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  1. #21
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Except that instead of paying that $23,000 to the government, that small business owner could put that money back into the business and hire someone. That $23,000 could pay a salary or at least part of one. Most small business owners are putting that profit back into their company.
    Poor argument. If he hired someone new or put money back into the business, then it would be a legitimate business expense that would lower his taxable income in the first place. Taxes are paid on net income, that is, after expenses. If business is so good that he has half a million in net taxable income and he didn't need another employee to get that half a million of net taxable income in the first place, then suck it up over another percentage point or two to help out the entire country and not just yourself.

    ETA: most small business that I've worked with or for over the years have always looked at their profit statements in the last month or two of the year and specifically plan some expenses if it looks like they will have "too much" profit. Stock up on supplies, make a charitable contribution, pay down student loans, maybe even hire a contractor to finish something that you don't have the manpower to finish before year's end. One firm bought a bunch of new office furniture they were going to get next year anyway, put it on a credit card, it was $15,000 in expense in December which reduced the owner's taxable income and he didn't have to pay for it until the bill came in January. People do it all the time, especially if they'd had a particularly good end of the year and haven't paid in enough in estimated taxes.
    Last edited by Spacers; 10-05-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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  2. #22
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    I need to do a little more research, because how you are explaining it was not how it was originally explained to me.

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  3. #23
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Maybe your friend doesn't understand his own taxes. Sadly a lot of people don't. Which is why tax accountants make a lot of money. I hated doing taxes which is why I don't do them anymore, but I *do* understand them very well.

    Now if your friend's business is set up as a corporation, which legally is no longer a "small business," then the company's tax rate is currently a flat 35% no matter what the income level. Obama proposes to reduce that to 28% for most corporations, 25% for manfacturing, and Romney is proposing to reduce it to 25% for all corporations. Some large corporations have multiple tax loopholes that allow them to pay far less than 35%. Obama proposes to close some of those; Romney does not. I suppose if your friend's corporation qualifies for a tax loophole that Obama would close, they might not like it, but that's a far cry from claiming to be a small business being squeezed to death by taxes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Poor argument. If he hired someone new or put money back into the business, then it would be a legitimate business expense that would lower his taxable income in the first place. Taxes are paid on net income, that is, after expenses. If business is so good that he has half a million in net taxable income and he didn't need another employee to get that half a million of net taxable income in the first place, then suck it up over another percentage point or two to help out the entire country and not just yourself.
    I disagree, that is how business expands... by taking the profits and rolling it back into the business. I'd much rather that money go back into the company to pay another salary than for the government to take it and waste it. Of that $23,000 probably $1,000 will probably be used on anything meaningful, the other $22,000 will go to government overhead and waste. I'd rather that salary go to a private employee than a government employee.
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    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    I guess I don't really understand how Romney "won." Don't get me wrong, I don't think Obama "won" either; it's more that I think that there are very rarely clear cut winners in debates (except for me, of course, I win all the time...) I think they both said their peice, and it's up to the public which message they liked better, soooo....not really sure what would make one a winner over the other....

    I was reading some fact check stuff yesterday, and honestly it made me a little mad at both of them because after having read it I feel like they were both intentionally misleading about the other guy's position which is just irritating....like, win on the strength of your own position, not by trying to mislead everybody about the other guy. So I wasn't a fan of that, and they both did it multiple times.

    In the end, no, it didn't make me change my mind about anything. I agree with Kim that if the debate was the only thing I knew about Romney, I wouldn't be as opposed to him as I am. He seemed reasonable and passionate, although I still wouldn't vote for him because I still disagree with his approach. I thought he handled himself well and came off as articulate and fairly knowledgeable, although again, no real specifics and I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the way he steadfastly refused to admit to the Medicare voucher thing by just keep repeating the part about how it won't effect any current retirees. Like stop dodging outright questions by answering a different question!!!! But that goes back to my whole annoyance over the candidates refusing to just play it straight, and Obama did it on a few things too. Politics as usual, I suppose.

