Is Free Birth Control like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor? - Page 11
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Thread: Is Free Birth Control like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Can I ask why there is such hate and bitterness in relation to the church? How are they hurting you? If you do not want to go to a church that is against BC then don't. If you do not want to work at said church then don't. Most churches in this country (with the exception of mega churches) Have one pastor, a secratary if they are lucky and possibly an assistant pastor. It is highly unlikely that someone who did not agree with a church would be working there. It is not like it is a high paying job.
    Many of the largest hospitals in the U.S. are run by the Catholic Church. They employee thousands of doctors, nurses, lawyers, and administrators who are very well paid, and a good portion of them are not Catholic. And even something like 90% of Catholics have used birth control and about 60% of Catholics actually support this legislation, so the fact that their church is still opposing it is ridiculous.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with any person's religious beliefs, and it has everything to do with a very large employer refusing to follow the law. That's all it is.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

  2. #102
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    I live in a small town. We have a Catholic church which I technically belong to. We do have the head priest and Sister comes from another area but does not live on campus. Only the priests do. Of course, since celibate they do not need birth control but who am I to say that Sister R doesn't need it for medical purposes (she probably doesn't though she is probably in her 70s now).

    But they also employ maintenance person and the secretary who have not abided by the sacrament of being a priest/nun. Yes, they probably do belong the Catholic church but perhaps their spouse does not.

    Again, Catholic hospitals employ thousands and many are not Catholic. Why is the Catholic church imposing their beliefs on their benefits. They aren't saying here's your paycheck and you cannot go out and use it to buy 1000.00 worth of food because that's gluttony and that's a sin.

    And to clarify, the CC is against forms of birth control outside of natural family planning. It was to make sure we had billions of kids to keep paying into the Catholic church

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    I am not Catholic and do not know all of the ins and outs of how their hospital works. I do think it is a slippery slop to say the church has no rights. My biggest fear is for the government to come in and say what someone can and can not preach on. It is not a huge stretch to say, ok, we pass that homosexual marriage can be. Then we say, Pastors you can not preach against homosexuality or say that it is wrong. And while we are at it, you can not preach from the Bible because we are calling it a Hate book and Hate books are not allowed. You can say that would never happen, but that is what would happen if you were able to come in say that churches do not have any rights.

    A possible solution might be something like the ADA (American's With Disability Act). It deals with all kinds of accommodation for different handicaps. There are exceptions for businesses that have less than 15 (I think) employees. That would cover the churches, but allow for the large hospitals.

    ~Bonita~

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    No, its like the government telling the church... you have to buy this Twix for your employee even if eating chocolate is against your religious beliefs.
    A better analogy would be that the government passed a law saying that all employers have to provide a snack allowance for all employees. The employee has the right to choose whatever snack she wants, following her own snacking belief system. The employer's belief system (and again, as a non-human entity, the business simply can not have a belief system) should not be allowed to override the employee's right to choose her own snack with her own allowance.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

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    I don't know else to go with this other than we disagree. I am pretty sure even if we went 50 pages long we are still going to disagree.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I am not Catholic and do not know all of the ins and outs of how their hospital works. I do think it is a slippery slop to say the church has no rights. My biggest fear is for the government to come in and say what someone can and can not preach on. It is not a huge stretch to say, ok, we pass that homosexual marriage can be. Then we say, Pastors you can not preach against homosexuality or say that it is wrong. And while we are at it, you can not preach from the Bible because we are calling it a Hate book and Hate books are not allowed. You can say that would never happen, but that is what would happen if you were able to come in say that churches do not have any rights.

    A possible solution might be something like the ADA (American's With Disability Act). It deals with all kinds of accommodation for different handicaps. There are exceptions for businesses that have less than 15 (I think) employees. That would cover the churches, but allow for the large hospitals.
    Telling pastors that they can't preach against homesexuality would be infringing on their personal right to freedom of religion, and censoring the bible would be infringing on that bible owner's personal right to freedom of speech & expression. Those things are not going to happen in this country, ever. We're not talking about infringing on anyone's personal right to anything. We're talking about a business needing to follow the law.

    And you're wrong about ADA, the only entities exempt from that are certain religious organizations (to preserve historic churches) and private clubs (who are welcome to exclude anyone they want) and, in some cases, Native American reservations. Pretty much all other businesses, large or small, even sole proprietors, have to comply with ADA if they serve the public.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I don't know else to go with this other than we disagree. I am pretty sure even if we went 50 pages long we are still going to disagree.
    I just keep thinking that maybe one of these times one of us is going to be able to phrase this in such a way that makes you see the complete absurdity of the Catholic Church's stance. There was a debate not too long ago where enough people made enough good arguments that I pretty much changed my mind on it. I can't remember which debate it was, though.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

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    Goodness....we let the Westboro Baptist Church exist in this country. I highly doubt we're stopping anyone from expressing their views on the pulpit. They might just find themselves with less of an audience at some point that is all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post

    And you're wrong about ADA, the only entities exempt from that are certain religious organizations (to preserve historic churches) and private clubs (who are welcome to exclude anyone they want) and, in some cases, Native American reservations. Pretty much all other businesses, large or small, even sole proprietors, have to comply with ADA if they serve the public.
    I took a class in college on Deaf law. All employers are required to provide reasonable accommodation for its employees unless it creates undue hardship. Doctors offices have to pay for their patients to have interpreters and so on. Companies that have less than 15 employees are exempt. There are probably other parts of the Act that are different, but I am positive that this is how it works for needing to provide an interpreter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I just keep thinking that maybe one of these times one of us is going to be able to phrase this in such a way that makes you see the complete absurdity of the Catholic Church's stance. There was a debate not too long ago where enough people made enough good arguments that I pretty much changed my mind on it. I can't remember which debate it was, though.
    If you remember back to the begining of the debate, I said it should be all or nothing concerning providing BC. Either pay the fine and not provide insurance or provide everything. What I can not agree on is that churches do not have rights.

    ~Bonita~

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    Companies with less than 15 employees might be exempt from providing accommodations for their own employees, but they might not be exempt from providing accessibility to the public. And it's possible that California has stronger requirements than your state. I just know that my neighborhood lost the cutest little book store, which was operated by a sole proprietor, because someone claimed ADA incompliance when he couldn't get his wheelchair over the front step. A small local diner, which is family run & has less than 15 employees, is facing closure because they can't widen the walkway between the counter & booths enough to accommodate his wheelchair. We might lose a hardware store, too, because this one wheelchair-bound attorney wants to pick out his own screws instead of telling the nice lady who runs the place what he needs, which works fine for plenty of parents with big strollers that don't fit down the aisles. He tried to close the ice cream shop because he couldn't get out the side door if an emergency blocked the front door; that was stopped although I'm sure it cost the owner a ton of money in legal fees. This is a huge issue in my neighborhood, and our local papers have all said it's because ADA accessibility is applicable to all businesses that serve the public, no matter their size.

    And I'm fine with the Catholic Church being fined heavily for refusing to provide the legally-mandated coverage for its employees. What I'm not fine with is them getting an exemption from the mandate.
    The number of U.S. states in which a person can marry the person they love regardless of gender: 30 and counting!

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