the law by choosing not to serve people. Again, if it were against their religion to serve black people, would it be okay for them to not serve black people? I don't know how you can try to break out "not serving a gay wedding is different from not serving a gay person." Really? So not serving a black wedding would be different from not serving a black person? How so? The wedding didn't place the order, the person did.
    It is absolutely different. Again they are not refusing to serve black people or gay people, they are refusing to cater to a specific event that they disagree with for religious reasons. Should it be against the law for a Jewish baker to refuse make a Christmas cake? It has nothing to do with who is placing the order, and everything to do with the event the cake is for. If I am a Christian who believes gay marriage is wrong I should not have to go against my conscience and condone the event by contributing to it or else go out of business. That is religious discrimination.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  5. #45
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is absolutely different. Again they are not refusing to serve black people or gay people, they are refusing to cater to a specific event that they disagree with for religious reasons. Should it be against the law for a Jewish baker to refuse make a Christmas cake? It has nothing to do with who is placing the order, and everything to do with the event the cake is for. If I am a Christian who believes gay marriage is wrong I should not have to go against my conscience and condone the event by contributing to it or else go out of business. That is religious discrimination.
    They make wedding cakes for weddings. They refused to do so, in this case, because the married couple is gay. How is that not discrimination?

    A Jewish baker doesn't make a Christmas cake (whatever that is) for ANYONE. It's more like a Jewish baker refusing to sell rugelach to Christians when he/she is selling it to others.

    A Jewish baker can't refuse to sell someone challah because they're Christians who want to serve it at Easter brunch. That's illegal.
    Alissa_Sal and fuchsiasky like this.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  6. #46
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    9,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Except that he didn't say it on the job. It was something he said MONTHS before he was even hired and didn't have anything to do with his job. An atheist speaking out against gay people is a whole different thing, because they wouldn't be saying it because of their religious beliefs as he was.

    It's the same exact thing as the mayor telling Chick-Fil-A that they can't open a business because the owner doesn't believe in gay marriage.
    Exactly! Funny thing is the same people up in arms about this don't care that a former KKK member is A senator in their political party.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  7. #47
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    They make wedding cakes for weddings. They refused to do so, in this case, because the married couple is gay. How is that not discrimination?

    A Jewish baker doesn't make a Christmas cake (whatever that is) for ANYONE. It's more like a Jewish baker refusing to sell rugelach to Christians when he/she is selling it to others.

    A Jewish baker can't refuse to sell someone challah because they're Christians who want to serve it at Easter brunch. That's illegal.
    Exactly. If they don't sell wedding cakes to anyone, that is not discrimination, they just don't sell wedding cakes. If they will sell a wedding cake to one person but not another person, that is discrimination. Your Jewish baker presumably wouldn't sell a Christmas cake to anyone...that's not discrimination, he just doesn't sell Christmas cakes.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

  8. #48
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Exactly! Funny thing is the same people up in arms about this don't care that a former KKK member is A senator in their political party.
    Which people are these? I don't belong to any political party. I can't even vote in this country.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

  9. #49
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    They make wedding cakes for weddings. They refused to do so, in this case, because the married couple is gay. How is that not discrimination?
    It is not discrimination because according to their religious beliefs it is not a wedding, since a marriage is between a man and a woman. Therefore they should be able to refuse to supply a wedding cake to an event they think is wrong and not a wedding. It is discrimination to force them to do something that is against their religious beliefs. There is absolutely no reason that they would have of forcing their business on someone except for purposely hurting them and persecuting them because or their religious beliefs. If it had been me I would have supplied the cake and put a black frosting X across it and let them pay for it.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  10. #50
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    23,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is not discrimination because according to their religious beliefs it is not a wedding, since a marriage is between a man and a woman. Therefore they should be able to refuse to supply a wedding cake to an event they think is wrong and not a wedding. It is discrimination to force them to do something that is against their religious beliefs. There is absolutely no reason that they would have of forcing their business on someone except for purposely hurting them and persecuting them because or their religious beliefs. If it had been me I would have supplied the cake and put a black frosting X across it and let them pay for it.
    It is not discrimination to not allow vendors to illegally discriminate.

    Ask the people who refused service to black people during the sit-ins. I'm sure they would have told you God was on their side, and that it was against their conscience and their religion to serve black people at the same counter where white people sit.

    It's nice that you want to ruin someone's wedding cake, though, and publicly make them feel crappy about being in love and forming a union and a family. Is that protected under your religious beliefs too?

    And no, if you're hired to make a wedding cake, you're hired to make a wedding cake. If that's your business, you do it. What if I wanted a wedding cake for a party that wasn't a wedding? They still have to sell it to me. It's not up to the bakers to decide if someone's event is legitimate, just like the Jewish baker who makes challah can't say that Easter is a made-up nonexistent holiday because Jesus didn't rise from the grave and refuse to sell bread to someone who orders it.
    Laurie, mom to:
    Nathaniel ( 10 ) and Juliet ( 7 )




    Baking Adventures In A Messy Kitchen (blog)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
v -->

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Sitemap | Terms & Conditions