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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I don't think you can charge them with inciting a riot unless the film encouraged them to riot. The film itself didn't encourage them to commit violence that was their reaction to it. I think to qualify as inciting violence you would have to tell people in the film to do something violent.

    According to the article posted, it doesn't have to actually tell them to riot, if the intent is to cause a riot.

    Finally, much 1st Amendment jurisprudence concerns speech explicitly advocating violence, such as calls to resist arrest, or videos explaining bomb-making techniques. But words don't have to urge people to commit violence in order to be subject to limits, says Lewis. "If the result is violence, and that violence was intended, then it meets the standard."

    Indeed, Justice Holmes' original example, shouting "fire" in a theater, is not a call to arms.
    I'm not an expert on the law, so I can only assume this article is true. However, I would say that making the movie, dubbing it in Arabic, and sending it to the Arab news stations is pretty close to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater with the intended purpose of causing chaos.
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    According to the article posted, it doesn't have to actually tell them to riot, if the intent is to cause a riot.

    I'm not an expert on the law, so I can only assume this article is true. However, I would say that making the movie, dubbing it in Arabic, and sending it to the Arab news stations is pretty close to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater with the intended purpose of causing chaos.
    Did it cause violence in the U.S.? How can you apply laws in the U.S. based on things that didn't even happen in this country?
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    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    According to the article posted, it doesn't have to actually tell them to riot, if the intent is to cause a riot.



    I'm not an expert on the law, so I can only assume this article is true. However, I would say that making the movie, dubbing it in Arabic, and sending it to the Arab news stations is pretty close to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater with the intended purpose of causing chaos.
    Agreed. One of the tests for prohibited speech is likelihood, as stated in the article. What was the likelihood that releasing the video immediately prior to Sept 11th would incite violence?

    ...only speech that has the intent and the likelihood of inciting imminent violence or lawbreaking can be limited.

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    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Did it cause violence in the U.S.? How can you apply laws in the U.S. based on things that didn't even happen in this country?
    Has it caused violence in the US? I'd like to know. If it hasn't already I would be shocked if it didn't. It's not like radical Muslims haven't terrorized Americans on US soil before.
    Last edited by ClairesMommy; 09-19-2012 at 04:19 PM.

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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    The embassy is considered US property. The same applies to every embassy in every country. Criminal acts on embassy property are subject to the same laws and judiciary as if they were perpetrated in the embassy's home country.
    Agreed. Also, the actions taken to incite violence (making the movie, sending it to Arabic news stations) were done on American soil by Americans, so I assume that they would still fall under US law.
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    How can you blame the idiot that made the video? Yes, it was stupid, but he had every right to say whatever he wanted. Since when is it illegal to speak against Islam, but perfectly fine for anyone and everyone to curse Christianity? Christianity is so forbidden it has to be taken out of every public place, but heaven forbid you say anything against Muslims because it might hurt they feelings and make them throw a temper tantrum.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Agreed. Also, the actions taken to incite violence (making the movie, sending it to Arabic news stations) were done on American soil by Americans, so I assume that they would still fall under US law.
    That is right. The law the protects Americans to have the right to free speech and the right to not have to like a particular religion. Not the other countries laws saying that everyone must be Muslim.

    This is what has caused me to disdain how Obama handled the situation so much. He is putting the rights and wants of another country above the rights of Americans.

    ~Bonita~

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    I agree with Bonita. Why on Earth are we going to pretend like this video is any worse than the millions of offensive videos ever made? Because there is one group (albeit a large one)of people who react violently to being offended? I call Bull****. That is not what our country is about. If we allow *any* govenrment including our own to prosecute them and inact the punishment on them for the reaction this video received, we fail as a country.

    It doesn't/didn't cause violence. The people being violent cause violence.

    eta-So if I said "Hit me" to someone and they did so (under the other logic) than it would be my fault if someone actually hit me because I incited the violence?
    Last edited by wlillie; 09-19-2012 at 04:34 PM.

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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    That is right. The law the protects Americans to have the right to free speech and the right to not have to like a particular religion. Not the other countries laws saying that everyone must be Muslim.

    This is what has caused me to disdain how Obama handled the situation so much. He is putting the rights and wants of another country above the rights of Americans.
    It is US law that says freedom of speech does not protect you if you are inciting violence. I'm not arguing that the film makers should be turned over to Egypt to face their laws, I'm saying that I think they violated US law. Again, you can argue whether that *should* be the law in the US, that might make an interesting debate. But from what I can tell from the article, that currently *is* the law, and it sounds like they violated it.

    Bonita, I asked you about Obama's response in another thread, but then realized I didn't want to derail that thread so I didn't go into it with you. For the life of me, I can't figure out what you think is so bad about his response. He condemns, unequivically, the violence in Egypt. I don't know what else you expect him to say!
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    It is US law that says freedom of speech does not protect you if you are inciting violence. I'm not arguing that the film makers should be turned over to Egypt to face their laws, I'm saying that I think they violated US law. Again, you can argue whether that *should* be the law in the US, that might make an interesting debate. But from what I can tell from the article, that currently *is* the law, and it sounds like they violated it.
    It is questionable if the violence is even related to the movie. Seems awful coincidental that it happend on 9/11 don't you think?

    Blame the movie.

    Blame the movie.

    Blame the movie.

    Even though "the movie" was on YouTube for months prior to the collective indignation of thousands of Middle Eastern Islamists all coming together on the eleventh anniversary of September 11th (through a wild coincidence, no doubt), we are being told by our government and our media overlords that we must blame the movie.

    You see, if we blame the movie for the burning of our foreign outposts and the brutal murders of four Americans (including our Libyan ambassador who was reportedly raped), we won't blame the burners and the looters and the murderers and the rapists.

    You see, if we blame the movie for the Middle East burning, we won't blame the Islamists who are doing the burning and looting and raping and murdering.

    Which means we won't further connect the dots and blame Obama's failed Middle East policy; the Obama Doctrine of backing away from the region and allowing events to unfold as America stands idly by -- as the Islamists in the Muslim Brotherhood grab hold of power in Egypt, a country that was once our largest and closest ally.

    Blame the filmmaker.

    Hunt him.

    Out him.

    Demonize him.
    Anti-Islam Filmmaker Donated Million Dollars To Obama Campaign
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