    I didn't think that Obama came off as "exhausted" or unprepared. We watched the whole thing from start to finish after T went to bed, and I thought he came off well too. I'm not sure what I missed, but I know a lot of people on both sides had that impression. In all, I thought they both handled themselves well, honestly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I guess I don't really understand how Romney "won." Don't get me wrong, I don't think Obama "won" either; it's more that I think that there are very rarely clear cut winners in debates (except for me, of course, I win all the time...) I think they both said their peice, and it's up to the public which message they liked better, soooo....not really sure what would make one a winner over the other....

    I was reading some fact check stuff yesterday, and honestly it made me a little mad at both of them because after having read it I feel like they were both intentionally misleading about the other guy's position which is just irritating....like, win on the strength of your own position, not by trying to mislead everybody about the other guy. So I wasn't a fan of that, and they both did it multiple times.

    In the end, no, it didn't make me change my mind about anything. I agree with Kim that if the debate was the only thing I knew about Romney, I wouldn't be as opposed to him as I am. He seemed reasonable and passionate, although I still wouldn't vote for him because I still disagree with his approach. I thought he handled himself well and came off as articulate and fairly knowledgeable, although again, no real specifics and I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the way he steadfastly refused to admit to the Medicare voucher thing by just keep repeating the part about how it won't effect any current retirees. Like stop dodging outright questions by answering a different question!!!! But that goes back to my whole annoyance over the candidates refusing to just play it straight, and Obama did it on a few things too. Politics as usual, I suppose.

    I didn't think that Obama came off as "exhausted" or unprepared. We watched the whole thing from start to finish after T went to bed, and I thought he came off well too. I'm not sure what I missed, but I know a lot of people on both sides had that impression. In all, I thought they both handled themselves well, honestly.
    Oh I know! I can't imagine how much ignorance effected the outcomes of elections in the past.

    We have a prop on our ballot for November that will raise sales tax 1/4%. That's 25 cents on $100. The commercial I heard on the radio yesterday was a couple lamenting how bad things are being out of work and the state wants to raise sales tax to the "highest in the nation." No mention that it would raise it 25 cents on $100. Just that you should vote no because our sales tax will go up. There are other things in the prop that they made no mention of. It's very misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    LOL and Obama wasn't?
    Why is that funny? Obama interrupted Leher and made a few jokes, but Romney came across as downright rude. I don't know, maybe it was the tone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Why is that funny? Obama interrupted Leher and made a few jokes, but Romney came across as downright rude. I don't know, maybe it was the tone.
    The pompous tone.

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    I think the debates are really just about being on television. You can't cover your true concrete plans when you've been allotted two minutes. To me, they both just tried to look smarter and better than the other and look good on tv, and that's what it was about. Honestly I felt like they agreed more than they disagreed, and neither really offered up any concrete, useful information.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Poor argument. If he hired someone new or put money back into the business, then it would be a legitimate business expense that would lower his taxable income in the first place. Taxes are paid on net income, that is, after expenses. If business is so good that he has half a million in net taxable income and he didn't need another employee to get that half a million of net taxable income in the first place, then suck it up over another percentage point or two to help out the entire country and not just yourself.

    ETA: most small business that I've worked with or for over the years have always looked at their profit statements in the last month or two of the year and specifically plan some expenses if it looks like they will have "too much" profit. Stock up on supplies, make a charitable contribution, pay down student loans, maybe even hire a contractor to finish something that you don't have the manpower to finish before year's end. One firm bought a bunch of new office furniture they were going to get next year anyway, put it on a credit card, it was $15,000 in expense in December which reduced the owner's taxable income and he didn't have to pay for it until the bill came in January. People do it all the time, especially if they'd had a particularly good end of the year and haven't paid in enough in estimated taxes.
    Don't ALL those purchases/ expenses boost the economy?
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