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  1. #61
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Last edited by Spacers; 09-16-2013 at 03:21 PM.

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Well, this whole thing goes back to our difference of opinion about whether your freedom of religion extends to pushing your religion onto other people. Personally, I think that freedom of religion means that if gay marriage is against your religion, no one should ever ever force you to get gay married. But you don't get to then turn around and say to somone else "You can't get married, or I will discriminate against you." Your freedom of religion only extends to you. Your fist ends where my face begins.
    So how is forcing someone to cater your event not forcing your beliefs on someone else? You are saying I believe gay marriage is right and if you don't agree with me and make me a wedding cake I am going to destroy your business. Yes I do think that is not only forcing your beliefs on someone else, but even FORCING them to participate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So how is forcing someone to cater your event not forcing your beliefs on someone else? You are saying I believe gay marriage is right and if you don't agree with me and make me a wedding cake I am going to destroy your business. Yes I do think that is not only forcing your beliefs on someone else, but even FORCING them to participate.
    They didn't destroy their business, they sued them for illegal discrimination.

    Nobody has to agree.

    All they have to do is treat their gay customer like the rest of their customers. The bakers don't have to come to the wedding or go to a gay pride parade or do anything except make a cake like they do for their other customers.

    I may think someone's religion is a lot of hooey but if they want to buy fancy shoes at my shoe store for a confirmation, I don't say "sorry stop forcing your beliefs on me."

    If you want to save your business, follow the laws and don't discriminate.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    They didn't destroy their business, they sued them for illegal discrimination.

    Nobody has to agree.

    All they have to do is treat their gay customer like the rest of their customers. The bakers don't have to come to the wedding or go to a gay pride parade or do anything except make a cake like they do for their other customers.
    Right, and that photographer didn't have to go to a gay wedding to photograph it either, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Right, and that photographer didn't have to go to a gay wedding to photograph it either, right?
    Well at least you've given up on your bakers.

    I think the photographer is in a different situation, because they are being asked to go to an event that makes them uncomfortable. If I were a photographer, I would want to be able to refuse to photograph a boxing match, for example. I actually think that falls into a separate category.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Well at least you've given up on your bakers.

    I think the photographer is in a different situation, because they are being asked to go to an event that makes them uncomfortable. If I were a photographer, I would want to be able to refuse to photograph a boxing match, for example. I actually think that falls into a separate category.
    No I haven't given up on it. I still think it is wrong and religious discrimination. I can only repeat the same thing so many times and it becomes a little redundant. Even if the baker doesn't attend the event they are still participating in it by making the food.
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    I doubt that any gay couple is going to force someone to cater their wedding. (What's that in the soup? Don't ask!) But if you advertise that you cater to weddings, then you need to cater to ALL weddings, and if you refuse, then you absolutely should be sued for discrimination. If your religious beliefs are such that you will refuse to serve any certain segment of the population, then you need to be in a different business. You make cakes, you shouldn't care one whit about the people buying them or for what reason. You rent rooms at an inn, it's none of your business what the people you rent to do behind that closed door. Your idea that you have the right to bring your religion into play to find an issue with every single thing in the world is ridiculous. And kind of scary.
    Last edited by Spacers; 09-16-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Well at least you've given up on your bakers.

    I think the photographer is in a different situation, because they are being asked to go to an event that makes them uncomfortable. If I were a photographer, I would want to be able to refuse to photograph a boxing match, for example. I actually think that falls into a separate category.
    I get what you're saying Laurie, but I don't know where you draw the line. I mean again, if weddings in general make you uncomfortable, then you don't become a wedding photographer. Same thing with boxing matches - if they make you uncomfortable then don't become a sports photographer or at least don't do boxing matches. I think it's a lot muddier when you say "this wedding makes me uncomfortable, but this wedding does not...." But I will agree that at least with a wedding photographer you are actually attending and witnessing the event that you are uncomfortable with, so to me they have more of a reason to get a free pass. A wedding cake bakery? Gimme a break. You don't even usually put names on wedding cakes! It's not like you would typically have to write "Congrats Bob and Steve!" Functionally, it is a cake just like every other cake.
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  9. #69
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I get what you're saying Laurie, but I don't know where you draw the line. I mean again, if weddings in general make you uncomfortable, then you don't become a wedding photographer. Same thing with boxing matches - if they make you uncomfortable then don't become a sports photographer or at least don't do boxing matches. I think it's a lot muddier when you say "this wedding makes me uncomfortable, but this wedding does not...." But I will agree that at least with a wedding photographer you are actually attending and witnessing the event that you are uncomfortable with, so to me they have more of a reason to get a free pass. A wedding cake bakery? Gimme a break. You don't even usually put names on wedding cakes! It's not like you would typically have to write "Congrats Bob and Steve!" Functionally, it is a cake just like every other cake.
    I guess you wouldn't have to special order a topper with 2 men or 2 women on top? I don't think that would be something you would stock for a normal wedding.

    This baker not only faces losing his business but actually going to jail.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013...r-gay-wedding/
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 09-16-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I get what you're saying Laurie, but I don't know where you draw the line. I mean again, if weddings in general make you uncomfortable, then you don't become a wedding photographer. Same thing with boxing matches - if they make you uncomfortable then don't become a sports photographer or at least don't do boxing matches. I think it's a lot muddier when you say "this wedding makes me uncomfortable, but this wedding does not...." But I will agree that at least with a wedding photographer you are actually attending and witnessing the event that you are uncomfortable with, so to me they have more of a reason to get a free pass. A wedding cake bakery? Gimme a break. You don't even usually put names on wedding cakes! It's not like you would typically have to write "Congrats Bob and Steve!" Functionally, it is a cake just like every other cake.
    I just think there's a difference between ATTENDING an event and preparing something for it in advance.
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