And people also like football. Do you really think that people would stop going to their kids or friends football games to hang out and socialize if they couldn't have a hot dog and soda? People said that people would stop going out to the bars if they had to stop smoking too....and that ended up not being true. People like what they like indeed, but they can also be accommodating if they like other things too. Like socializing, competitive sports and supporting their kids. Its not all about the junk food. And if it is, it shouldn't be.Knowing the football fans in my family and the kinds of places I've been around growing up, I can't see Hummus ever going over with them. People like what they like.
So the consequence is you might not eat nachos as often if they aren't so readily available...or if you really wanted them badly enough, you would go get them. When we had the debate about the smaller cup sizes in NYC i posted an article that talked about america's obesity problem. Part of what it stated was that we live in a saturated market, a social and living environment where it is easier to get junk and sugar than it is to get an apple. People like to talk about how healthy they eat at home, but maybe home isn't the problem. Maybe its the impulse counters at the front of stores, and the concession stands at sports games and the quick mart at the gas station and the 9 million other places where its easy to grab a soda or a hot dog or whatever. Maybe Portland's school district doesn't want to be a part of that saturated market. I think thats admirable.Like Gloria said, I'll eat nachos there but I'm not going to go out and buy nachos to bring home.
Okay, i love a good hamburger but there is no way you are honestly going to try to argue with me that a hamburger is a healthy choice. Corn fed ground beef? There is nothing wrong with a hamburger once in a while....but lets not kid ourselves here. Its not a healthy food choice.And for the most part there is nothing wrong with a lot of the food if they just tweak it a little bit. There is nothing wrong with eating a hamburger if it's a real hamburger and cooked on a grill and not the size of the stadium.
Sure, unbuttered unsalted popcorn is not bad. Is that really all it takes to make people happy? Just bring back a bag of popcorn. Easy...sold on me. I'm not saying it HAS to be hummus and it HAS to be string cheese. I'm just saying it doesn't HAVE to be junk.There's nothing wrong with popcorn as long as it's not drenched in butter.
Okay we are getting a little nit picky here. I thought the issue was junk food vs no junk food. Not "you have the wrong kind of healthier food" I don't want to debate the merits of hummus specifically really. I just had to reassure you that closer to where this is happening, people might eat it more than where you are now. I just went to a wedding this past weekend here....and they had a huge veggie platter with hummus. Actually, the wedding i went to before this one did too, in CT. Whats wrong with teaching our kids that its a more normal food to eat?These things can be healthy and maybe it can even show people how the traditional junkie sounding food is not so junkie if prepared a little better.
Why you do want to maintain this idea of burgers fries hot dogs and soda needs to be 'normal'. Kids in high school, seems like an excellent place to expose kids to alternatives, and not just sneaky food meant to remind you of junk food. But really healthy choices (Fresh veggies are going to be a hundred times better for you than a nasty over processed chicken hot dog any day). Why are we poo pooing this? I think we have to question what it is we are actually trying to hold on to here and for what purpose, vs. what small things we can do everywhere in life to build a healthier nation. I don't think nostalgia and tradition are great reasons to teach our kids the same eating habits that we have now. Look where they have gotten us.
So healthier food is okay as long as it mimics junk food. And isn't too 'weird'. Thats a different argument than what you were saying before. Before it sounded like you said it was over regulation simply because the traditional junk food wasn't available. I completely disagree with that and I mildly disagree with the notion that healthier options have to look like our junk food favorites. But i could see how they might have their place in the mix at least.The fries..they can be baked instead of fried. They don't have to be so dramatic about the change and offer food that is really out of the ball park in comparison.
I know she's already said this but her point is, you go to a place like that (or any place) and they just may not have what you want. I will say, i was just at WDW recently and if you want something fast and quick and cheap (relatively speaking) your healthy options are slim. If you want to eat three meals at a sit down restaurant, you might fair better throughout the day. But i digress.Jessica you may or may not find cabbage soup at WDW, but you will find tons of very normal foods. They have large food courts where you can eat just about any kind of normal everyday food and as well more special food. You get lots of (expensive) choices. Then there are other restaurants that offer foods of different cultures.
Last edited by KimPossible; 08-22-2012 at 11:33 PM.
I can't seem to get my "I care" going on this. A school can serve/not serve whatever they want. Sales might go down though.
As an aside, I have never had hummas before. I am pretty sure also it has never been offered anywhere I have ever been. Not sure I could even tell you what it looks like. Possibly a regional food like grits? (I just asked DH, he has never seen it before either)
Kim, if you want a nation to change, being so dramatic with change and the choices that aren't really popular are not the ways to go at all. You're going to find a nation resistant and rejectful. A smart person trying to make change does it in a subtle and empowering kind of way.
For example, you tell an obese person trying to reduce that: you can still have a burger, but let's do it this way instead (and show the person how flavorful a burger can be and yet pretty good for them too). You can make a yummy burger in 300 calories or less, use whole grains, fill it in with veggies, and be very happy and satisfied. You don't say sorry, no more burgers for you, but here's a carrot stick and some hummus. Good luck! That will definitely set someone up for failure.
If the school was smart they'd work on their approach and marketing. They have so much power to set a trend but instead they present change in this way, a way that won't work on the mentality of people. Perhaps they truly don't really care about the larger picture.
I am very aware of the obesity problem. Because of the mentality of the people, this kind of dramatic change is not going to be effective. You want to entice people in ways that they respond positively to. People who lose weight and are able to 'maintain' that lifestyle don't do it from junk food to carrot sticks. They learn how to cook smarter. They learn how to measure food, measure calories, and budget between those two aspects.
Burgers can absolutely be healthier and not so bad.
Burgers: Tips, Recipes fo a Lean, Luscious Burger - Healthy Recipes, Nutrition and Cooking Tips to Improve Health or Lose Weight on MedicineNet.com
Besides this, there are quite a lot of better options than hummus at a football game. I don't think hummus by itself is 'weird' but I do think it's 'weird' to eat it a football game for example. I never said we can't have healthier food.. I NEVER said that. I did say that hummus and cheese are not the answer basically. I am all for eating better. If you can give me chips which are healthier at a game, that's fabulous! But for goodness sake don't take everything in exchange for hummus and cheese. There are lots of smarter ways to go about this than what they are doing. And again, if you want to make change, this is not the way to go.
Last edited by myyams; 08-23-2012 at 09:01 AM.
I agree with Kim that "the norm" at at football game is only the norm because that's what we're used to. If all schools switched to hummus and string cheese tomorrow, by the time our kids are grown and have kids in school, they would expect hummus and string cheese at the games and get in a twist if someone wanted to change it. It's entirely based on what you, personally, are used to. Hummus is only a "weird" or off putting choice if you're not used to eating hummus. My 4 year old (who can be picky, like any kid) LOVES hummus because he's been eating it most of his life, and because it has a fun "dip and eat" vibe going. The only objection I have to hummus and string cheese for me personally is, again, that it's cold food, and I don't typically want cold food when it's chilly outside. But I'm also not all up in arms about it because I don't think it's the school's obligation to feed me at all, let alone have foods tailored to my personal tastes or my sense of nostalgia.
-Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)
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HUGE difference between "No more burgers for you" and "no more burgers at this venue" Of course if we were to immediately pull all treats and indulgences away in all situations there would be a lot of dissatisfied people. Thats not what this is.For example, you tell an obese person trying to reduce that: you can still have a burger, but let's do it this way instead (and show the person how flavorful a burger can be and yet pretty good for them too). You can make a yummy burger in 300 calories or less, use whole grains, fill it in with veggies, and be very happy and satisfied. You don't say sorry, no more burgers for you, but here's a carrot stick and some hummus. Good luck! That will definitely set someone up for failure.
Thats crazy. Obviously they care...if they didn't, they would still be pumping in the junk food which is a much better revenue source for them. Really veggies and cheese are not so foreign to people that they can't adjust. I don't understand this coddeling of handing people 'sort of better' hot dogs and 'baked fries' still full of carbs and lacking nutrition as a way to introduce them to healthier eathing habits. Thats not healthy! "less bad for you" is not the same as "healthy". You are simply setting them up with new habits that are mildly better than the old oens...and still over processed and still lacking a lot of valueable nutrition. At what point is it acceptable to make the leap from processed foods and white starches to vegetables. What makes you think that making the leap from a 'Chicken hot dog and baked french fries" to carrot sticks and hummus is any better?If the school was smart they'd work on their approach and marketing. They have so much power to set a trend but instead they present change in this way, a way that won't work on the mentality of people. Perhaps they truly don't really care about the larger picture.
This is simply resistence to actually embracing the types of foods we should strive to be eating. That leap from chicken hot dog to celery is hardly different at all from regular hot dog to celery.
This is really not that dramatic. Its what you buy at a football game once a week. This is not a rigid life alterting plan...its simply what one venue can do to stay consistent in its food policies.I am very aware of the obesity problem. Because of the mentality of the people, this kind of dramatic change is not going to be effective.
This choice is not supposed to carry people to better eating habits all on its own. Education on good eating habits is obviously an appropriate and valueable tool, but not withing the scope of a high school football game. LIke i said before...we live in a saturated market where it is extremely easy to buy unhealthy foods. That article actually also pointed to the fact that education does NOT work well, particularly on its own. People can be taught what is good and waht is bad, but when its too easy to get the bad....much easier than the good, they still go for the bad.You want to entice people in ways that they respond positively to. People who lose weight and are able to 'maintain' that lifestyle don't do it from junk food to carrot sticks. They learn how to cook smarter. They learn how to measure food, measure calories, and budget between those two aspects.
Need proof? Look at the amount we have invested in nutritional education. Look at our obesity statistics.
"Less bad" is not health food. Hamburgers are not health foods....period. Less bad is good and worth of indulgence, but please don't equate them to healthy eating.Burgers can absolutely be healthier and not so bad.
Burgers: Tips, Recipes fo a Lean, Luscious Burger - Healthy Recipes, Nutrition and Cooking Tips to Improve Health or Lose Weight on MedicineNet.com
You just don't like hummus do you? LOL. I've been trying to tell you that where this is happening, hummus is not that unpopular. So maybe you need to take regional differences into account.Besides this, there are quite a lot of better options than hummus at a football game. I don't think hummus by itself is 'weird' but I do think it's 'weird' to eat it a football game for example.
And you called it over regulation to be offering these things. Which indicates to me an objection against the lack of tradtional and unhealthy options. Unless by over-regulating you mean specifically you do not like being giving hummus as an option.I never said we can't have healthier food.. I NEVER said that. I did say that hummus and cheese are not the answer basically.
I think you and i have a different defintion of 'healthy' To me, a move away from over processed foods heavy in starch is healthy and is what our country really needs to improve our problem.I am all for eating better. If you can give me chips which are healthier at a game, that's fabulous! But for goodness sake don't take everything in exchange for hummus and cheese. There are lots of smarter ways to go about this than what they are doing. And again, if you want to make change, this is not the way to go.
You teach an obsese person that eating baked chips when you want a snack is healthy...i think you've failed.
I think instead if an obsese person and the rest of america instead learns that, chips are an unhealthy treat to indulge in once in a while and not every venue is going to hand them out to you...and that fresher unproccessed foods are better and more available than the chips...then you've succeded.
I am a total believer that the junk has to become LESS easily available. And what we *should* be eating more easily available. So to me, this makes tons of sense.
Do i think its something that *had* to be done? No, not really. I just can't understand the criticism. Well, i can understand "Aww man, i liked my hot dog and coke at a football game" But thats about it.
I think what happens is we tell all these little places they don't have to contribute to fixing the problem...because they are little and obviously don't have a huge effect on their own. But in reality, if more places did the same thing, maybe we'd finally be seeing results. Maybe if people simply had significantly less opportunities to grab the Pepsi and fries we'd see a difference.
All the baked chips on the market and nutritional education and chicken hot dogs and whatever else we have....seems to be getting us nowhere on its own. Time for something new.
Last edited by KimPossible; 08-23-2012 at 12:25 PM.
Just an afterthought, and really summarizes what i'm trying to say above, in case people are thinking "She writes too much"
I think for me, the idea of teaching that different and slightly better versions of the same food is a good and positive choice has been around for a long time. These are little changes, little changes that have been available for a while. We cling to them because we want to take a baby step that still feels like the comforting junk food we enjoy eating so much.
well i don't think it works....its been going on for too long. Our obesity problem is at an alarming point. We don't neeed 'little' steps, i think its pretty obvious we need something dramatic. And it is really concerning to me that this change is considered too dramatic. I don't think that bodes well for changing our outlook on food and what healthy eating actually is.
When we teach people to eat a different kind of chip, and different kind of hot dog or burger, they don't seem to be making that leap t eating what we are actually supposed to be eating. And of course not, because those things are still worlds different from the right stuff.
I think a few of you are forgetting that this is a *school* football game. This is not changing your food options at the Super Bowl or at your local fair, it's only extending a school nutrition policy to include the football games. Maybe on cold days they'll offer vegetarian chili or burritos made with grilled chicken? Hot cocoa made with fat free milk might also be an acceptable cold weather option. The fact is that eating healthier at school can and does make dramatic change in what kids eat at home, and as Kim has so eloquently said already, we need dramatic change to keep this next generation from being even more unhealthy than ours. I've seen this in action. Our school has a garden and every single kid gets to garden at least once a week. My DH is one of the volunteer garden teachers, and he takes our camp stove once in a while to cook things the kids help harvest, and we send home veggies with some of the kids once in a while, too. I've had parents come up to me and tell me that their kids have asked for kale & chard & fava beans because they tried those things at school & liked them & wanted to eat them at home. At least half a dozen families in our school that I'm aware of have started home garden projects as a direct result of our school garden program; they didn't think they had the room for gardening, or enough sun, or that their kids would ever eat those things.
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